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Thompson had worst 2011 & 2012 drafts in NFL

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Sunshinepacker, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    The thread title is intentionally a little sensational only because I would like to hear how people feel about Thompson in light of the recent poor drafts this team has had. ESPN just posted an article following the Worthy trade that points out the Packers have the lowest percentage of draft picks from the 2011 & 2012 drafts still on the team in the entire NFL. Only 39% of our draft picks from those two drafts (7 out of 18) are still on the team. Every other team in the NFL has a higher percentage. For a team that's supposedly built through the draft, that's a very concerning fact.

    I'm not trying to start a Thompson sucks thread, I still think he's a good GM. I just think that fans are kind of sitting on the past when it comes to evaluating him. He picked Rodgers, which was awesome. However, as I've said before, when you have one of the three best QBs in the NFL, he can cover up a ton of flaws on the team. How much of the team's success is really Thompson and how much is Rodgers? I mean, it would be hard to build a team around Rodgers that DOESN'T make the playoffs.

    The article is at: http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/11928/packers-2011-and-2012-drafts-fall-short
     
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  2. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    If you want to give out success factor to rodgers would that not trickle down to TT in a way? I think any and all success of the team directly translates back to the GM, he had the say in the players picked. ALL teams have good and bad draft picks, that is a fact. Have we had consistantly winning seasons for over 2 decades? Yes..... that is all that matters to me.
     
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  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Whats the overall average for entire time as GM
     
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  4. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    I would also like to know what are the stats on all college players picked in the first 3 rounds becoming overall NFL studs? I would have to say the % is very low.
     
  5. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I just addressed this in another thread. 2011 and 2012 are Thompson's worst by far, but are balanced out by outstanding drafts like his 2010, what's looking like a great 2013, and 2006. By my calculations, TT is just slightly behind Ron Wolf's draft success rate as Packers' GM.
     
  6. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    Add the UDFA's and look at the net result of those years first year players though. Picking up guys like Shields, Barclay, Richardson, Bostick and even Banjo is impressive.

    Does anyone know if they have different scouts assigned to "day one talent" , "day 2 talent".....and so on up to UDFA's because if they do I would keep moving that UDFA guy up the chart.
     
  7. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Player Personnel
    This is the list of the packers employees who have anything to do with scouting. They list their "assignment" but not that detailed.
     
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  8. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    I think it should take into account players who have left and done well on other teams.

    I have no idea how it would effect the results for any team, but could be an important factor.

    For example, just looking at the top of the list with the Redskins, Texans, and Raiders in 3 of the top 4, players who could make their teams might be cut by good teams like the Packers and Patriots.
     
  9. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/11928/packers-2011-and-2012-draft


    With Worthly now being declared Worthless, and pawned off to Foxboro, now just 2 years after the draft, only 3 of the 8 players the team selected in 2012 are still with the Packers:
    1st rounder Nick Perry, who has done more in the trainers room than on the field, and who now has been working with the third-string defense for much of camp;

    Casey Hayward, who missed all but 3 games last year with a hamstring injury; and Mike Daniels, a 4th -round pick who had a fine season last year and hopefully will build on that this year.

    After a 2011 draft that have only 4 players (tackle Derek Sherrod, wide receiver Randall Cobb, cornerback Davon House and tight end Ryan Taylor) that are still on the Packers’ 90-man training-camp roster, the Packers now have only 7 of their 18 picks from the 2011 and 2012 drafts on their team.


    And realize this: Sherrod has still yet to ever start a game, only has played a few snaps. Bad luck with injuries.
    Cobb has been great, when on the field. It's not his fault Matt Elam cheap-shotted him last year in the knee, breaking his leg.

    Ryan Taylor is just a special teams guy.
    And Davon House was taken later in the draft, but Seattle took a different CB named Richard Sherman a few picks after Thompson selected the finesse House. Has House made the Packers a better defense? Has the Mouth made Seattle a better defense?


    That 38.9 percent retention rate is the worst in the NFL over that two-draft span, and most of them have made little contributions.

    You can't get better if your new guys don't make you better.

    It's no wonder why Thompson deviated from his normal draft-only this off-season and brought in Peppers. Some called it a "desperation" move. Others, me included, praise it.

    SOMETHING has to be done to make this defense better.
    I still wish they would have addressed the ILB position earlier somehow.

