Thompson's Way

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
25,353
Reaction score
4,083
Location
Milwaukee
Very well said..I have heard or seen that quote about Ted from Mike..

If people still question his tactics on building a winner, then those may never be happy?
 

DevilDon

Inclement Weather Fan
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
1,393
Reaction score
268
This post was as well written as any article I've ever read on the subject in the media.
 

13 Times Champs

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
3,924
Reaction score
424
Location
Virginia
I'll admit that early on I wasn't convinced of Thompson's methods but he has made a believer out of me. I see so many other teams now trying to copy how he does things. He refuels the engine his way and it works. We have 10-12 new players on the roster that wern't there last year. Let's not forget that we have some damn good scouts too.
 

bear7625

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
43
Reaction score
2
I'll admit that early on I wasn't convinced of Thompson's methods but he has made a believer out of me. I see so many other teams now trying to copy how he does things. He refuels the engine his way and it works. We have 10-12 new players on the roster that wern't there last year. Let's not forget that we have some damn good scouts too.
I also have to admit I wasn't a TT fan early on. His methods have proven successfull! Had me a piece of that "humble pie". haha
 

neilfii

Hall of Fame Fan
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
4,676
Reaction score
680
Location
NW Indiana
Do you know what goes really, really well with humble pie? A Super Bowl win! I'll eat many a helping of humble pie if it means we get back to the Super Bowl and win it.
 

PackersRS

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
8,450
Reaction score
969
Location
Porto Alegre, Brazil
This was very well said.

One thing that I don't see people mentioning enough about TT's way is that, TT only wants players he think can be elite players. When he doesn't think a player can be elite, he lets them go.

And that's why he prefers the draft than FA. His reasoning is that usually if a player hits FA, it's because his franchise didn't think of him as elite anymore. So even though he might be a better player than a rookie right now, the rookie might turn out to be much better in the future than this FA.

When he values rookies more than FAs, it's not only because of cost-benefit. It's because he trully believes the potential on those rookies is better than the flawed FA can bring.
 
OP
OP
TJV

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
DevilDon, thanks for those kind words.
 
Last edited:

PFanCan

That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,067
Reaction score
491
Location
Houston, TX
ThxJack- Well written and thanks. I always seek out your posts as they are informative, speak to a wide range of readers (from fan-experts to noobies), and have a purpose. If you don't earn income from sports writing, you should give it a go...

Back to your post: When I saw only eight OL on the roster, the first thing I thought was, "Ted must have a bunch of names in his file..." So, am agreed with your thesis- the roster is simply the 53 as it stands today. In the future- depending on the need, he will dig into the rolodex and find a name from his "extended" roster.

From his point of view, it's part of business as usual. But from our perspective, he looks like a magician pulling new talent from seemingly no where.
 
OP
OP
TJV

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
This morning Wayne Larrivee said during the off season when he ran into people from the Falcons organization
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
TJV

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
Here’s a link (to the column) to a good column by Pete Dougherty
 
Last edited:

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
25,353
Reaction score
4,083
Location
Milwaukee
Very well said..

I agree 100% with the Ted ego issues..On this forum and others, I BEGGED for the Ted haters to show me how he had this huge ego..Never got a reasonable explanation...

I also think not having an owner has a big impact...I think Ted doesnt feel pressured to get a player on the field because the owner invested so much in a guy....Since he isnt pressured, then he wont pressure Mike..

The Pack are very unique and can do things with out a owner (Jerry Jones) putting his nose where it doesnt belong.
 
OP
OP
TJV

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
Now that the Packers have secured HFA and their only task before the playoffs is surviving the game vs. the Lions injury-free,
 
Last edited:

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
25,353
Reaction score
4,083
Location
Milwaukee
Now that the Packers have secured HFA and their only task before the playoffs is surviving the game vs. the Lions injury-free, I thought I’d step back and attempt some perspective on what is about to unfold in the playoffs.

