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Thompson personally at Calvin Johnsons workout

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by trippster, Mar 24, 2007.

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  1. flapackfan

    flapackfan Cheesehead

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    Uh, i would not want to be paying Reggie bush 50+ million dollars, no thanks. He has proven that he is a third down back in this league and that he is not a great in between the tackles runner which is what the NFL is all about.

    I'd much rather have Jones-Drew to be honest. Joseph Addai is a product of his team. See Edgeren James before & after Indy for example. Colston was a fluke find and is not the norm and you know this. Please be fair here ok. Rothliesburger played great last year didnt he. He has proven only that he can play great when he has a dominant defense and running game to help him. Other than that, he is decent at best. Its not like he is equal to Peyton Manning or Brett Favre.

    You just proved my point, this exactly why we need to trade for him.

    Who could have predicted that Moore had no heart and packed it in.

    Im just fine with that to be honest. I'll take 3 - 4 great years out of Moss and when he loses his skills, we cut him. What a concept. Then we will have that money to spend on another player who can help the team in whatever area we need. This theory of not spending money because 2 years from now we might want to spend it is ridiculous.

    We do not win any kind of "Spent the least money award"
     
  2. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Agree 100%.
     
  3. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Why avoid the point of what you said that draft picks are useless. Look at the impact alone that Reggie Bush and Marques Colston had on the Saints last year. Also you state we have to spend money and then you state I wouldn't pay 50 million for Reggie Bush? So which is it?

    Wasn't Moss just another useless draft pick in 1998?

    Is that a yes or no to the question? If it's a yes then you would of potentially gave Randy Moss for Herman Moore. Great trade huh!

    You see how it works both ways?

    Is this what you would of stated about Herman Moore too?

    I agree we need to make some moves. I've been very dissapointed with this off season for the Packers but I'm willing to give the Packers a chance. If they do improve as much within as Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy hope for then I see no reason why they can't make the playoffs next year.

    My point was not to state spending money is bad or not to trade for Randy Moss. My point was to state that saying draft picks are useless is a completely awful concept.
     
  4. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    I agree Porky, draft picks are far from worthless but you forgot when talking about the Saints to mention he was a FA. It's a nice mix of FA's and Draft Picks.
     
  5. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Oh I agree hence my disappointment. There were some bargains out there that the Pack missed out on. However I was mealy providing examples of draft picks who played prominent roles in their respective teams success.
     
  6. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Any thought on why Ted would be at CJ's workout. I find a trade for him highly unlikely.
     
  7. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Was it just Calvin Johnson working out?

    If there were other players working out, then perhaps TT went to scout one of them?
     
  8. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    There is a very slight chance Johnson slips down to Washington at #6. Perhaps the Redskins would want to move down for more picks because they have only 2 picks in this years Draft. One in round 1 and the other in round 5. So if that happens I could maybe see TT making a move up to get Calvin Johnson. However I doubt Johnson falls past Tampa and if that were to happen I think Washington would snatch him right up. I think T.T. is just covering his basis and perhaps in the future if Johnson were to become a free agent he'll remember this workout.
     
  9. Bowechov

    Bowechov Cheesehead

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    I'm ashamed I didn't even think of that because everyone was so focused on the fact that it was "Calvin Johnson's workout day" when it was really Georgia Tech's Pro Day. I actually heard some weeks ago that he wanted to have the workout separate from the combine so more guys on his team would get seen because of all the scouts there to see him.


    THANK YOU!!!!!
     
  10. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    From a redskin site

    http://www.hogshaven.com/story/2007/3/16/105542/166
    Maybe Joe Gibbs shouldnt have gone either?

     
  11. flapackfan

    flapackfan Cheesehead

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    Most draft picks are useless. If you bothered to read my entire posts maybe you would understand what im talking about. Or maybe i have to spell it out better for some of you guys.
    The impact of Reggie Bush?? Are you kidding?? He was a good third down back last year but lets be honest. They didnt pay him 50 million to be a good third down back. They paid him to be a difference maker and he failed miserably at that. He isnt even the best "running back" on his team. Like i said before, Marques Colston was a fluke. You can not depend on that type of production from late round picks. It just doesnt happen. You know this for a fact but you bring it up anyway just to suit your argument. Seriously, is winning an argument so important to you that you have to twist the facts???

