This pretty much sums it up

[pyledriver80]

Lare, I think the problem almost all of us have with this thread is that it is counting the draft picks out based on... nothing.

We aren't arguing that these picks have made us into Superbowl players, because we know it isn't true.

We are arguing that these picks, deserve a chance, because they have talent.

When you start posting a bunch of posts and articles from other sites based on them arguing that the players were a terrible choice based on college records, it's not exactly logical.

We understand that people won't like the picks, but we don't mind that as long as people (like LambeauLeaper) say they are willing to give them a chance.

If people have problems with the draft picks, list them. Then others will come around and try to explain why their problems shouldn't be too worrying.

If you come and say the picks are terrible, TT is bad and these picks are proof.... then you can't really debate with such people.

When certain posters start coming here and saying "I've not gonna be a Packer fan after Favre retires", and basically start slitting their wrists over the draft based on exactly 0 NFL downs the picks have played, it is absurd.

AADP, it goes both ways. I think its unfair to state how GREAT these guys are going to be just like you think it's absurd to write them off.

They may be decent players someday, but someday can go on forever and I don't want to win a Super Bowl "someday" I want to win now!

The only thing I know for sure is GB did VERY VERY little to improve this years team. I'm tired of putting my faith in 6th round picks. As Lare said, it a great underdog story, but this isn't Wonderland.

 

[bozz_2006]

their is no such thing as a sure thing in the draft. we could've gotten calvin johnson, adrian peterson, joe thomas, etc. and this conversation still be just as irrelevant as it is right now.

 

[Packnic]

their is no such thing as a sure thing in the draft. we could've gotten calvin johnson, adrian peterson, joe thomas, etc. and this conversation still be just as irrelevant as it is right now.

thats exactly right... no one knows

 

[all about da packers]

AADP, it goes both ways. I think its unfair to state how GREAT these guys are going to be just like you think it's absurd to write them off.

They may be decent players someday, but someday can go on forever and I don't want to win a Super Bowl "someday" I want to win now!

Yeah I agree, but more than anything we are excited at these picks coming in. We are excited because they have the potential (certainly talent) to become great.

No one is saying these picks equal a Superbowl run this season, but most of us think they will help in a Superbowl run eventually.

Winning now would be great, but unfortunately (for whatever reason) it isn't possible. Ted came in here with a long-term plan, and while the plan itself may not work out, simply going off that plan to win now may be an even bigger disaster.

The only thing I know for sure is GB did VERY VERY little to improve this years team. I'm tired of putting my faith in 6th round picks. As Lare said, it a great underdog story, but this isn't Wonderland.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You haven't even seen a draft pick play a single snap in the NFL, and you are jumping to conclusions.

Many people said they didn't see how Jennings would help last year, but he did (until his injury, but you can't really blame Ted for that).

We got WRs and a RB (all before the 6th round mind you) to help our O out. Will they? Well they'll be given every opportunity to, and most of us think they will.

I don't think we're exactly putting all our faith into the two LBs and K drafted in the 6th round.

We put our faith into Jason Spitz, Daryn Colledge, Greg Jennings, and AJ Hawk to help improve our team last year, and they did.

Brett Favre is a member of the Packers, and thus what is good for the Packers as a team is also good for Brett Favre, the player on the Packers.

 

[vikesrule]

...We are excited because they have the potential....

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[OregonPackFan]

good luck with your injury prone RB

 

[all about da packers]

...We are excited because they have the potential....

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

:rotflmao:


I'm sure the Vikes know all about unfilled potential. :thumbsup:

 

[warhawk]

Pyle wrote,

They may be decent players someday, but someday can go on forever and I don't want to win a Super Bowl "someday" I want to win now!

So do the rest of us. The DIFFERENCE is some here recognize that counting on DRAFT PICKS from THIS YEARS draft to get us there is unrealistic.

What you really should be *****ing about is all the ****** draft picks three years back and more that are NOT HERE now and NOT helping us get to that SB you want so bad.