Repeating as champions in the NFL is extremely difficult. Since Vince Lombardi stepped down as head coach of the Packers, there have been 43 Super Bowls. Seven times champions have repeated so almost 84% of the time a different team wins the title the following season. According to an article in the Harvard College Sports Analysis blog LINK, through 2008 30% of Super Bowl winners don’t even make the playoffs the following season and all but 12% of the time champions have the same or worse regular season record the season following their Super Bowl win. The Packers have obviously joined the 70% who made the playoffs and also joined the 12% by posting a better regular season record the year after winning it all. But joining the 16% or so of repeat champions is still very much an uphill climb IMO.

IMO the Packers’ 19-0 winning streak and the out-of-this-world play of Aaron Rodgers has some Packers fans ignoring how incredibly difficult repeating is in today’s NFL. Instead some Packers fans and posters here believe the Packers are head and shoulders better than any other team in the NFL and are nearly a lock to win consecutive titles. While I of course wish that were the case, I unfortunately have to disagree. IMO the Packers have the best QB and the best receiving corps in the league and not necessarily the best overall team. However, with Jennings and the other receivers healthy if Rodgers is given adequate protection, I believe their dynamic passing offense can lead them to another title this season in spite of the “generous nature” of their defense regarding yards and their middling position in surrendering points.


I have echoed that statement for a while on this forum....I wasnt trying to be a downer, but the game have to be played...

I would love nothing more than another SB win... It will cement Ted and Mike as better then Wolf and Holmgren..


IMO one thing above all else is necessary for that to happen: The OL has to get and stay healthy. They surrendered just 7 sacks during the first four games of the season. If they can return to playing at that level, along with enough of a threat from the running game to keep defenses honest, I will be extremely confident during the playoffs. But that too is definitely an uphill battle as among the offensive linemen, only TJ Lang has been on the field for every offensive snap.

Marshall Newhouse has been roundly criticized here and while I understand the criticism I do think some of it has been over the top. A pay-site article (no link) notes Newhouse has been up and down: He dominated Detroit’s VandenBosch, got handled by the Giants’ Pierre-Paul, did well against Oakland’s Wimbley and gave up two sacks to KC’s Hali. We all saw Newhouse play very well against the Bears, so the up-and-down play the article describes continued. The article says after settling in at the most difficult spot on the OL, Newhouse has allowed four sacks in road games and two sacks at home. Although the author doesn’t pinpoint when Newhouse “settled in” and doesn’t provide the number of pressures surrendered, that and Newhouse’s play Sunday does provide a glimmer of hope for a team which just locked up HFA throughout the playoffs.

I think that can be attributed to just being young and inexperienced..While right now it doesnt seem good, but this will help him learn and in the future I dont think we will have to worry about him..So once again, right now, looks like Ted has obtained someone that will be good.


So while I don’t think Newhouse is a disaster (review Allen Barbre’s play in any game for an example of a real disaster), I am still pining for the return of Chad Clifton. His return to even average play (for him) elevates the Packers’ chances by a significant margin IMO. Unless of course Newhouse can replicate his play against the Bears for three consecutive playoff games. Otherwise an OL of Clifton, Lang, Wells, Sitton, and Bulaga would make it nearly impossible for a team to repeat KC’s success against the Packers’ offense. Getting consistent pressure with four DL was the first element of that plan. IMO that would not have been possible and will not be possible if the Packers can field the healthy OL I’m hoping for.

We do need our o-l to play as solid as possible...However Chad coming back for the playoffs wont be a blessing...He wont be in game shape..But I am hoping that he plays vs Det, gets his legs under him and then has 2 weeks to get back in shape..

I do like the o-l you mention...That should be enough to provide Rodgers with the protection he needs,



The other element of KC’s plan was to play a ton of man-to-man coverage. In addition to those (IMO) bad offensive-interference calls on Jordy, how was he neutralized? IMO it was mostly because of the absence of Jennings, who draws either the best coverage CB with some safety help or the second best coverage CB with almost constant safety help. Also, KC has some good DBs and those players were available to cover Nelson and Finley. A large part of the value of both Jennings and Finley is the coverage they draw away from Nelson, Driver, Cobb and other receivers: Having Jennings back in the lineup means much more than just the catches he makes. And if a playoff foe plays a ton of man-to-man, not only will the Packers receivers have a better shot of beating that coverage with Jennings, the fact the DBs have their backs turned to the QB means greater rushing opportunities for Rodgers and the recipients of his outlet passes like Starks or Grant.

