Thompson: Roster is "skewed"

[Lare]

What I think.

I think that trying to base opinions on the talent level of this team before the season is started is kind of like pissing into the wind.

I think some people will never give Ted Thompson credit for anything good he does, and others will never blame him for anything bad he does.

I think we'll have a lot more factual data to base our opinions on a week from now, two weeks from now, etc.





Oh, and I think that some people will find some reason to find fault with this post, just because that is what they have to do to feel good about themselves. :roll:

It is what it is.

 

[Fuzznuts]

Right, and he hasn't really focused on the D-Line and LB corps almost to the exclusion of all else, right?

That is the Packers strongest area, wouldn't you agree?

(You can't play 5 or 6 LB'ers. But it is the area he's concentrated on the most in the last 3 years. And I bet he signs another one this year before he's through. )

Funny how you can take one of the most promising parts of this team, one of the things that we as Packer fans take pride in, and turn it into something that TT has screwed up.


Talk about tunnel vision.......

You talk about tunnel vision, because you have it. It's called seeing the big picture, son.

Something that you and others fail to do.

Imo, TT is a collector of talent with a hyper-focus on defense. So much so that he basically has neglected the offense for years so that he can build his precious defense. Look at the O-Line, WR, TE situations in '05 and '06, and now, look at the RB situation today in '07. That is, if you can take off your 'TT colored' glasses for about 5 mins.

It takes a whole team to win, and I think that Thompson has not been particularly good at addressing the whole team, especially the offense. Now, I'm not saying that he's not building a good defense, that seems to be his forte. But he has a penchant for trying to throw things against the wall to see if they'll stick, when it comes to the offense.

What I am saying as well is that trying to piece together an o-line with castoffs and rookie talent in '05, not going after any FA WR's, TE's in '06, and now not going after any RB's, TE's, and at least one veteran FA WR in '07 is neglecting the offense and his duties as GM in my book, and once again it's going to bite him, and us, in the *** this year again! :evil:

Now that's my opinion Sonny, and if you don't like it, you don't have to attack me personally, just don't subscribe to it, and we'll see who's right in the end.

But I know it's going to be me! :rotflmao:

I get a kick out of people who try to describe a team inherited by a GM as "their team" as if he kicked all 53 players off and brought all new guys on in '05.
It was TT's fault the cap was so badly mismanaged he couldn't breath or that apparantly the contracts of Wahle and Rivera were sealed documents that Sherman was not aware of the dates of expiration.
Sherman had no plan on how to deal with these guys nor did he have a respectable backup player to step in. Just "here you go Ted, deal with it."
But of course Ted was just supposed to go "****" there, it's fixed.

The irony of it is we have people here like you *****in' about how TT handled the offensive line situation and yet here were are today in much better shape than had he pulled some rabbit out of his hat and kept the old guys.

Of course we have people like you *****in' anyhow about the transformation of a defense that is ten-fold better than it was when TT got here.

This same recipe is what allowed Chicago to pass us by and take over the North. There's no big mystery here. By '05, to a man, their defense was better than ours.

But of course "in the end you know you will be right." Right?

And I get a kick out of people who claim that Sherman was some kind of mongoloid idiot, and TT some kind of Einsteinian genius before he's even earned it by winning games.

(And I'm not a Sherman fan by any stretch, but at least he won games. His biggest problem was the coaching staff he relied on, and his own coaching.)

I seem to remember a little guy who came arrived in Green Bay in '05 by the name Jim Bates and kicked a little *** and turned the defense into a top 10 defensive unit. Or do you forget that guy who turned Sherman's mongoloids into a decent bunch? Alot of you guys were crowing about how great the defense was then, remember?

And I wouldn't go and crown the offensive line yet, since we haven't had a running attack yet with this bunch, although that may change, hopefully.

I'm not trying to bash Thompson as many of you guys here think.

I just don't like it when some of you are ready to annoint (or crown) him as a some genius or the second coming of Lombardi when he doesn't even have a winning record yet, and yes, the man does have flaws. Like in his ability to put together a good offense, imo. :x

 

[longtimefan]

Talk about skewed...top 10 D in 05??