Of course the last guy in charge could do nothing wrong and all of this is on the new guy who of course brought all 53 players with him and EVERYTHING that hasn't gone smooth since he got here is all on him.

Super Bowl teams REFLECT BACK on drafts that turned things around and got that team going in the right direction. They don't count on this last one getting them there.

What is KILLING us now is **** poor drafting three, four, and five, years ago and not kids we have just drafted that haven't played a frigging down for us yet or have only been in the league a couple years and all their best play is still in front of them

Your chopping off the head of the wrong horse here buddy.

 

[digsthepack]

Easy warhawk........your logic and footing in reality does not bode well with some here as it pertains to the team that TT took over after "Crapshoot" Sherman and his highly refined draft strategies took its toll on our roster.

 

[vikesrule]

good luck with your injury prone RB

My deepest apologies OregonPackFan. :bow:

How about, "The Packers had the best draft of any team!"

Feel better? :razz:

 

[Pack93z]

What you really should be *****ing about is all the ****** draft picks three years back and more that are NOT HERE now and NOT helping us get to that SB you want so bad.

Please tell me what the 05' class is doing for us now?

2003
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State - Starting LB - Pro Bowl Possible?
3 79 Kenny Peterson DE Ohio State
5 147 James Lee NT Oregon State
5 166 Hunter Hillenmeyer OLB Vanderbilt - Starting LB for Bears
6 212 Brennan Curtin T Notre Dame
7 245 Chris Johnson CB Louisville
7 253 DeAndrew Rubin WR South Florida
7 256 Carl Ford WR Toledo
7 257 Steve Josue LB Carson-Newman

2004
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
3 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State
3 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson
3 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State
6 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas State Starter DT
7 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee Starting C

2005
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California
2 51 Nick Collins FS Bethune-Cookman - Starter S
2 58 Terrence Murphy WR Texas A&M
4 115 Marviel Underwood SS San Diego State
4 125 Brady Poppinga OLB Brigham Young Starter LB
5 143 Junius Coston T North Carolina A&T
5 167 Michael Hawkins CB Oklahoma
6 180 Mike Montgomery DE Texas A&M
6 195 Craig Bragg WR UCLA
7 245 Kurt Campbell LB Albany, N.Y.
7 246 William Whitticker G Michigan State

My point here isn't that Ted Sucks... it is that so far his 05 class hasn't given us much more than the previous two classes. So tell me where the improvement is? I don't see much more of an improvement than previous.

I haven't said much since the draft mostly because I was out of town, but it looks pretty clear that we drafted potential improvements to the team. Yep we haven't seen them on the field yet, but this draft looks alot like Sherman's draft's of looking for gems, the only difference I see is Ted trades down to grab more gambles on players and Sherman's traded half of the picks away to trade up on gambles.

PS... I see how we are spending all the penney's under the cap, giving bonuses to 20 rookies in which half may or may not make the roster :rotflmao:

 

[TOPackerFan]

Wow, that 2003 draft looks terrible doesn't it?

 

[Pack93z]

Oh and I know I am going to hear, what else was Ted suppose to do but take Rodgers... It is called pass on him, he did it with Quinn falling...

 

[Pack93z]

Lets go back another year...

2002
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 20 Javon Walker WR Florida State - Pro Bowl WR
3 92 Marques Anderson FS UCLA
4 135 Najeh Davenport RB Miami - Decent RB for Steelers last year- but couldn't stay healthy here.
5 156 Aaron Kampman DE Iowa - Starting DE
5 164 Craig Nall QB Northwestern State, La. - 2nd Qb Bills
6 200 Mike Houghton T San Diego State

Too bad we didn't keep Walker huh.. who's GM watch was that again when he didn't get paid? Driver, Walker and Jennings would look good right now

 

[MassPackersFan]

We are really paying for the '03 and '04 drafts right now. 1 starter in '03 and 1 starter and situational DT in '04.

'05 we got our next QB and 2 starters.. maybe 3 if Underwood is as good as we think he could be.
'06 speaks for itself.

