There's only one question left...

[HardRightEdge]

...who gets fired.

 

[bubba]

No one of course. MM will have the same answer he has given the past 4 weeks. We just have to tackle better. Its not like were giving up huge yards every game Oh wait we are. Cant be the scheme can it? I mean we have that speedster AJ Hawk covering Bush 30 yards down the field. Now this don't seem like a case of bad tackling this is a scheme issue that should never happen. I mean this guy couldn't cover my grammy on a go route. Come on MM wake up this capers guy needs to go and he needs to go now today! I would give Kevin Green the job for the remainder of the year to see what he can do. He is a fiery guy and he is on the sidelines. Maybe he will put a little fear in these guys and get them to play better.

 

[longtimefan]

I mean we have that speedster AJ Hawk covering Bush 30 yards down the field. Now this don't seem like a case of bad tackling this is a scheme issue that should never happen. .

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/fire-capers.46268/page-16

Because our corners are covering the receivers. The issue isn't the scheme, none of our linebackers could cover Bush out of the backfield, that's one of the advantages that Bush brings. The Lions were dominating our dline and so we couldn't afford to take a LB off the field to bring in a corner to cover him.

We had a corner and safety on Johnson, another corner on the other WR and the safety on the TE, there wasn't anyone else to cover him. Also, Hawk was actually in position to make the play, it's not like Bush left him in the dust.

 

[JBlood]

There will be many changes, coaches and players, if the level of play continues on both sides of the ball. It all starts with the lines--we don't control either side of the LOS. And it doesn't matter what the defensive scheme is if players can't tackle. It's a pretty sad team right now.

 

[Lakedog]

No one of course. MM will have the same answer he has given the past 4 weeks. We just have to tackle better. Its not like were giving up huge yards every game Oh wait we are. Cant be the scheme can it? I mean we have that speedster AJ Hawk covering Bush 30 yards down the field. Now this don't seem like a case of bad tackling this is a scheme issue that should never happen. I mean this guy couldn't cover my grammy on a go route. Come on MM wake up this capers guy needs to go and he needs to go now today! I would give Kevin Green the job for the remainder of the year to see what he can do. He is a fiery guy and he is on the sidelines. Maybe he will put a little fear in these guys and get them to play better.

I'm with you Bubba. I don't want to see guys w 50's on their jerseys covering guys wearing 30's or 80's more Han 10 yards down field.

The injuries were an acceptable excuse for the first game when our dbacks were learning on the job, but their stats as a unit stink n there's been no improvement regardless of who's healthy.

My point here is it is so bad that a shake-up mid season is in order. A few weeks ago MM said it would change... The big plays keep on coming. Worst of all, Capers has gotten the priorities on the picks that he asked for after complaining that its so hard to find the perfect compliment to 52. And the front 7 can't stop crappy offenses.

Shake em this week! Or, wait til 1st wk of Jan.

 

[Bagadeez04]

I'm with you Bubba. I don't want to see guys w 50's on their jerseys covering guys wearing 30's or 80's more Han 10 yards down field.

The injuries were an acceptable excuse for the first game when our dbacks were learning on the job, but their stats as a unit stink n there's been no improvement regardless of who's healthy.

My point here is it is so bad that a shake-up mid season is in order. A few weeks ago MM said it would change... The big plays keep on coming. Worst of all, Capers has gotten the priorities on the picks that he asked for after complaining that its so hard to find the perfect compliment to 52. And the front 7 can't stop crappy offenses.

Shake em this week! Or, wait til 1st wk of Jan.

There are always going to be times, regardless of scheme, when an ILB is asked (in base or nickle man coverage) to cover a RB downfield. It happens all the time. The problem is we have a couple mediocre linebackers who aren't capable of covering RBs. Look at San Fran with P Willis and N Bowman...pretty sure both those guys will be competitive with most RBs in the league downfield.

While I believe Capers needs to go...it's not all his fault. The lack of talent throughout the middle of the defense is pretty striking when you think about it. Losing Collins and Bishop to injuries has hurt real bad. Injuries period have decimated this roster.

