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Thoughts...So Far

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by PackerDNA, Sep 20, 2014.

  1. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Just knockin' around some thoughts while not too patiently waiting for kickoff....

    - I don't want to put the big kabosh on anything, but so far, things have been much better on the injury front. For me, last season was a "I wonder what if", "what could have been" season, a season completely destroyed by injuries. Let's hope the relative good health things continue.

    -Rodgers showed flashes of his brilliance last week, but to me hasn't been quite the same guy through week 2. Am I sounding the alarm that something's wrong here- outside of taking sacks after having 10 seconds to run or throw it away- no. There's a readjustment period , a get comfortable with your receivers thing going on here. Gone are Jennings, Jones, and Driver. A lot of new, young and unproven guys in their place. TE is in flux. Injuries disrupting the O line haven't helped. When things settle down and get sorted out, I'm expecting a whole lotta 'wow' moments from ARod.

    - Speaking of the guys tasked with catching the ball, someone not named Nelson is gonna need to step up soon. Teams that overly rely on one WR generally don't get far. I'm wondering just how good this WR corps really is. I see way too many times that guys are having trouble getting seperation, much less getting open. I'm specifically looking at you, Randall Cobb.

    -About Cobb. I don't care for comparisons to Harvin. Cobb isn't in Harvin's class as an athlete or playmaker. But I would like to see the Packers do more to find a way to move him around and get him the space and matchups that would allow him to be more of the playmaker he is.

    -I'm under no illusions about the defense, but maybe I have more confidence in what it will be than others. They're not going to be a great, dominating unit as currently constructed. Too weak up the middle; NT and ILB are below average, and Burnett is 'JAG'. But it's a work in progress. New guys, guys learning new roles, everyone trying to gel. The pass rush possibilities in particular have me excited. If they can get more turnovers and just be a 'top 12' D, than if the O plays even near it's capabilities, than we're in good shape.

    - Interesting article at JSO on TT. Over the years, I've become pro Ted after starting out more on the 'tightwad Ted' side of things. But I remain in the 'there's still something missing, but I can't quite put my finger on it' camp. When you have greatness at QB such as the Packers have had for so long- 16 seasons of Favre, year 7 as a starter for Rodgers- you should be filling up the trophy case at a faster clip.
    The bottom line for me is that in the future, Ted needs to be more to hell with it, we've got to be more aggressive to get over the hump while I've still got a future HOF QB in his prime. It's not that he can't or won't. Woodson, Peppers, the trade up for Matthews were great and aggressive moves that put those arguments to rest. But they're too far and few in between. At the end of the day, it's about winning Lombardi's. If you're happy with double figure wins , division titles and making the playoffs every year- but not sniffing another SB again- that's fine. But when an opportunity to get impact, difference making players even if the cost is deemed heavy, either through trade ups in the draft or free agency, then do it. I think maybe for lack of a better term that there may be too much 'paralysis by analysis' in such decisions.
    The Packers have too many 'nice' players on the roster, and too many that they hang on to-IMO- too long in the hope they realize the potential that they hoped they'd have.
    Take away 2010, and in the TT/MM era, this team has 2 playoff wins. One of those against a shaky Vikings team that basically played without a QB. We could end up with over a consecutive years quarter of a century of Favre and Rodgers at QB and only 2 SB wins to show for it. To me there should be at least five when it's all said and done.
    Just go for it, Ted.

    -After the Hawks game , the familiar cries of 'it's just one game', 'it's still early' were out in force. I see the merit in that. After all , IMO, it takes about the first quarter of any season for things to really start to shake out- but look at the rest of it. That 'one game' will almost certainly be the reason the game will be in Seattle if we see them again in the playoffs. And the gap between the two teams head to head gave me a long pause.
    But judging from last weeks results, it' gonna be a wild, unpredictable season, so I'm just gonna settle down and enjoy the ride.
     
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  2. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    You totally freaked me out when you said waiting on kickoff, i was like what?!?!? Is there some sort of freak Saturday game I was unaware of...

    Now with that out of the way...

    Injuries - It seems like a lot of injuries all across the league so far this year, i wouldn't say we have been blessed on the injury front so far but it could have been worse.

    Rodgers - Rodgers is awesome so take what i have to say with a grain of salt but this guy could be even better if he learned to take what the defense gives him instead of holding the ball so long looking for a 20+ yard pass play. Favre threw interceptions, Rodgers takes sacks, granted the sacks don't hurt as much as the stupid interceptions but I think Rodgers unwillingness to take what he defense gives him more often holds him back from the potential of being considered the GOAT.