Dont forget the drops...That was a horrible game for the WR...


Of course I would LOVE to see the defense return to its play of last season, but IMO that’s an unrealistic hope at this point. IMO if the Packers are going to repeat, they’ll do so on the very capable shoulders of their franchise QB. And if the offense can replicate their play of most of this season that will enable the defense to do what it does best: Take the ball away as opponents try to keep up with the Packers’ prolific offense. Go back to the KC game: What if the Packers led 14-6 at the half and then extended their lead early in the second half? Would Orton have been able to take such good care of the ball in all-out catch-up mode? Some fans may believe it’s unfair most of the burden falls on the offense and upon Rodgers in particular, but I believe that’s the truth of the matter and “fairness” has to take a back seat to reality - at least how I see it.

I am very worried about this...Look out how the Bears just gashed our d-l and lb...The only thing that I am hanging my hat on is that Pickett wasnt in, and Hawk isnt back to form yet...I dont think Giants could out score us, Niners either...The Saints can

We still need to get some sort of pass rush, which in turn will help our secondary...No matter the outcome of this year, someone needs to step up next year to be the leader that Collins was..I am sure the coaches and Ted know how much he is missed..Does that mean Ted goes and gets a fa? Is someone on the team ready to play that role? Will Collins be back and if so, will he be the same??


http://nflsfuture.com/2011/11/15/2012-nfl-free-agent-safeties/

One more positive as the Packers prepare for the playoffs: Special teams. In spite of where he sits statistically IMO the Packers have a clutch punter in Masthay. And Lee has emerged as a pretty good partner to Bush as a gunner on the punt team. Masthay and Crosby’s strong leg give the coverage units a good chance to contain opponents. Cobb has emerged as a legitimate return threat – we just have to hope he’s matured enough not to make the big mistake in the playoffs.

It’s not necessarily the best team that wins it all; many times it’s the hottest team. And by definition, the Packers will have to face at least the “hotter” teams on their way to another title. While I wish the Packers’ defense was playing stingier ball, IMO a healthy offense hitting on all cylinders will score enough points and put their defense in favorable enough situations to win another title. And we can reasonably expect the special teams units to contribute as well, or at least not to screw that up.

Masthay is becoming a GREAT asset..When was last time we had a punter that we dont worry about? Cobb is a good returner, just has to hold onto the ball
 

ExpatPacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
1,813
Reaction score
227
Location
A Galaxy Far, Far Away
A great post JV and I wholeheartedly agree that the most realistic key for the Packers to go far is a healthy OL. The signs for Clifton's return seem good at the moment, and Bulaga is due to return as well. The question is whether they can get some reps and come together as an OL for the playoffs. If the answer is yes, then the Packers have a legitimate shot to repeat.

On a down note Starks is hurt yet again. Nagging ankle injuries. I really wonder whether he's going to be able to contribute or not, or whether it's better to hand the running game over to Grant.
 
OP
OP
TJV

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
I’m looking forward to seeing Matt Flynn today.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
TJV

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
A Question for the near future:
 
Last edited:

AmishMafia

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
7,270
Reaction score
2,387
Location
PENDING
What is the timing of all of this with the new CBA? Can the Packers still sign Finley and then use the tag on Flynn?
 

Shawnsta3

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
1,273
Reaction score
137
Location
Manawa & Shawano, WI
Look no further than Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy if you want to know who's responsible for this great team we have. I think you guys did a great job outlining what makes this duo so great and how its powered us to our success. And I also think a lot of packer fans don't know what they have in TT. Not only has he built a built a perennial championship contender but he's built us for success YEARS down the road. How truly blessed we are :)
 
D

Dan115

Guest
A Question for the near future:

JtheGreat’s post on the Cobb thread got me thinking about a decision Thompson is going to have to make in the next couple of months. Ordinarily I don’t pay much attention to topics like the draft and other future considerations while the Packers are still playing playoff games, but I’m now saturated with information about tomorrow’s game; all the reasons the Packers should win and too many the Giants should. Like many of you, I’m in the mode I’ll bet the players and coaches are in: Enough talk, let’s play. So I thought I’d take my mind off the game tomorrow and consider Thompson’s next big decision regarding player personnel.