    Another great comment that does not deserve a response

    I know you are not comparing the career of Herman Moore to Randy Moss. Two very different players. Comparing them is quite pointless. I dont know how the subject of Herman Moore even came up.



    WTF are you talking about. We never had Herman Moore. Stop living in fantasy land and trying to mind "screw" me just because your argument holds no water.

    Bottom line, we need a receiver, Moss is the only good receiver out there and he is dying to play for us and he is available. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to play for the Packers so we should welcome a guy who wants to come here and is willing to re-structure his contract which is pretty rare in the NFL these days. Sounds like "Packer People" to me.

    Once again, putting words in my mouth. NEVER DID I SAY that all draft picks are a waste and need to be traded. My point if you were paying attention, was that in some situations when we have an opportunity to greatly improve our team by trading a draft pick for a superstar who could help us, it is not the end of the world to trade away a draft pick to get him. You guys think draft picks are like gold or something. How did Ahmad Caroll work out? Tony Mandarich, Jamal Reynolds, Terell Buckley, Vinnie Clark, Wayne Simmons, Terell Buckley, Aaron Taylor John Michels Ross Verba Vonnie Holliday Antuan Edwards Bubba Franks Jamal Reynolds Javon Walker Nick Barnett Ahmad Carroll Aaron Rodgers A.J. Hawk.

    These are our first round picks in the last 16 years. The verdict isnt in yet on A.J. Hawk. Barnett is pretty good. Other than that, nothing much to write home about. I would trade any one of these players in their prime for Randy Moss at this point in his career. Most of these draft picks were duds.

    Were you saying something about the value of draft picks??? Because maybe i wasnt listening.

    Scoreboard
     
  12. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    LOL.
     
  13. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Woah, let's take it easy there Flap, no need to start getting ticked off about the debate you and Porky are having. It's all in good fun. :)

    I think we can all agree that the Packers getting Johnson (no matter how unlikely that is) would reek of awesomeness.
     
  14. flapackfan

    flapackfan Cheesehead

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    :rotflmao:

    Lol, what do you expect. Its late at night and i have a few beers in meh.

    As far as Cal Johnson goes, i'd trade all our picks this year and a 2nd & 3rd next year to get him. hes not as fast as Moss was coming out of college, but he is bigger & stronger and looks more willing to bang with the big boys and get a little dirty which i like in a receiver.
     
  15. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    Trading all your pick has not worked in the past, Mr. Ditka...... :thumbsup:
     
  16. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    fla pack fan... you just named off 6 or 7 great players in your first round picks argument.

    if we can get a guy like nick barnett in every first round pick we ever take... we are doing excellent... in fact im not sure what else you want from a player...


    Basically to say. draft picks are useless.... well thats just plain stupid. idiotic. retarded. draft picks are very useful and the effects around the league on guys coming from the draft are statement enough.

    same goes for FA. FA are definetly not useless. its all in moderation. you wants some great draft picks and some great FA pick ups. one player never makes a team so to toss out 3-4 picks for one player, be it Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson, is absolutely ridiculous.

    I want randy moss and id piss all down my right pant leg (hangs that way naturally) if we somehow got calvin johnson.... but not at the expense of the rest of the team.
     
  17. paxvogel

    paxvogel Cheesehead

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    I think the best shot is a trade with Detroit who is enamored with Willis and could get him at 16. Maybe our #1 and #2 and KGB for their #1. Johnson makes a lot of sense to me since he is probably a better WR at this point to fill our need, has less baggage than Moss and would be a quality target for the next ten years. Only question is how much would Detroit want. I am against trading Rodgers since he is our future.
     