    Receivers:

    Cobb - What?!?!?!? the guy has 3 touchdowns in two games. All 5'10 190lbs. of him found separation in the end zone twice last week. Most 5' 10" receivers do not make a living in the red zone. Cobb is just fine, saying anything otherwise is just silly. Right now his averages = 88 catches 800 yards and 24 touchdowns. I don't know about you but I would take that every single year and could care less about the low yardage.

    Jordy: I think it is time for people to realize that Jordy is an elite receiver, saying anything contrary to the fact is just idiotic. As far as NFL receivers goes the pecking order is:

    Megatron - freak of nature in class all be himself.

    The Elite - this is a group of about 10 receivers that any team in the league would be thrilled to have on their team and that includes Jordy, Marshall, Dez, AJ Green, Thomas, Andre Johnson, and a few more that would be debatable.

    Jordy has been lighting it up for 3 years now, people need to start realizing how freaking good this man has been at catching the ball. If there is one player in all of the Packers organization that has had a hand in making Rodgers "look good" it is Jordy. Just think about that for a second.

    Adams - I think this kid showed quite a bit last week. He seized an opportunity give to him after Boykin's failures and never let go, and while it is to early to tell for sure, the things he showed last week all point to a very good looking receiver.

    Defense - it sucks, period. It is soft and weak, there is no fire or passion on that defense at all. They get pushed around way to much without pushing back, it is honestly getting sickening to watch. I think the defense can be turned around but I do not see it happening until Hawk, Jones and Dom are gone. I hope I am wrong.
     
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  3. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Never said Jordy wasn't elite- I think he is. As for Cobb, 3 short TDs. That's fine , but the multiple threat big play dimension isn't there yet. Too many times he's handled in the pass game.
    Agree with you about Rodgers. I'd add that I think he's too risk averse at times.
    Dom made some good in game adjustments last week, but if for no other reason than things are going stale, I think this is his last season as Packers DC.
    Adams and the other young WR's- let's see over time. But IMO before the season, I thought he'd pass Boykin as the #3 WR by midseason.
     
  4. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    The Jordy comment was not directed towards you. That was me just venting as I have even seen people on this board argue that he is not elite, which is just ridiculous as he has been elite for the past 3 years and for some reason completely ignored in those discussions on who is elite.

    Anyone who says he is not, is just delusional and it is frankly a travesty that he has not been voted tot he pro bowl at all in the last 3 years desipte being a top ten yardage receiver in 2 of those 3 seasons.

    I will admit that good adjustments were make in the 2nd half of that game last week.

    I also agree it would be good to get Cobb in space a little more often but so far he is producing pretty well.
     
  5. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    All good, Ogsponge. I agree with you on Jordy 100 %. I don't know what the guy has to do. This is the first year I've seen anything from the media that even mentions him as 'possibly being a top 10' WR in the league.
     
  6. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I dunno why but the post reminded me of this....


    [​IMG]


    Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind." Basically, it's made up of two separate words, mank and ind. What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.

    If you're a young Mafia gangster out on your first date, I bet it's real embarrassing if someone tries to kill you.

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    For mad scientists who keep brains in jars, here's a tip: why not add a slice of lemon to each jar, for freshness?

    If you ever crawl inside an old hollow log and go to sleep, and while you're in there some guys come and seal up both ends and then put it on a truck and take it to another city, boy, I don't know what to tell you.

    Children need encouragement. If a kid gets an answer right, tell him it was a lucky guess. That way he develops a good, lucky feeling.

    If they ever come up with a swashbuckling school, I think one of the courses should be Laughing, Then Jumping Off Something.

    To me, it's always a good idea to always carry two sacks of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?," you can say, "Sorry, got these sacks."

    It's funny that pirates were always going around searching for treasure, and they never realized that the real treasure was the fond memories they were creating.
     
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  7. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Receivers will be fine. Cobb has been good. Cobb is still coming back from the broken leg. Give him some more time to get comfortable. Adams has been very impressive early. Both in attitude and in performance, I think he will be a very good one for us. TE Rodgers looks like he has lots of upside. It is a very difficult position to be impactful early. Think about it; a WR typically takes a year or two to learn routes and coverages; a OL takes a few years to learn blocking scheme and reading the defense. A TE has to learn both.