The decision has to do with the Packers’ greatest strength; their passing game. If they don’t have the best group of WRs in the league, I don’t know who does. Except for injury, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Jones will very likely be together for the next three years. I believe Jennings is a FA in 2013, so look for him to be extended next season. Nelson isn’t a FA until 2015. Jones doesn’t become a FA until 2014, and Cobb isn’t a FA until 2015. Thompson’s way is to extend core players in the last year of their contracts so if he does that with Jennings during 2012, the group of Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, and Jones will be together at least through the 2014 season!

The last year of Driver’s contract is 2012, so the Packers go into next season with all of their WRs under contract. However, I think it’s likely 2012 is Driver’s last year in Green Bay. IMO Cobb more than takes Driver’s place and I don’t mean that as a knock on Donald (near the end of his fantastic career) but rather as high praise for Cobb. After Driver leaves I see the WR group to be #1 Jennings, #2 Jordy, #3 Cobb, and #4 Jones. And who knows where the newcomer taking Driver’s place will appear on this list?

But there’s one more player in the discussion at WR. What makes Jermichael Finley so valuable is because of the miss-matches he creates and the resulting attention he draws, his presence opens opportunities and along with Rodgers’ pinpoint accuracy makes the WRs even better than they would be otherwise. As we all know Finley’s contract expires at the end of this season.

Thompson’s dilemma is so does Matt Flynn’s. Thompson has one tag to use. He can place the franchise tag on one, but not both of them. The NFL doesn’t like teams to use the franchise tag to facilitate trades, but according to Jason Wilde it’s still available for that purpose. So Thompson is going to have decide if maximizing the value he can get for Flynn is worth risking the loss of Finley. If he applies the tag to Finley he gets leverage to drive the price of a long-term done as I believe the tag would cost the Packers somewhere between $5M and $6M. That’s all the guaranteed money Finley would receive for risking a career-threatening injury during the 2012 season if he plays for the tag amount. Thompson and Russ Ball can offer more than twice that amount and get a cap and money friendly deal for a core player. They have leverage of having won a title without Jermichael. But Finley is going to be 25 years old in two months and is entering the prime of his career. If he matures, he can be much more than a decoy used to enhance the value of the already talented WR corp.

If Thompson uses the tag on Flynn, he of course risks losing Finley. He also risks Flynn signing the offer and playing (or hopefully watching) the 2012 season for about $14M. (Aaron Rodgers will be playing it for $8M in salary in 2012.) So the Packers would have to come to an agreement with Flynn’s agent to cooperate in the tag-and-trade deal. Flynn would be better off being an unrestricted free agent, able to deal with any team and not requiring the team to give up a very valuable draft choice. Normally in these circumstances after the tag is applied, I believe the player’s agent is told to shop his services and agree to the terms of a deal with a team. And he’s told the price the Packers will require in compensation. My guess is if Flynn were under contract in 2012, the Packers could get a first round pick for him. Some Packers fans may expect more but I think trades like the Kevin Kolb deal (a 2nd rounder and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie) put a damper on Flynn’s price. Also, keep in mind other teams will know the Packers have to trade him. With the success Thompson and company have had in the draft, I’d salivate at the prospect of them going into the draft with their full complement of choices PLUS a first rounder. IOW, that’d be enough compensation for me.

So does Thompson risk losing a difference maker in the passing game about to enter the prime of his career for the chance to get a first rounder, or more? Because of the risk of having to pay the tag amount to Flynn which would really screw up the cap and the team’s finances, my guess is he won’t. He will also consider he’s likely to get a compensation pick at the end of the 2013 third round if Flynn becomes a UFA. Applying the tag to Finley means at a minimum they get his services for 2012 for a reasonable price. Most likely it will mean a four year – or longer - cap friendly deal with Finley, tying him up through the 2015 season. Oh ya: The contract of the most important player in the passing game expires in 2015. One thing we know for certain is it will be extended before then.

But of course, first things first: Crush the Giants!

The source for the contract expiration dates is rotoworld. http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/gb/
They will tag Finley.
 
OP
OP
TJV

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
Dan Pompei wrote a pretty good piece on Ted Thompson
 
Last edited:

Members online

Latest posts

Top