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These 5 guys have to play big to return Lombardi Home

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, May 25, 2013.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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  2. fanindaup

    fanindaup Cheesehead

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    I'd agree. I'd also hope Bred Jones earns his new starter contract. I also expect big things from the 2012 draft class. I know Perry was mentioned, and a worthy may or may not get to play, but I'd hope that Manning and Daniels will also become key rotational players. Opportunity is knocking for UDFA's Richardson, Ross, Boykin and Barclay due to roster turnover and shuffling.
     
  3. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    Those 5 must play big? It is a team sport---- The Packers start with Rodgers----
     
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  4. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I pretty much agree with that article. If I had to add a sixth it would be Bulaga at LT. The article addressed Rodgers and Matthews.
     
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  5. fanindaup

    fanindaup Cheesehead

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    Not only did the article mention Rodgers and Matthews, the rest of us probably assumed our current stars would have to keep up their high level of play. At least I did. I was looking for people I thought might have a chance to step up this year who may not yet be household names.
     
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  6. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Yeah, and they ended with Rodgers too, last year, the year before, and 2 years before.
    He can't do it all.

    There are so many fans who think it's just about the QB, and that we always should win because we have Rodgers.
    Earth to all my Aunts: Rodgers cannot do it all by himself. Never has been able to, never will be able to.
     
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  7. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    IT is a team sport!!!!! These 5 may have PRO Bowl season. IT all starts and yes ends with Rodgers.
     
  8. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Negative, Ghost Rider.

    Bills & Patriots fans also can offer you a different perspective on that "ending with Rodgers" part.




    Same with Denver fans, last year. They got Manning. He had a great year. They had the Ravens clearly beaten, late, up 35-28 with 30+ seconds left, Flacco just taken down by Von Miller back at his own 30 yard line, 70 yards from paydirt.

    Then this, with Peyton watching on the sideline.

    You see, Rodgers' and Manning's can't kick, can't cover, can't tackle Kaepernick.

    Or is this what you mean by starting and ending with Rodgers?
    Because it, you're right, did end with Rodgers.


    Fact of the matter is the QB cannot do it all. Never has been able to, never will.
     
  9. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    The argument above seems to be more just a misunderstanding. I think what Dan correctly is pointing out, the A Number 1 MOST important piece of the puzzle is Aaron Rodgers - without him, not much good is gonna happen. However, the article and you other guys got it right too, as great as Rodgers is, we came up short last year with too weak a supporting cast. For the Packers to be a LOT better, the O Line needs a lot of improvement - Bulaga, as somebody said, Sherrod - I wish but kinda doubt, the side to side switch, etc. Having time for Rodgers to set up, having a running game to take the pressure off a little bit, etc. will help immensely. It's hard to say how much having better runners will make the line seem better, but one way or the other, it has to get better. As for all the defensive elements mentioned in the article, for sure, all or even some of them performing up to expectations will help extremely, but let's not forget, we won a Super Bowl with a far less than perfect defense, and we went 15-1 the next regular season with an almost pathetic defense. I guess my point is that having all the players come through in the article plus decent O Line play, all supporting Aaron Rodgers would go way beyond just the minimum needed to return to a Super Bowl. It would make the Packers unstoppable.
     
  10. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    Good discussion during off season. I think very hard to point out these 5 must must play big. It is the end of May. Would not be hard to have 3 of these guys injured by 1 Nov. It is a team sport. However, if Rodgers goes down in the opener. These 5 all make the pro bowl. I think a long season.
     
  11. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Right, if Rodgers does down ala Tom Brady in 2008, forget about a Super Bowl.
    Same, IMO, with Clay Matthews.... well unless Nick Perry blossoms into a superstar, as I believe he is capable of.

    That 2010 defense wasn't "great", but it was good, and it had Nick Collins at the back end, who I think was as good a safety IN THE NFL period, and entering his prime.
    And it had Cullen Jenkins on the front line, a rare DL who would get to the QB if single-blocked, so he commanded 2 guys almost every play... he is what helped open things up for the MLB blitz, for Howard Green to get to Big Ben, for BJ Raji to emerge.

    We tried to replace him with Neal 2 years ago, and with Worthy last year. Now we added Datone Jones, who has that skillset. And so does Neal, who we would love to stay healthy for a whole year.

    I am not a TT lover, but I do believe in these guys he has assembled. But we need some good fortune with the injuries to balance out the BS bad fortune from last year.

    All that aside, we need some guys to step up, and I believe those 5 mentioned in the article are 5 keys who can and will.
     
  12. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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  13. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO the fact that the article itself lists 6 players instead of 5 indicates the fallacy of the title. As others have posted, IMO the only indispensable Packer is Aaron Rodgers.