    As far as the defense goes, I see that they are seriously under-performing. The only ones who are confused by Dom Capers scheme are the Packer defensive players themselves. I believe that the Packer talent level on defense is near that of Seattle. Of course, they don't play nearly to that level. I see poor tackling; players not where they should probably be; limited enthusiasm; and a lack of creativity.

    On offense, I don't see good game planning. When the Packers were getting throttled in Seattle, they should have diversified the playbook. Screens, draws, and shuttle passes can all be used to spread the ball around and cause the Seattle defense to adjust and adapt. I have no problem with avoiding Sherman. We put our least talented WR out there and took out their best DB. That is a no-brainer. For me, we should have gone downfield with some long passes. With the aggressive nature of the Seattle DBs, I think we could have moved the ball with the PI calls. A first down is a first down.

    FA acquisition is not the answer. It ruins more teams than it improves. We can win with what we draft.

    To improve this team, if I was TT, is I would look at replacing the coaching staff. I would give MM a chance to fire Capers and replace. If he refuses, I would look at hiring either Bevell or Quinn from Seattle to run the entire show. I don't think that MM has progressed as a coach much in the last few years. The fact that MM has not been extended after TT got his extension, make me wonder if this option is on the table in TTs mind.
     
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  8. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Ugh...What?
    Anyways, great post. I'm gonna have to check out this Jack Handey guy. Seems like a very wise man.
     
  9. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    AmishMafia; it may just be an impression on my part, but I agree with your thoughts on the O. They seem too...vanilla at times. Shake things up and get your opponent stepping and fetching more.
    One or two big free agent signings now and then could be the difference between one and done and a SB.
     
  10. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    It was a recurring SNL bit back when SNL was better and just before it started going downhill.
    There might be uploads to YouTube.
     
  11. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    More often it is the difference of 10-6 with no FAs or 3 years of 8-8 with the FA.

    Talent is not the problem for the Packers.
     
  12. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    google it. 100s of sites. my 12 year old is going threw them right now. still have not found my favorite.

    "Its a sad thing when a family is ripped apart by something as simple as a pack of wild dogs."
     
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  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    People like me!
     
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  14. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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  15. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    It's no surprise that we are in a rebuilding stage after losing 3 starting WR in the last 3 years. At 1-1. considering the sloppiness of our play, the time of the year and our opponent strength so far.. Were right on time.
    I'm not sure why anyone would even remotely doubt AR after the biggest franchise comeback since Don "magik man" was under Center.
    The resin has been applied.. The glue will bond with time..you can't rush the process no matter how hard you squeeze. Let it dry
    Davante Adams looked really good for a rookie. He caught everything thrown his way in his debut, but more importantly consistently converted on 1st downs and was inches from scoring a TD with his foot in the enzone he showed his athleticism and instinct by trying to tag the cone. Randall Cobb got the credit seconds later, but I contend that drive was all Davante. By the way..watching him from that enzone live.. Let me tell you he looks really strong and I don't care who brings up combine results, he repeatedly burned the Jets secondary with bread and butter. I think he takes the #3 spot by season end
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  16. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    Haha. Yeah we don't need to miss a game! We gotta find a way to get Davante in the mix more. He impressed me as the vote for "most exceeded expectation" that thing you said about Passing Boykin as our #3, I swear I said the exact same thing before reading if but I said be season end. He's much much stronger looking live in person I was in south enzone behind the goalposts and was floored by his presence. He's a starting caliber WR
     
  17. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    I gotta say Amish, this is the first time I can remember you actually saying anything negative about anyone having anything to do with the Packers. I am sure that is not truly the case and i have not been around all that long. For some reason my mind had grouped you withe "Packer apologists".

    Anyway, that was not meant to start an argument or any kind of dig on you, just mentioning it. I too am wondering if "something" might be going on with the whole MM situation as it does seem odd that MM has not gotten an extension yet. However, I don't know that we should read too much into that. Being a HC in the NFL is an over the top stressful and exhausting job. Perhaps MM does not know if he wants to continue coaching after this year?

    But I really do believe that regardless of this year's outcome, this team really needs to move on from Capers.
     