LOL



Look at the stats of that D...


Yup #1 vs the pass, who the hell would pass, when they were winning and could JAM the ball down their throat..And that was the norm not the expection..

That D in 05 was AVERAGE

But Bates did work wonders!!

 

[Fuzznuts]

I agree.

But average is not so bad in this league sometimes, and it's certainly better than the Sherman bashing, excuse making, TT apologists would have you believe about the '05 team!

I mean, c'mon. TT couldn't have signed a veteran WR or TE in FA for 3 years now that's better than what we have now, or that would least perform better because of experience?

That's bullsh*t! :roll:

 

[tromadz]

And I get a kick out of people who claim that Sherman was some kind of mongoloid idiot

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[Zero2Cool]

lol

 

[Fuzznuts]

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[Bertram]

well at least he doesn't sleep through the combine and drafts crap.

 

[Fuzznuts]

No.

Just free agency.

That's when he catches up! :lol:

 

[Bertram]

He doesn't sleep through free agency. Are you sure YOU haven't been sleeping through all free agencies? Do you know how many of those high priced free agents flop either because they doesn't fit the system or because they relax once they have that big contract signed?

Ted Thompson signed Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett, both very important contributors to our team.

But hey, you just probably want another Joe Johnson.

You wanted to pay big money to Ahman Green, an old banged up RB who's fading, or Travis Henry who has legal problems after he fathered 9 children in 9 different states, or perhaps any other of those old banged up over the height RBs? Or Joe Horn to a 50 million 5 year contract?

 

[Pack93z]

Well this much can be said, the current players at RB and FB cannot be blamed on Sherman... he hasn't been GM here since 04'... and the success or failure of the backfield is fair game for debate.

We have overhauled the roster already.. now it is time to see where we are THIS year and go from there...

PLEASE let this be the last thread in debate of whether it is Ted's fault or Mikey's fault. Pretty damn soon someone is going to blame Tom Braatz for something on this years roster...

The RB situation has changed drastically this year with the exodus of Green and Henderson that was inevitable. It's another area, in a series of areas, that has had to be addressed.

I would rather we give the GM the chance, like he has in other areas, to properly address the issues at hand. He cannot help the fact that Green or Henderson got older or were offered a rediculous amount of money.

It's a little early to start "debating" anything about our RB's to this point when they have not seen anything resembling a hole to run thru yet. If anything the fault to date lies with the "0" line but to their credit we haven't loaded the gun with real bullits yet.

So many here ready to condemn people and declare failure before whatever response to the ever changing circumstances have even been set in motion.

A young Green and Henderson would be great and I can't wait to see who emerges in their footsteps. I, for one, believe if we can get that much better on defense and come out on top with an "0" line like we have this should not be any insurmountable task by any means.

All I am trying to say is that we knew that Green's contract was ex[piring, that he was aging and that there was little depth behind him. Those facts were known in 05 and 06... not all of a sudden in 07 did this come up.

Again, if the cut blocking and line come alive, we will be able to run behind them with an running back that isn't using a walker to take a step. It is the other areas that a running back is responsible for that will be lacking.. IE.. the checkdown pass that both Jackson and Wynn didn't pass with flying colors... or the blitz pickup in which both (see the Titans game footage) backs struggled with and will be sub-par.

Will that come with time this year, YES it will without a doubt. How soon? We won't know.. maybe in this first game, maybe in the 10th game. Jackson will be a good back in this league barring injury. We shall see....

Like I said... we are playing a game of high stakes poker in the backfield.. we are just sitting here waiting for the FLOP cards to be turned..

 

[warhawk]

I guess it is going to be impossible for me to get across the point that our GM has been quite busy accumulating talent in several areas that have been needing to be addressed.

To consider our '05 defense anything other than lousy is rediculous. We were 4-12. Our run defense which is KEY to a solid defense stunk. IF our goal is to be a viable playoff team there is no sense being dilusional to the point we think guys like Roman, Carroll, Digg's, Lenon, etc., were ever going to get us there.

I also cannot understand the lack of comprehension when it comes to the need for depth. We had virtually NONE. I could not think of a backup player that I would want to see in a game. You don't go into a season without the realization you have to have good backup players to step in for injury.