 

[adambr2]

The atrocities of the O-line are mostly a myth. The rushing attack is #8, the passing attack is still #7 after all these weeks without Rodgers, and they are around the middle of the pack in the NFL in sacks allowed. Everyone still just has Detroit fresh in their minds, but that's not a story of the entire season.

Given they haven't had Bulaga at all, they haven't been able to see what one of their 4th round picks can do, and the other 4th round pick has had to immediately start at tackle, I don't think we could ask for much more and that should give us hope in that area for the future.

Defense, defense, defense. The offense, at full strength, is good enough to win a Super Bowl. The defense is holding them back.

 

[Carl]

No one of course. MM will have the same answer he has given the past 4 weeks. We just have to tackle better. Its not like were giving up huge yards every game Oh wait we are. Cant be the scheme can it? I mean we have that speedster AJ Hawk covering Bush 30 yards down the field. Now this don't seem like a case of bad tackling this is a scheme issue that should never happen. I mean this guy couldn't cover my grammy on a go route. Come on MM wake up this capers guy needs to go and he needs to go now today! I would give Kevin Green the job for the remainder of the year to see what he can do. He is a fiery guy and he is on the sidelines. Maybe he will put a little fear in these guys and get them to play better.

Considering he covered Bush well on that play, but a good throw and catch beat the coverage, I bet he could cover your granny.

Rodgers and Jordy show all the time that good throws and catches beat good coverage.

 

[adambr2]

There are always going to be times, regardless of scheme, when an ILB is asked (in base or nickle man coverage) to cover a RB downfield. It happens all the time. The problem is we have a couple mediocre linebackers who aren't capable of covering RBs. Look at San Fran with P Willis and N Bowman...pretty sure both those guys will be competitive with most RBs in the league downfield.

While I believe Capers needs to go...it's not all his fault. The lack of talent throughout the middle of the defense is pretty striking when you think about it. Losing Collins and Bishop to injuries has hurt real bad. Injuries period have decimated this roster.

I agree about our MLB's....Again I am a TT fan, but I feel like he mistakes Hawk and Jones for cornerstones. They are just guys. I wanted to gut our entire core of ILB's after last season and start fresh. I thought Terrell Manning could be a diamond in the rough, but I was obviously wrong there. Maybe Lattimore could be that guy...

Either way, I think this is a position that definitely needs to be addressed in the draft. We've tried addressing it internally...it's just not the answer.

However, Hawk and Jones, I'm afraid, will be given at least another year as their salaries would account for a pretty significant amount of dead money if they were released after this year.

I agree that Collins' injury was devastating, but it was almost 3 full seasons ago -- this should have been addressed by now.

 

[PackerFlatLander]

This seems like the appropriate thread to comment on all this, so ...

1. I'm gonna catch flak for this, but I think the thought of entertaining the idea of sitting Rodgers for the year, should be considered. We need to look at the big picture here - look at the top two teams in the NFC right now - Seattle and (of all teams) Carolina. Does anyone here honestly think that this current version of the Packers is going to beat those teams this season in a playoff game? Hell, we can't even beat the stupid 49ers with Rodgers. The Giants may even make the playoffs after an 0-5 start. The Saints? The Cowboys? That is a LOT of teams that I'm not all that confident that the Packers would beat them. AND ... we just got blasted 40-10 by the Lions. Now, on the flip side of that ...

2. Indirectly, Rodgers DOES play defense. We had the 32nd ranked defense in 2001 and went 15-1. Any questions?

3. Dom Capers is a great DC and always has been, always will be. But, since winning XLV, they've been pretty bad. It's time for a change. As for the debate about whether or not we have the personnel to run the 4-3 - yes. Clay lines up in the 4-3 every time anyways, pretty much. The 3-4 requires more exact fits than the 4-3. Right now, even though there's some great pieces in place on D, as a collective group, they're simply not very good. Losing Nick Collins killed us and we've never recovered. That's obvious.

4. We already saw our team lose to Denver in the Super Bowl once. I really don't need to see that again.

Those are my thoughts off the bat, on the current status of the team.

 

[adambr2]

This seems like the appropriate thread to comment on all this, so ...