    If Bishop doesn’t “blossom up a level or two” what if Manning does? If Raji doesn’t, what if because others play DE well, Raji and Pickett only play NT and Pickett has his last great year there? What if two or three DL besides Raji (like Neal, Jones, and Daniels) get consistent pressure from inside the DL in sub packages? What if Burnett plays as he did last season and Jennings or McMillian “blossom up”? If it’s not Eddie Lacy, what if it’s Franklin and Harris? If it’s not Nick Perry, what if it’s Moses, or Palmer, or Mulumba?. If it’s not Jones, what if Neal fulfills his potential? What if Capers’ hinted at scheme changes actually work? What if the expected (by me at least) change in scheme and the re-shuffled OL makes the O as potent as it was in 2011 but more balanced?

    At this point in the season, no one would have predicted an UDFA would have made the contribution Sam Shields did in 2010. Who, if anyone, is this year’s Sam Shields?

    I expect some of the players mentioned in the article to play very well and I’m optimistic for the season ahead. And in spite of being a Packers fanatic, I think there are legitimate reasons for expecting better things from both sides of the ball - sans green and gold glasses. But IMO a benefit of Thompson’s way of building the team is the only indispensable Packer is Aaron Rodgers.

    BTW, Greene affirmed that Perry has all the physical gifts needed to excel. But in that interview he emphasizes that IF Perry has the burning desire to succeed he will. He also says Perry appears more focused and that’s good news but I don’t think Greene added anything we didn’t already know.
     
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  14. dansz15

    dansz15 Cheesehead

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    If they are going to pair players like Bishop and Raji, I would have to go Sitton/Bulaga/EDS. If Rodgers can get more time in the pocket and they OL can help establish a run game GB can control the ball for 38 minutes a game. I would love for opposing offenses to be forced to throw 70% of their downs IF Jones/Perry can be contributing pass rushers. Secondary would have a field day with picks.
     
  15. Lombardi'sGhost

    Lombardi'sGhost Cheesehead

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    The season is in trouble is Rodgers goes down - everyone forgets! TT needs to bring in an experienced backup. Has anyone heard any rumors on who may be available?
     
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  16. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    If your talking free agents no one who is better than we already have on the roster.
     
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  17. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Exactly. There are not these greatly capable veteran backup QB's available that people seem to think there are. I have no more confidence in Vince Young than I have in Graham Harrell. At least Harrell knows the system.

    I also like what I'm seeing out of BJ Coleman and think he is probably the backup of the future. This is what we do, we have our franchise QB, and we develop and groom capable backups like we did with Flynn. That's our approach, it's a smart approach and we will continue it. Anyone who is expecting us to go out and look for veteran backup QB's is going to be disappointed.
     
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  18. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    The only part of this article that I agree with is the two rookies. None of the arguments in this thread hold water. It's a given that Rodgers, Raji, Bishop, and all of our regulars need to have good seasons. Heck, the fans for every team are saying the same things on 31 other message boards.

    The real key to winning the Super Bowl aside from having your regulars play well and stay healthy, is that you need your worst players, the rookies, and the unknowns to step forward. A look back at our 2010 championship reveals that the emergence of the following players put us over the top: James Starks (rookie), Bryan Bulaga (rookie), Howard Green (unknown), Erik Walden (unknown), Frank Zombo (unknown), Jarrett Bush (worst), and Sam Shields (unknown). I'm probably even missing a few.

    I've coached and captained a lot of teams over the years and have certainly watched a lot of sports. I've learned that having the best players is not how you win championships - that's how you get to be a good team. To get over that last hump, you need your worst players to play better than the other team's worst players. Everyone sees the one-on-one battles of the elite players, but it's the little things that your "nobody" players do the rest of the time that determines championships. When a couple of drafted and undrafted rookies emerge out of nowhere, those teams make deep runs and win championships.
     
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  19. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I'd make a couple of adjustments to the list.

    On Burnett, Murphy begins his comments by saying, "I was going to put the other safety on here, whether that’s going to be M.D. Jennings, Jerron McMillian, or Sean Richardson." I think he should have done just that. An emerging #2 who, in essence, will be a reasonably well-rounded and consistent 3-down player will liberate Burnett to make plays, as Murphy suggests..

    I would be inclined to find a place for Tramon Williams in that list. He has not been the same player since the shoulder injury. He played away from his strength (press) last season and gave up a lot of throws underneath. My mid-season perception that he was not 100% recovered from possible nerve damage was borne out in Williams' post-season comment. I'm not expecting more from Perry than a bit of improvement over what we've seen, so I think I'd put Williams in his place (or House if he displaces him).
     
  20. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Williams now says he is back to 100 % from the shoulder injury.
     
  21. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    We proved in 2010 that you can survive a lot of losses (IR) and still come out on top.
    But there are guys more important than others.
    We learned the hard way how important Nick Collins was, Cullen Jenkins was, Desmond Bishop was.
    Finley proved not as important as feared. Woodson was very important, as evidenced in the Super Bowl game where the defense had a bottle on the Steelers for 29 minutes, but the 31 after his collar bone, it was totally different back there, as I saw in person and as the Big Ben passer rating before & after CW's departure showed.