Simply put finding Green's replacement before now would have been a luxury we could not afford with all the positions we have needed to shore up.

To say RB has NOT been properly addressed after four lousy pre season games is as rediculous as stating our '05 defense was serviceble.

 

[Packnic]

no one seems to get the idea that maybe Thompson just didnt want Green. Maybe in 06 he looked at his contract and said... no way im re-signing this guy or giving him an extension unless its at a decent price.

Vernand Morency came in last year and replaced Green fairly well with little experience and practice. Samkon Gado the year before that. I mean i like Green as much as the next guy but what has he shown you for the past 2 years beside a low yard per carry average and injury.

I just dont see how having Ahman Green (with his injuries, fumbles and mediocre production) would make this current running back corp any more stable. people act as if Ahman Green is never hurt or something.

 

[Pack93z]

I guess it is going to be impossible for me to get across the point that our GM has been quite busy accumulating talent in several areas that have been needing to be addressed.

War... I agree that he has built the depth in other areas.. we shall see what it brings us this year along with the talent assembled at RB. Hell Jackson might be the second comming of Emmitt Smith or Edgar Bennett for what we know at this junction.. time will tell.

With that said... we have no cushion for error in this position we are in.. we have no veteran to turn to and say get us through this game or couple of games. Young players struggle.. Example Poppy on defense... they get better as time goes on and the game slows down.

For Christ's sake's we have no one in the backfield that has proven jack diddly ****... they will struggle at times... and what I have said time in and out.. we have no one to turn to that has been there before..

I just penned a post about a week or so ago... patting TT on the back... he has built better depth on the roster in most areas..

But in my opinion he missed on the Backfield this year... that is not saying I want Green back at the money he got, that is a bigger gamble than what we are in now. Yes we are rolling the dice... we had cap space to find a veteran with more than a games worth of experience to the roster.

I can't speak for others.. but I am not panicked over this at all.. other than the Charger game, none look to be offensive powerhouses, so we should have time to A) see what we have in live action... B) make adjustments whether in players or schemes to counter our weaknesses..

Now if that is ripping on the GM... I am sorry you can't see the other side to the fence. For the life of me I can't understand why it is so hard to see that some posters on this board are supportive but objective at the same time. Last time I checked commenting on the weakness or unproven players on the team is an aspect of the game.

 

[warhawk]

He went with the younger guy from last year that showed he could play some and used a second round pick there as well. I think we all agree there were no other first roung RB's out there.

To me it appears we would not be questioning these moves as inadequite if:
A) The run game showed more life in pre season
B) We didn't have virtually every back go down in pre season

But after all it's pre season and no one knows MM's agenda for it.

I would rather think that the "0" line is going to be vastly improved in this area over last year which drives the train. The fact that not much materialized so far hasn't been as concerning to me when we have seen a FB in front of a HB and my ten year old son recognizes a run formation.

I think it was Packnic that pointed out Mo had more carries over twenty yards then Green last year which is pretty amazing when you figure he carried it about a quarter as many times.

Let him and the #1's get out there when it counts before deciding someone has already done a lousy job at something.

 

[Pack93z]

We are saying the same things, other than I believe we should have some experience in the backfield to lean upon if the young guys struggle.

Just as you point to the Oline with experience... I think it is just as important to have someone in the backfield that has been there before. Not a pro-bowl back or anything.. just someone that can fill in the gaps if the young guys falter and someone that can be utilized in needed situations..

That is it.. nothing more.. I wasn't bashing Ted's brain's in... I think it is clear that we gambled in the pre-season and things didn't turn out.. we are gambling in the regular season as we shall see what it brings..

Next year we will be better for letting Jackson get thrown into the flames.. he will have the experience you speak of that the Oline got last year... but at times last year we needed better play out of the online and had no one but another rookie to turn to. We suffered through that by changing our game plan (Backs and TE in to block). We will survive this as well... but that doesn't mean it was the best road to follow.

 

[warhawk]

93,
I have no problem with you what so ever. Your a good poster and I gain from your insight.

Don't get yourself confused with some others I gain very little from because I don't always name who I am referring to in every post.

