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Thoughts about Favre v. Manning

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by mrsd, Oct 4, 2007.

  1. mrsd

    mrsd Cheesehead

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    Someone sent me a link to this article from www.crazyfootballchick.com ...

    Well, Brett Favre did it. Throwing his 421st touchdown, he topped Dan Marino’s record for the most passing TDs in a career. Then he added one for good luck.


    Marino held the record for 13 years, as he himself pointed out when announcing Favre’s accomplishment. But it’s already been decided that Favre won’t hold it nearly that long.


    No, even Favre knows it. Peyton Manning is already on track to break that record – and just about every other one held by a quarterback. Well, other than rushing yards or TDs. I mean, he can’t do everything.


    Now I like Peyton as much as anyone. I have a Sprint phone. I use my MasterCard. I think it’s all priceless. So I’m not trying to take anything away from him. But you can’t ignore the fact that he plays at least eight games every year in a dome. It never rains, never snows, there’s never a wind gust, and it’s always 72 degrees.


    The only way Favre plays in 72 degrees is if you add up the temperature three weeks in a row.


    So let’s give some credit where credit is due. In what is arguably the toughest climate in the NFL, Favre has set a record for passing TDs. In driving snow, temperatures below zero, and balls that were frozen so solid that they are as hard as golf balls, he has thrown more touchdowns than anyone in history.


    And when Peyton passes him, the NFL should note that difference, because it absolutely makes a difference. You can see it plain as day on your Sony HDTV.
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Cheesehead

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    Records are not the measure of Greatness.

    Peyton Manning still MAY be a GREAT QB when he is finished -- there is NO DOUBT that Brett Favre is one.

    Further, No on knows what will happen. This is the NFL where a career could end on the next play at any moment.

    Part (and only part) of Brett's GREATNESS is his ironman toughness that has resulted in him showing up every play and every game for so long.

    That book is still out on Peyton.
     
  3. rabidgopher04

    rabidgopher04 Cheesehead

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    If Favre had those same weapons around him for the bulk of his career he would have broken several of those records sooner.

    Manning has had the luxury of a dome and a great supporting cast. Favre, not so much.
     
  4. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

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    Manning is a good QB, the only thing I wished is he would shuddup on the line..LOL...but in noway will he ever be the better then Brett Favre IMO...The had Brett as a top 5 QB but he was behind McNab IMO he should be before McNab.
     
  5. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    If Favre plays 3 or 4 more years, he'll put all the records out of reach by everyone, including P Manning. He definitely has several years left in his tank. The way he's playing this year, MM just might beg him to stay.
     
  6. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    Last time I checked GB only plays a few games a year where the temp is really bad. Mainly the December games. There is typically 4 games in Dec and 2 of them are on the road.
    As far as snowy conditions, that can aid an offense. (The wind is another matter.) I remember a snowy Monday night game in Denver when Lynn Dickey had about 4 TD's because the receiver knew when he was going to make his break and the defender had to wait and would sometimes slip trying to catch up to the receiver.
    There is no doubt that Manning has many advantages over Favre playing in a dome and playing with a better supporting cast over their careers. I think the Colts have been more of a pass orientated team while GB has tried to feature the run more often than not.
    Payton too has shown that he is an iron man in the making. In his previous 9 season he started everyone of the games. That is 144 games plus the 4 this season.
    In his 1st 9 full seasons, Manning's average is 31 TD's a year. Brett's average from 1993 (season 3 when he started all 16 games) thru 2001 was 29.9.
    If Manning can stay healthy and keep doing what he has done in the past he will have earned the TD title. Manning's achievements do not diminish what Brett has done what so ever.
     
  7. Timmons

    Timmons Cheesehead

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    How old is Manning and how far behind Brett is he in the wins and TD records?
     
  8. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    He is 31.
    He has 283 TD's to Brett's 422.
    Wins will take a little more time

    Wins- Manning 96 Brett 151 (Manning has gotten 12 wins or more in the past 4 seasons. Has had less than 10 wins only twice and one of them was his rookie year.)
     
  9. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    Good post mrsd and welcome to the forum. :beer:
     
  10. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    even if cold and snowy weather is not a factor in GB...The point of the article was that Manning gets AT LEAST 8 games in a dome and Brett only gets 2 for sure every year..Wind and rain play a HUGE factor in outside games..



    Just like kicking...

    Where did Longwell and Adam V end up and what was their reasons?
     
  11. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    bottom line... they are both great quarterbacks... maybe the 2 best ever when its all said and done.

    it comes down to this. and taking nothing away from either of them.

    If you want a quarterback... you select Peyton Manning.

    If you want a football player... you select Brett Favre.
     
  12. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Statement of the year... exactly.
     
  13. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    Yes it does. I was only try and point out that it is not 8 games of bad weather. Whatever the weather may be. Rain, wind snow or extreme cold.
    And look at the reverse. Dome teams tend to do poorly outside late int he year. It is a credit to Manning that he can overcome those obsticals.
    Like Packnic says. Both are great QB's.
     
  14. 4thand26

    4thand26 Cheesehead

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    When the offense is playing in the dome, the defense also gets to play in the dome. Both get better footing, better climate control, etc...
     
  15. Tileman

    Tileman Cheesehead

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    If Manning stays healthy he'll smash all the records. But who cares, it has no reflection on Favres career whatsoever. Favre doesn't seem to mind, why would anyone else. Favre's had and is still having a great career, why do people feel the need to make excuses for it, like it could've been better. This makes no sense to me. The fact that he's held any of these records for any amount of time, is fantastic.
     