    This is why our team was SO bad most of the time when Rodgers was out last year.
    The roster looked like crap, and that's being kind.

    [​IMG]
    503 - 56 Yardage.
    You don't even see that in an Alabama vs Middle Tennessee State game.
    We saw it on Thanksgiving.
     
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  10. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Frank, Easy, boy, easy. :) I think we're in position for Championship # 14, don't you? From my perusal of the roster we have 9 players on the roster from 2011 and 12: Barclay, Boykin, Cobb, Daniels, Hayward, House, Lattimore, Perry, and Richardson. They all contribute, and are an important part of the team, imo. Who cares if they were drafted or free agents? TT has my vote as a great GM.
     
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  11. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Well, yes if A) the defense steps up big time, somehow someway, B) Rodgers stays healthy

    A) Ted has hand-picked replacements at S (McMillian), ILB (Terrell Manning), OLB (Nick Perry), DE/DT (Worthy) who have simply done nothing. We've gone backwards because of those picks. Those are facts. I do applaud him for going with Peppers this year, no matter how that plays out.

    B) Rodgers stays healthy. Sure the Broncos, Saints, Patriots, Cows can all say that regarding their starting QBs.
    But this roster is not great. TT is not a great GM based on everything. Great, IMO, are teams like the Patriots who had a Super Bowl team in 2001 with Bledsoe, who went out injured, and the new guy came in and guided them to the Super Bowl win. Brady, the 6th round pick.
    Then they were so good that Matt Cassell started 15 games for them after Brady tore his ACL in the opening game, and Cassell went 10-5 as a starter. Those were great teams. Teams.

    Even the Bears last year did just as good with their journeyman backup QB McCown.

    We are Rodgers.

    Without Rodgers, well, we were not even in the same league as the Lions last year.
    We couldn't even beat the Vikings in Green Bay.

    Without Rodgers, we were atrocious, going winless at home vs Minnesota, Chicago, Philly, Pittsburgh, plus the blowout loss at Detroit, and losing at the Giants, who sucked last year against everyone else.

    We can give TT the credit for taking Rodgers.
    And we can forgive him for the BS amount of key injuries. They are not excuses. They are valid. Losing Collins, a great pick, was devastating and unbelievable. Losing BACK TO BACK FIRST ROUND bookend OTs to ACLs, hips, or broken legs, that's BS too. The Niners OL has not had to deal with that.

    But TT also is the guy who gets the blame when the team without Rodgers looks like the 1976 Buccaneers.
    And they did last year under his #2 QB and #3 QBs.

    It's a tricky thing because Rodgers is so great.
     
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  12. Nerdmann

    Nerdmann Cheesehead

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    Ted's doing fine. These guys are not on our team anymore, because they're not good enough to crack our roster, thanks to Ted Thompson. Most of them are still in the league.

    Ted finds the best undrafted FAs around too. And he signs his own guys, despite people saying he doesn't sign FAs.
     
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  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Do I hear an echo?

    Perhaps it's coincidence that draft success went downhill with Schneider's departure, but I think not. Losing McKenzie didn't help either. And then Dorsey went to KC, flipped a staggering 30+ roster spots in one season, and turned a 2-14 squad into an 11-5 playoff team. Oh, yeah, I forgot...I've been told KC had a weak first half schedule. Sheesh.

    I wonder how many NFL teams will begin the season without their last 4 first round picks in the starting lineup? We might well be one.
     
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  14. Sanguine camper

    Sanguine camper Cheesehead

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    Quit making sense the Homers don't like facts
     
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  15. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Find me a team that is offense driven, loses their 1st and 2nd string QBs, and does as well as we did
     
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  16. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    oh and his protege just won a SB
     
  17. Powarun

    Powarun Big Bay Blues fan

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    So is Ted now supposed to draft 3 teams every season? One for starters to be injured, two for the second set of starters that will take place right after the wave of injuries, third for OMG I am so thankful for riding the pine all season yet could be a starter on another team. The Packers are still doing pretty well, and the Packers have been very unfortunate of having injuries, yet they are still contenders.
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Wolf's protege, I think you meant to say.

    Schneider joined the Packers scouting department in 1993 and worked for Wolf for 7 years. I seem to recall he was an intern in the Packers scouting department for a couple of years before that. He moved on to be Director of Pro Personnel for the Chiefs for 4 years. Then he served one year under Holmgren/Thompson in Seattle as Director of Player Personnel. He followed that with 1 year as VP of Player Personnel with the Redskins. Then he was back to the Packers under Thompson.