There are some here who strangle our GM over every issue that pops up here because they have a bone to pick over some prior move he made. Rather than just bow up and say "hey, I'm pissed at him because he didn't handle so and so right" so we could all MOVE ON and go to bigger and better things. They prefer to nit pick every issue and every circumstance.

Why?

Because the do not want to let it go. They prefer to rant, rave, and discriminate. It's their RIGHT, you see, to hold a freaking grudge until hell freezes over. Even when their arguements make no sense what so ever and I doubt even they, themselves, at times really BELIEVE what they are saying.

When everything they have had to say is countered with something measurable they come back with positions that make no sense at all. BUT, they have the right to this opinion because somewhere, someway, way back when, TT pissed them off. Royally.

And we all get to live with it thank you very much. It's all cool though.

Aint no step for a stepper.

 

[Pack93z]

War...

I enjoy your posts as well... sometimes it is hard to tell whom one is commenting about or to in cyberspace... I look forward to more discussions in the future...

Oh yeah... I am pissed that we don't have a veteran back in the stable

 

[cheesey]

I think we would have had Lynch in the first round, had the Bills not scooped him up.
The injuries at RB (which NO one could have forseen) have caused alot of tension. Hopefully Morency will be able to play, and stay healthy. And Jackson be a nice addition. Time alone will tell.

 

[Lare]

I think if the talent level and depth on this team are as good as some people think, it'll be readily apparent this year in the increased production, competitiveness and success of the team. These are all areas that can be measured statistically and in the W/L column.

And if the talent level and depth are as bad as some people think, that too will be quite obvious both in results but in the various team rankings.

We shall see.

 

[dhpackr]

I guess it is going to be impossible for me to get across the point that our GM has been quite busy accumulating talent in several areas that have been needing to be addressed.

To consider our '05 defense anything other than lousy is rediculous. We were 4-12. Our run defense which is KEY to a solid defense stunk. IF our goal is to be a viable playoff team there is no sense being dilusional to the point we think guys like Roman, Carroll, Digg's, Lenon, etc., were ever going to get us there.

I also cannot understand the lack of comprehension when it comes to the need for depth. We had virtually NONE. I could not think of a backup player that I would want to see in a game. You don't go into a season without the realization you have to have good backup players to step in for injury.

Simply put finding Green's replacement before now would have been a luxury we could not afford with all the positions we have needed to shore up.

To say RB has NOT been properly addressed after four lousy pre season games is as rediculous as stating our '05 defense was serviceble.

what's really RIDICULOUS is an NFL roster w/the exception of 1 player, having no experience at the skill positions on offense.
Tell me about the depth at S, RB, TE, and let's tals about our special teams return unit?
When was the last time the Packers had a kickoff returned for a TD?

 

[tromadz]

what qualifies in Dhpackr land as 'experience?'

 

[dhpackr]

no one seems to get the idea that maybe Thompson just didnt want Green. Maybe in 06 he looked at his contract and said... no way im re-signing this guy or giving him an extension unless its at a decent price.

Vernand Morency came in last year and replaced Green fairly well with little experience and practice. Samkon Gado the year before that. I mean i like Green as much as the next guy but what has he shown you for the past 2 years beside a low yard per carry average and injury.

I just dont see how having Ahman Green (with his injuries, fumbles and mediocre production) would make this current running back corp any more stable. people act as if Ahman Green is never hurt or something.

even last year Green showed he had the ability to take a run all the way to the end zone.

 

[MNPackerfan]

I think the packers did have people with some experience but because of injuries it did not work out that way:
Vernand Morency - 3rd year, 1 year in the packers system.
Noah Herron - 3rd year, at least 1 year in the packers system.
Brandon Miree - 3rd year, at least 1 year in the packers system.

Ted upped the competition with 3 other players,
Arliss Beach - 2 year
Pope - 2 year
B Jackson - R
White - R
Wynn - R
Korey Hall - R

While the holdovers were not great players they did bring some experience. I think because of all the injuries it just hasn't worked out.

 

[dhpackr]

what qualifies in Dhpackr land as 'experience?'

how about 16 regular season games!