  18. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    problem B. getting a division rival to trade with us for a superstar reciever
     
  19. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    RIGHT ON Trippster!!!
    And.....if the guy bombs or gets hurt, THEN what did giving up ALL your picks get you?
     
  20. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Your direct quote below.

    Ive heard he was to be traded for a 2nd rounder. But anyway, he is worth a first rounder anyway. He is worth our first three picks in this draft.Draft picks are useless for the most part.

    All we have to do is this, trade our first round pick for Randy Moss. Then, the money we would have spent on that first rounder, spend it on a free agent. Ahhhhh, what a concept.

    Experienced Free Agent > Unproven rookie anyway so who cares about draft picks.


    Bush had over 1500 all purpose yards with 8 Touchdowns. He had over 80 receptions and he had 5 touchdowns in the month of December which is the most important month of football leading up to the playoffs. He also had a pretty good post season as well yet you consider him a 3rd down back.

    Then you factor in that teams have to respect Bush in the flats. He's a threat in the rushing, receiving, and return game. Teams usually have to put a spy on him and that clearly opens things up for Colston, Henderson, McAlister, etc...

    Mark Tauscher was a 7th round pick and start majority of the games his rookie year. Explain him?. Mark Anderson was a 5th round pick and finished ahead of A.J. Hawk in rookie of the year voting this year. Yet rookies are useless.


    Is it because your statement of useless draft picks does not make sense right now?

    You statement....

    All we have to do is this, trade our first round pick for Randy Moss. Then, the money we would have spent on that first rounder, spend it on a free agent. Ahhhhh, what a concept.

    By your concept the Vikings should of traded their 1st round pick for someone like Herman Moore. Moore is nothing but an example. Had the Vikings did that then they would of never gotten Randy Moss and probably never of reached two NFC Title Games in 3 years.

    I never said we had Herman Moore. Your statement

    Im just fine with that to be honest. I'll take 3 - 4 great years out of Moss and when he loses his skills, we cut him. What a concept.

    That's your concept. According to your concept we should trade a 1st for Moss and let him go when his skills decline. Put that concept to work say in 1998 and instead of the Packers let's go with the Minnesota Vikings. Trade their 1st for a proven veteran coming off a solid season. My example is Herman Moore. You give up your 1st for this proven veteran and he records a grand total of 1,600 in four seasons. Did you get good value for your pick then? Probably not especially when Randy Moss for example comes in and has about 5,500 yards in four seasons. The Vikings traded their 1st so no Randy Moss. What could of been? It's a flawed concept. It does not work one way and it never will.

    I want Moss as well but not for a first rounder. He could just as easily be cut after the draft and the Packers could sign him that way since as you stated Moss is dying to play for us.

    Some quotes from you. Just one of your posts too.

    Draft picks are useless for the most part.

    Experienced Free Agent > Unproven rookie anyway so who cares about draft picks.


    How did Peyton Manning work out? How did Randy Moss turn out? You want to jump on getting Moss. How was he his rookie year? Who's to say Moss turns out like Herman Moore and Ted Ginn ends up being like Randy Moss? Now I'm not saying that's going to happen but it is a possibility.

    Ted Thompson has been here two years. He has A.J. Hawk who had a pretty good rookie year and Aaron Rodgers. It's a little early to judge but it's a little early to write either off especially Hawk. I think Rodgers is a bust so I'd say he's 1 for 2 right now.

    However it does not work one way. Look at the Colts recent history of first round picks. Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai, Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, and Reggie Wayne. Not bad.
     
  21. flapackfan

    flapackfan Cheesehead

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    Javon Walker(no longer with the team) and Nick Barnett are pretty good players. Great like Moss, no. The rest of them were decent professionals but not great. The verdict is still out on A.J. Hawk.

    I would bet that Moss has more Pro Bowls then all of those guys combined although i have not even counted or anything.

    My point :), was not that the draft was useless and we should dump all our picks.

    My point :), was not to dump on all of our past draft picks, i loved all of them except for T-Buck and A-Caroll.