 

[Pack93z]

So do the rest of us. The DIFFERENCE is some here recognize that counting on DRAFT PICKS from THIS YEARS draft to get us there is unrealistic.

Sorry ... got a little distracted with the whole ****** draft theory is all on Sherman but golly we sure cleaned house on the 05' draft ...

But to me, this is the flaw in Ted's approach so far, he is relying on the current drafts players to fill in holes immediately.. so this year looks just like last year... we will struggle early on because we are forcing rookies into the lineup because we HAVE TO.

Do we have any idea who will start at:

RB?
FB?
#2 or #3 WR? Can Jennings stay healthy?
SS?
TE?

We didn't solidify any of the major holes in the starting lineup... we drafted potential. Can someone step up, they better cause the chances of having another Randy Moss drop in and out of our laps isn't going to happen on June 1 cuts.

Another poke and hope offseason for the Packers dating back until the days of Ron Wolf. Yes I don't think Sherman was the answer either. But so far Ted looks better suited in the Scouting department than the GM.

 

[MassPackersFan]

I take it you don't ascribe to the theory that competiton at positions is good?

RB: Jackson/Morency split time
FB: Miree/Powdrell compete
WRs: Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Clowney, Ferguson (K Rob later maybe)
SS: Underwood/Manuel/Rouse compete
TE: Bubba/Harris/Alcorn complete and split

 

[cheesey]

Picking at #16 put them in a bad place to begin with. But the REAL fact is, NO ONE knows for 100% certain who will turn out to be a great player, and who will crash and burn.
Just go over all the first round drafts for the last 10 years, and see how many of them really made it, or how many of them are already gone. For every Peyton Manning, there is a Ryan Leaf.
None of us (Or any of the journalists) knows if the Packer picks this year will be good or lousy.
Truth is, only time will tell.
And whether we like it or not, thats the ONLY way to tell how good or bad this draft is.
And the Packers will go on after Favre is long gone.
Not that I WANT him to leave, but it also is gonna happen whether we like it or not. He's getting VERY old by NFL QB standards.

 

[tromadz]

What you really should be *****ing about is all the ****** draft picks three years back and more that are NOT HERE now and NOT helping us get to that SB you want so bad.

Please tell me what the 05' class is doing for us now?

2005
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California
2 51 Nick Collins FS Bethune-Cookman - Starter S
2 58 Terrence Murphy WR Texas A&M
4 115 Marviel Underwood SS San Diego State
4 125 Brady Poppinga OLB Brigham Young Starter LB
5 143 Junius Coston T North Carolina A&T
5 167 Michael Hawkins CB Oklahoma
6 180 Mike Montgomery DE Texas A&M
6 195 Craig Bragg WR UCLA
7 245 Kurt Campbell LB Albany, N.Y.
7 246 William Whitticker G Michigan State

well, 2 are starters, one of them a possible allpro(Collins, but we'll see). 1 is a dimeback at this time. 3 of them had injuries and are gone(I still feel bad for T-Murph). 1 of them is probably going to be the strong safety in 2007 (Underwood was doing well before getting hurt, as was culver. I think manuel nancy kerrigan'd them) And 1 is\was the potential future QB of the team if Favre ever leaves but he isn't because he's immortal.

For the man's FIRST NFL Draft as a GM, it's not too shabby. Some Starters, and some depth. lol.

 

[Pack93z]

I take it you don't ascribe to the theory that competiton at positions is good?

RB: Jackson/Morency split time
FB: Miree/Powdrell compete
WRs: Driver, Jennings, Jones, Martin, Clowney, Ferguson (K Rob later maybe)
SS: Underwood/Manuel/Rouse compete
TE: Bubba/Harris/Alcorn complete and split

It isn't that I don't subscribe to the theory, but each year especially at WR we bring in a bunch of guys, the youngsters are kept. Everyone tauted how good Martin and Bodiford could become. Fine take our lumps with teh youngsters and let them develop. But apparently Ted and company don't think they have that much talent cause we added 2 more via the draft.