  18. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

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    If there's one thing Ill take away from football, it's that it is a game of momentum. Both at the macro and micro level. MM is largely responsible for the good AND the bad. That's part of the territory of being a leader. Although we've had 3 playoff births in 3 years that didn't go far.. MM is one of the most and may finish the most winningest coaches in franchise history. Were talking Superbowl era here.. The last time we finished a season without a division title was 2010 and we actual were both Conference and League Champions that year.
    I read an article recently where MM was rated the top coach in the NFL by his peers who know more about football than, Im guessing , more than you and I put together
    I do agree with Your Capers assessment he's running low on excuses
    We either make top 15 Defensively, or tell him sharpen his resume cause he's gonna need it. Id buy Capers a picture of a noose for his cozy skybox as a reminder to do well or else! Lol
     
  19. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    On Rodgers, there are two things often said about him that aren't totally consistent. He's averse to risk, and he tries to extend plays. I take the first to mean he doesn't like to throw into tight coverage. I take the second to mean that he tries to string plays out when nobody's open to try and wait for someone to get open so he can make a big play out of it.

    I compare Rodgers to the other elite QBs and here's what I see about them:

    Brady and Manning: masters of the short passing game. They try to keep the defense off balance by mixing plenty of short stuff with their down-field passes. Both have a quick release. I don't know how much the Packer offense uses the quick pass, but it seems to be a lot less than the Pats or the Broncos.

    Brees: The guy is not afraid to chuck it, and he will. They say Rodgers hates INT and would rather take a sack than be intercepted. It makes perfect sense, but does Rodgers play it too conservative? Brees has had pretty good pass protection, probably better than Rodgers, but he is not afraid to throw it. He has more INTs than Rodgers, but has he really hurt his team because of that, or have the big plays he's generated, the thousands of yards off-set that?

    Each QB has his own style, they're comfortable with how they play. Could Rodgers benefit from being a little more like those guys when it comes to quick passes or taking a chance? It's just too hard to conclude that. I'm sure many of us would LIKE it if he was that way a little more, but Rodgers may have developed his style over the years and changing it might not be so easy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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  21. PackerfaninCarolina

    PackerfaninCarolina Cheesehead

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    Well, another reason Brees chucks that ball is because he has Jimmy Grahm out there who causes linebackers and DBs to lose him in coverage, and then he ends up dragging them across the goal line. Right now since we don't have Finley, we need a TE who can be a go-to guy and get the job done. TEs are a huge asset in this game, as we saw with Antonio Gates last Sunday.

    I think the panic buttons I've seen pushed on the offense and Mike McCarthy are highly unjustified though. Yeah, it did take Rodgers some time to get into rhythm last week against the Jets, but just the same we knew he would eventually. I feel the O is out of the hangover and ready to get back to business against Detroit, so overall I'd say I feel good about this game.
     
  22. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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  23. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    You forgot about last year's comeback in Dallas pretty fast.
     
  24. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    McCarthy has repeatedly said that he hopes that he's the halfway point of his coaching career, so I don't think he has any plans to step down after this season.
     
  25. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I don’t see the inconsistency. IMO “risk averse” for a QB means mostly don’t turn the ball over. As long as he’s careful with the ball when extending plays, he’s being risk averse.
    - - - - -
    I criticized Rodgers for holding the ball too long on a couple of plays against the Jets, and I’ve criticized him for holding the ball too long on occasion in the past, and therefore being responsible for his share of sacks. But there is a caveat to any criticism I make of Rodgers; my expectations of him are incredibly high and that of course isn’t based upon potential but on past performance: I believe he can perform as the best QB in the league. (Jason Wilde recently said Rodgers admits he hasn’t been his usual accurate self.) Even the best players have off days and since I have no question whatever about his dedication, preparation, and will to win I accept he, like every other player isn’t always at his best. I actually appreciate Rodgers taking a sack rather than throwing the ball up for grabs, but on occasion when he has four or more seconds to throw the ball, IMO he should throw the ball away rather than take a sack. On one of the sacks deep in his own territory against the Jets, I believe he had 7.5 seconds, taking a sack in that circumstance doesn’t make any sense IMO. But again, in the overall scheme of things this is a very small criticism.
    I agree the Packers defense was very poor tackling against Seattle (and in the past) but that problem got better against the Jets. And they get fooled too often losing containment. As far as creativity goes, I think that’s overrated. Look at Seattle – how “creative” are they on D? They don’t have to be that creative because they have better talent than the Packers. For example, of the two defenses, which has a better chance getting consistent pressure rushing four? I don’t think that’s even a close question. And regarding Capers, how much “better” was he as a DC when he had Jenkins, Collins, and Woodson? Don’t get me wrong, the tackling problems, the “communication” problems, the missed assignment problems are on Capers and his staff. And if the defense this year isn’t significantly better, he should – and I think will – be gone. BTW, fellow Packers fans, if that happens how would you feel about Winston Moss as the new DC?
     
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