    My point :), was that its not such a HUGE GAMBLE to trade a 2nd or 1st round pick for a player of Moss's capabilities.

    That was my point.

    No i dont basically say draft picks are useless.

    If you guys would read entire posts instead of taking one thing i say into consideration, you wouldnt say things like you just said.
     
  22. flapackfan

    flapackfan Cheesehead

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    Oh god its so annoying to respond to these comments.

    Uhhh, Reggie Bush 1500 all purpose yards for 50 million?
    He had 565 rushing yards, 3.6 yards per carry and you are going to argue with me that he was worth the money? You are ridiculous.


    You wanna bring up 7th rounders and 5th rounders that worked out for us and tell me my theory is wrong of trading draft picks. Are you a retard? The fact that nobody else on our team is better than these guys does not mean they are great success stories. How many pro bowls do they have? Anyway in case you werent paying attention last few times i said it, my point is not to trade every draft pick we ever have for veterans. I was obviously exagerating when i said trade all of this year and all of next years picks for Moss.

    My point was that it is not the end of the world to trade a first rounder for Randy Moss. With our history of drafting in the first round, it is safe to say we are not going to draft the next Reggie White or Brett Favre and the loss of that pick can be had via free agency if we look hard enough. Just sign an O-lineman instead of drafting one. Sign a linebacker instead of drafting. Last time i checked, draft picks are not free. They still have to be paid. Should we not draft anyone so we can save cap space? Better then grooming all our draft picks just so they can bolt during free agency and demand to be traded when we refuse to pay them what they are worth. I mean what the hell, we had Javon Walker. The fact he isnt on the team anymore is crazy. Teams take care of their superstars. We took care of Brett Favre. Colts take care of Manning, Harrison & Wayne. Why you ask, because without Manning Harrison & Wayne, they would turn into the Green Bay Packers, a mediocre 8 - 8 team. But they are not stupid like packer management and they know these things. They dont go into a season with no offensive line, crap tight end, rookie starting receiver. They know what they are doing.

    Finally, you bring up Peyton Manning. Have you lost your damn mind??? Is there a Peyton Manning quality player out there right now that we could get with the 16th pick?? Get a life man and learn to take it like a man when you lose an argument.

    Scoreboard
     
  23. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    SCORE BOARD - Porky -1 Flapack- 0
     
  24. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    It's a fact. Look up the statistics. Also how do you define his value? He did a lot more than just put up numbers. The fact is teams paid attention to him and game planned for him. If he's not worth the money now he could be next year or the year after. Also this is not about Reggie Bush at all. It's about Bush contributing as a draft pick. Your statement of most draft picks are useless is completely inaccurate and if you want I could get technical about it and state that just about every player in the league today was a draft pick.

    1st calling any member a retard is a sign of immaturity and is against forum policy. Let alone calling a moderator one.

    2nd What if Randy Moss' career takes a drop in production like Herman Moore's did and Ted Ginn Jr. has a career like Randy Moss’ right from the get go? I'm not stating it will happen but it certainly can and Ginn does have a lot of upside.

    At least you'll admit your exaggeration.

    Ted Thompson has been here for two years. You keep saying history. Last I checked Ted Thompson is not Ron Wolf. He is not Mike Sherman. He is not Vince Lombardi. He has been here for two years. Why do you bring up things that Ted Thompson is not responsible for? Such as drafting Tony Mandrich. What does that prove. Are you really implying because the Packers have had some sub par 1st round draft picks in the past that they are damn for all eternity in the 1st round?

    Did I say there was a Peyton Manning out there? Was Tom Brady a 6th round pick thought to be Peyton Manning at the time he was drafted? How about Terrell Davis a 6th rounder? Carson Palmer was a 1st round pick. Dan Marino was a late 1st round pick. I keep bringing up points and challenging your concept yet you ignore them and call me a retard. Yet you win? Failing to look both ways is a sign of ignorance my friend.
     
  25. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Point taken gents, you both Porky and Flapackfan have made your points, let it go and move one.....
     
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