But we lowly fans are suppose to believe that Ted pulled out all the stops to give us the best shot at winning as he could. Come on, pull the curtains back on the Thompson puppet show... he didn't bring in experienced talent to provide some makeshift weapons for us to use while the young talent develops like most do... he ran body after body onto the roster hoping someone would pull a Gado in the WR last year. This is year three of this.

 

[warhawk]

The point of my entire post was that MS did very little to shape the CURRENT roster with a solid number of core players that have the same ability of our competitors.

You do, I hope, understand that the very list you have shown here is PITIFUL.

Testimony of this is putting up Hillenmeyer in bold letters as if THAT has done us any good in getting back to the SB. If ANYTHING that move made them look even more rediculous.

You also talk about an injured player (Davenport) not reaching his potential while ripping the '05 draft where we lost Murphy and then Underwood, so far, which would have made that a very solid draft.

Then you go on to identify Williams who is the VERY GUY I pointed as
an average player that WILL NOT be the quality player we need to make a playoff run. Hello?

Now go pull up the BEARS draft picks in '02.'03,'04, '05 and not only see how badly they KICKED OUR *** but look at the number of THREE and FOUR year veterans from those drafts carrying them to the playoffs.

That's how you build a SB team thru the draft.

Sorry but draft picks two years and in are not the guys that get you to the SB. It's the guys you built your team around previous to that who are at the level needed to get you there.

It must be very confusing for those of you who blame the players brought onto this team over the last couple of years hearing a coach talk about the draft from a past year which was the class that EVENTUALLY made them SB champs.

How ironic that those coaches NEVER say that class was from the previous year.

 

[Pack93z]

And if you read my posts... I don't think Sherman did us any favors... but can you say that Thompson's drafts have given us more. Taut the 06' class all you would like, so far it looks excellent. But we shall see with another year or two if the 3 Olineman continue to develop or take the path of one William Whitticker.

But his first draft here hasn't given us much more than the previous classes.... Everyone tauts how he built the Seahawks... so he had experience in the draft before so his first draft nonsense shouldn't be an argument.

All I am saying, and this past draft and offseason haven't proven otherwise, is that I don't see the end to Thompson's plan. To me, this is the year that either Thompson shines or wilts under the quantity plan.

Just like Randy Moss... I am not sold on Ted and this years team. God knows that I hope they prove me wrong. Please

 

[Chamuko]

Oh wait theres more


http://www.madison.com/tct/sports/packers/index.php?ntid=131644&ntpid=2
.

Pyle...

Dont lose your time, iether you agree with TT 100% and worship him or you are a !"·$%% id1ot that has a bean for brain.

I am sorry that this is ending like it is, we should all e entitled to our own opinion and should be able to have rational discussions..

Anyway I think TT will fail and it will cost the team a bunch of years..

Time will tell

 

[tromadz]

but can you say that Thompson's drafts have given us more.

Taut the 06' class all you would like, so far it looks excellent. But we shall see

lol, that's not fair. you want people to show\prove his drafts are good, then say we can't cuz it's too early(which i agree with). But which is it? Prove it, or wait and see?

Lets just wait and see.

But as Packers fans (flap,pyle don't fit) while we wait and see who is good and who is a bust, lets ROOT for them, and root the scouts did a good job, and root that management didn't mess up.

 

[warhawk]

When you are put in what amounts to a no win situation with your #1 draft pick you are going to take a hit.

What will eventually define the '05 draft is ARod and how he does when he get's his chance.

As it turned out we could have actually waited a couple years and watched another highly rated QB fall in our laps which would have freed up that #1 pick for somebody that would have at least been given a chance to play.

NO ONE has a crystal ball that could work that good! Trust me, I am damn glad BF has not given our '05 first round pick a chance yet. Works for me. You can't, however, pass on a guy when Brett's up in the air like that. With Brett' position unknown that pill, no matter how poisonous, had to be swallowed and it couldn't wait.

So far it's basically been as though we did not even get a first round pick in '05 and that will screw with your draft grade everytime. It's situations exactly like this that create the necessity to give draft classes at least three years before looking at how well it truly worked out.