    That's a long resume, going around the league, with positions of authority over personnel decisions long before his more recent extended stay with the Packers under Thompson.

    He can scout the h*ll out of a draft board, and he first learned the craft under Wolf just as Thompson had.

    While Thompson is nearly 2 decades older than Schneider, they're professional contemporaries in the scouting game, Schneider starting in 1993 (if you don't count the internship) and Thompson in 1992.
     
  19. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I think the "firetedthompson.com" website no longer exists.
    Just sayin....
     
  20. AKCheese

    AKCheese Cheesehead

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    I'll take a Super Bowl any way we can get it, but let's be honest. Green Bay got into the playoffs with help on the last day then got " hot in the tourney" other than that they haven't made much playoff noise since Rodgers took over (i.e. The real Thompson Packers). I think people got a bit too giddy after the Super Bowl and 15-1 regular season and might be getting to down regarding the disappointments since. You don't build a team with UDFA, though they are important to be sure. I'd say the fact that his draft picks have not only not made the team for a couple years, they haven't made the NFL, is concerning. Let's face it, without Rodgers last year we were not a playoff caliber team, we were terrible. Kind of like the latter Favre years, with him there's always a chance, without him we're a 5-11 team (my estimate). All in all a good team with Rodgers healthy, fun to watch, and they have a better chance than most teams to go all the way, that's pretty good for any football fan.
     
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  21. TeamTundra

    TeamTundra Cheesehead

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    You forgot to mention the Chiefs had five Pro Bowlers on their roster the year before
    Dorsey arrived in KC. Once the Chiefs got to the playoffs their overrated defense
    Was exposed. They will be hard pressed to make the playoffs this year with their
    Free agent losses.
     
  22. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's a odd way to look at it when the #2 you speak of was Seneca Wallace. Things looked up a bit when we secured a real #2.

    The un-spun version of the question is, "what was our record with the #3 QB".

    Under our #3, Tolzien, our record was either 0-2 (including the Nov. 10 game where he played almost the entire thing after Wallace limped off). I give the MIN tie to Flynn since he played most the game after Tolzien started and was mercifully pulled.

    There likely were not many teams that dipped into their #3, but I think they couldn't do worse than no wins.

    But since you asked, the Bills lost their presumptive #1 Kevin Kolb to a career-ending off-the-field slip-and-fall injury (or so the story goes...I seen to recall it was in the locker room, not Walmart, by the way). The #2, rookie Manual, who had all of 20 snaps in preseason due to injury, got hurt again in game 5 with #3 Jeff Tuell finishing up, taking his first NFL snaps in the process. Tuell looked decent in preseason earning the #3 job but was nowhere ready for prime time based on this cup of coffee.

    Tuell was so bad in relief they went to Thad Lewis the following week, the #4, in their next 3 games. Lewis was brought in two weeks before the season started as the new #3 after the aforementioned injuries.

    I seem to recall it was in the Tuell/Lewis period the Bills auditioned Flynn.

    So, this #4 guy Lewis lost in OT to CIN, beat MIA, and lost to NO for a 1-2 record against some decent competition.

    I happen to live in Buffalo so it's a little hard to avoid noting the QB train wreck of last season. I know a lot less about the week-to-week details of most of the other teams where "Tolzien outperformance" might be documented.
     
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I think we had this discussion before.

    You can cut that any way you like, but a 30+ roster turnover and a 9 game swing in the won/loss record speaks for itself. He brought in a QB who could win games and by seasons end there were several starters out of the new 30 guys installed. There will be more this year.

    Besides, he brought in Andy Reid as well...to get those Pro Bowlers to actually win games behind his new competent game manager QB.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    In many quarters it simply isn't sinking in. Here are the first scouting job hire dates of certain GB personnel who went on to become GMs:

    Dorsey: 1991
    Thompson: 1992
    Schneider: 1993
    McKenzie: 1994

    All Wolf hires, all scouting contemporaries, all mentored by Wolf six or more years, all departed for GM jobs between 2010 and 2013, Thompson excepted of course..
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    There's irony in that. After getting rid of Favre I would have endorsed "givethompsonamedal.com".

    Now, it should be "thompsonshouldhiresomescouts.com"
     

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