  16. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    Manning:

    Has had the benefit of being:

    - The third least pressured QB in terms of hits and sacks taken over the years ( this is a huge stat that is rarely talked about but...when you have more time to throw and are not getting hit as often, bigger numbers will come )

    - Playing in the dome eight games a season as mentioned above.

    - The benefit of a very good to excellent group of receivers year after year.

    - Has Manning had to go through a couple of years of a rebuilding process yet, where the "entire" focus was defense ?

    Manning "may" get some of Brett's records in the end and they will be deserved if he gets them but with the above benefits included, it is easy to argue that Brett had to worker harder for these numbers.

    Post Note - That's just talking the "numbers" aspect of the game !!!
     
  17. Cdnfavrefan

    Cdnfavrefan Cheesehead

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    Like Favre said" I hope I don't need records to be remembered" I actually found it interesting that even right now the guys on Countdown said only 2 QB's in the league can carry a team without a running game, Brady and Favre" and then they said maybe Manning. At first I was surprised but I can see that cause you look at a lot of what Manning does so well is managing a game and using the run to set up his play action. I'm not sure if he'd be as great if he had to line up and just throw it. I'm not saying this as a negative on him cause he will be a HOF but I agree if people say the best pure passers are Marino and Favre.
     
  18. 4thand26

    4thand26 Cheesehead

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    Post Note 2 - They are both great qb's. Favres body of work does not need excuses.
     
  19. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    Wow, great post. Manning has obviously been in the ideal situation to run up big statistics, but Favre has had it pretty good too. They are both fantastic QB's, so I don't worry too much about comparing them.

    And while Favre is the toughest QB ever, Manning is not too far behind in that department. The guy hasn't missed a game in his career. What more do you want? And part of the reason for the lack of sacks is that, like Favre, Manning is an excellent decision-maker with a very quick release.
     
  20. mike_donnelly

    mike_donnelly Cheesehead

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    I just want to say that people who are using averages for an argument, Peyton had a couple of huge seasons which boosted his numbers, like the record season, chances are he won't do that again, which in turn will eventually bring down his average.

    I wonder if when comparing the numbers, the divisions will be taken into account. Brett has had 2 shots at the Lions every season, Peyton 2 shots at Texans. These have got to be number boosters.

    I also agree with the person who said that defense plays in the dome as well, you have to remember that both teams play in the same conditions, so when Brett is out in the snow, the opposing "D" is as well, and they will not move as quick, and occasionly slip over.
     
  21. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    This was meant as a "very general" comparison of the different circumstances these two QB's have played under; not as a excuse. Brett's numbers being the greatest in all time, in almost every catogory; don't need excuses. My apologies if it came across that way.
     
  22. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    Mike,
    I mean you no disrespect but what in the heck are you talking about? The players averages are what they are. Overlook Manning's best year because it is his best? What do you want Olympic style scoring? (Toss out the high and the low and take the average of the years that are left?)
    Manning's best year was 49 TD's so what? When I came up with the averages I already threw out Brett's first two years because he did not start every game. Manning DID. It is a credit to the young man that he could do that. Very few QBs even if they are drafted in the 1st round start all 16 games their rookie season. Are you going to remove all 3 years that Brett was the MVP (just for balance)?
    Like it has been said time and time again whatever Manning does in his career does not diminish what Favre has achieved in his career. I was just trying to show that Manning does have a chance to surpass Brett IF he stays healthy and IF he continues to play like he has. There are no guarantees that he will or he won't.

    For the record-
    Manning's TD total's are 26, 26, 33, 26, 27, 29, 49, 28, 31 = 275 that is a 30.56 average.
    Remove the high and the average is still 28.25. Which means that it is possible for him to pass Brett if he were to play 5 seasons after Brett retires AND continue to perform at his career average. (Manning is 6 years younger than Brett so it is possible.) He may do like Brett and have a year or two were he is below his average towards the end of his career and then he may have a year or two where he is above his average.

    Brett's REAL TD stats are 0, 18, 19, 33, 38, 39, 35, 31, 22, 20, 32, 27, 32, 30, 20, 18 = 414 that is 25.88.
    Remove Brett's best year and it is only 25 TD per season.
     
  23. mike_donnelly

    mike_donnelly Cheesehead

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    but every year that he does a lot less than 49 will bring it down. to be fair you would have to look at their numbers at the same age, or after the same number of games. my point was that brett hasn't had 1 rudiculously big year that stands out from the rest like Peyton has. How many more is Peyton's best compared with his 2nd best? I counted 16, unless I am wrong. I didn't mean anything against him, his numbers are awesome, but come on, you must admit that if you a 49 TD season, that's going to put an unfair spike in your career average, especially in a career that is not as long as Brett's.
     
  24. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    I was thinking this morning, when it is all said and done I think the record Brett will be most proud of is his consecutive starts for a QB streak.
    For the record he may say it is the wins as they are the most important in the great scheme of things but for is own personal satisfaction it will be the starts.
    Think of all the games that he played in when he was hurt. Playing most of the year with his bad thumb.
    Manning may indeed get the the TD record but 5 more years without an injury that would prevent him from starting is going to be hard to do.
     
  25. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    I'd rather have Favre, because he'll play through anything, with no OL, with mediocre WRs, and he'll at least try to make something happen. Sure, it's not always what we want, but with Favre, you're always in the game.

    Manning has had luxuries that Favre hasn't always had. Nobody knows whether or not Manning will still be good without them. We'll find out soon enough.
     

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