    On that note, let's see each of you rank the top 10 guys in terms of indispensible. If we lose guys, these are the key 10 I think we need, and some of course are obvious. Also remember we are down to 3 veteran WRs. If we lose 1 or even 2 of them, it could get to the point where it was for Favre when Freeman and Brooks went down, when you have to rely on stiffs like Billy Schroeder, Mark Ingram, Sonjay Beach, etc. So I think those 3 WR's are very important to the synch of this offense.

    1. Rodgers
    2. Matthews
    3. Cobb
    4. Burnett
    5. *Perry
    6. Raji
    7. Jordy
    8. Tramon
    9. Bulaga
    10. Sitton

    *How the hell can I have Perry so high?
    Well this is why. I think the guy's upside is tremendous, Lamar Woodley potential --and if he hits that potential or close to it, this defense will rocket up another level.

    I almost put Datone Jones in that same category.

    Burnett is crucial because he's the captain back there, no Woodson, and behind him are all unproven youngsters. If Burnett goes down (remember he tore an ACL his rookie year and missed the whole season), that's all we'll be left with at S1, 2, 3 with the youngsters McMillian, Jennings, Richardson.

    I think EDS is very important too. If we get good center play, it will help the running game and Rodgers.
    Don't know who will win the RT position.

    Sam Shields was next on my list.
    With his speed, when his game is on, he's a weapon back there as Jay Cutler has learned the hard way.

    Raji needs to play well in the middle.
    Jordy is really the only deep threat with any experience, but it's harder for him to get deep now that the DB's don't take his pigment for granted like they did the first few years.

    Tramon needs to play smarter.

    Bulaga & Sitton are being counted on to anchor the important blind side now for the Franchise so they have to be good/great.
     
  22. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's not quite the way it's gone down.

    In The Fan interview in March that created a minor stir, Williams had been quoted as saying, "It could be a year, it could be two years to come back. And it’s made progress, but it’s still coming. So it’s one of those deals to where my shoulder’s still getting better at this point. I’m still working on it and hopefully it comes all the way back this year.”

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...011-shoulder-injury-still-hasnt-fully-healed/

    Now, in May, in response the The Fan interview fallout:

    "It was a couple different questions they asked from past years," Williams said. "It really wasn't much. It kind of hit the media like it was something today. But it was from the past. So it really wasn't anything. It was from when the injury happened. It kind of hit like it was something new, like something else happened. I did the interview telling them exactly what happened and they made it seem like it was new."

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/208371061.html

    I don't see The Fan interview making it sound at all like something "new". The point was Williams played in 2012 impaired by lingering nerve damage from the 2011 injury; the "news" was this fact had been suspected but not previously disclosed.

    Dunne's blog post concludes with:

    "It's better," Williams said. "Trust me. It's better than last year. But last year I was good. The structure was good. But when it comes to nerves, it's time. And there's nothing at all you can do about it. It's time. Time passes and it gets better, so I'm better."

    I see "better"...I don't see 100%...which is essentially what he said in The Fan interview in the first place. And once again, like last season, one must wonder if this is a case of disclaiming or hiding or downplaying an impairment (1) for competitive reasons...wanting opponents to think, if at all possible, you're 100% even if you're not and (2) not wanting to make excuses in advance if all does not go as planned, an admirable intention if that's the case.

    And lest we forget, injury recovery is largely an act of faith...you have to believe in it to make it happen...acknowledgment of the difficulties and setbacks only happen after the fact when they cannot be denied.

    The proof will be in the putting, when tackle football begins.
     
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  23. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Seems to me like TrayMon is trying to give himself an excuse in case he has some struggles.
    I love the guy and his cover skills, but maybe he's just a little thin/fraile?
    Like Shields and House, wirey guys.
     
  24. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    From what I've read there has been dramatic improvement in Williams shoulder after an off season of yoga, jump rope and weight lifting. Is he 100 %? Maybe or maybe not. With injuries especially you have to look at them in real time. A situation in March is probably not the same as it is as we near June.

    I believe he said 100 % in another interview I saw which I can't locate. Anyway here is an article that indicates the shoulder isn't an issue.
    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...f-packers-secondary-b9916596z1-208602621.html

    Saying he was hurt last year is something we all know and he acknowledges.
     
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  25. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    I'd go beyond your premise and say that what really would hurt would be clusters of injuries at positions, especially those where we are thin anyway. Following your lead, however, I'd have it like this:

    Obviously 1. and 2. Rodgers and Matthews.
    3. Sitton
    4. Bulaga
    5. Bishop (because we are so damn weak at ILB otherwise)
    6. Raji (even tho I don't much like him, but nobody else to replace him)
    7. Cobb (less high up because of the great depth - same with Jordy)
    8. Burnet
    9. Lacy (I'm assuming he will be all he's cracked up to be)
    10.Hayward

    I think Tramon is gonna come back and play like before the injury, and I think Shields will play like late last season - hoping for a big long term contract, but Hayward IMO is more indispensible because he's the only one of the three (or four with House) who has had success covering slot receivers.
     
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