1. I'm gonna catch flak for this, but I think the thought of entertaining the idea of sitting Rodgers for the year, should be considered. We need to look at the big picture here - look at the top two teams in the NFC right now - Seattle and (of all teams) Carolina. Does anyone here honestly think that this current version of the Packers is going to beat those teams this season in a playoff game? Hell, we can't even beat the stupid 49ers with Rodgers. The Giants may even make the playoffs after an 0-5 start. The Saints? The Cowboys? That is a LOT of teams that I'm not all that confident that the Packers would beat them. AND ... we just got blasted 40-10 by the Lions. Now, on the flip side of that ...

2. Indirectly, Rodgers DOES play defense. We had the 32nd ranked defense in 2001 and went 15-1. Any questions?

3. Dom Capers is a great DC and always has been, always will be. But, since winning XLV, they've been pretty bad. It's time for a change. As for the debate about whether or not we have the personnel to run the 4-3 - yes. Clay lines up in the 4-3 every time anyways, pretty much. The 3-4 requires more exact fits than the 4-3. Right now, even though there's some great pieces in place on D, as a collective group, they're simply not very good. Losing Nick Collins killed us and we've never recovered. That's obvious.

4. We already saw our team lose to Denver in the Super Bowl once. I really don't need to see that again.

Those are my thoughts off the bat, on the current status of the team.

1. I don't like the mentality of shutting down Rodgers for the year. I know our chances are very remote, but they were remote after 6 games in 2010. The team we saw at the end of the season was not the same one we saw in Week 6. While again the chances are remote, teams change over the course of a season. I also don't like the message that it sends to your players. Put yourself in their shoes. You're busting your butt every day (I would sure hope) trying to get better, trying to improve, and the guys who push papers and make personnel decisions essentially tell you, through their actions, that they're quitting. How are you going to tell your players not to quit if you're going to do it?

2. I'm not arguing against this, but there was a lot more to 15-1 on the defense than having the 32nd ranked D. This defense was a MONSTER in creating turnovers. 31 interceptions that season. 31! This defense has 6. I'll take that 32nd ranked defense over this year's 24th ranked defense any day. That defense wasn't good enough to win when they didn't get their turnovers, but this defense is the worst of both worlds. Can't stop anyone, can't force turnovers.

3. No arguments here.

4. If we lose to Denver in the Super Bowl this year, I will consider this to have been a pretty memorable and successful season. I would gladly take the dejected feeling of losing in the Super Bowl to a really great team for the unbelievably glorious and memorable run that it would take to get there after all this. I would think most Packer fans would feel the same way.

 

[Carl]

This seems like the appropriate thread to comment on all this, so ...

1. I'm gonna catch flak for this, but I think the thought of entertaining the idea of sitting Rodgers for the year, should be considered. We need to look at the big picture here - look at the top two teams in the NFC right now - Seattle and (of all teams) Carolina. Does anyone here honestly think that this current version of the Packers is going to beat those teams this season in a playoff game? Hell, we can't even beat the stupid 49ers with Rodgers. The Giants may even make the playoffs after an 0-5 start. The Saints? The Cowboys? That is a LOT of teams that I'm not all that confident that the Packers would beat them. AND ... we just got blasted 40-10 by the Lions. Now, on the flip side of that ...

2. Indirectly, Rodgers DOES play defense. We had the 32nd ranked defense in 2001 and went 15-1. Any questions?

3. Dom Capers is a great DC and always has been, always will be. But, since winning XLV, they've been pretty bad. It's time for a change. As for the debate about whether or not we have the personnel to run the 4-3 - yes. Clay lines up in the 4-3 every time anyways, pretty much. The 3-4 requires more exact fits than the 4-3. Right now, even though there's some great pieces in place on D, as a collective group, they're simply not very good. Losing Nick Collins killed us and we've never recovered. That's obvious.

4. We already saw our team lose to Denver in the Super Bowl once. I really don't need to see that again.

Those are my thoughts off the bat, on the current status of the team.

Remember the 7-9 Seahawks taking down the defending champion Saints?

No. Never. And absolutely not to sitting Rodgers if he can play and they are still in playoff contention.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Roddell for GM 2014

 

[Lakedog]

There are always going to be times, regardless of scheme, when an ILB is asked (in base or nickle man coverage) to cover a RB downfield. It happens all the time. The problem is we have a couple mediocre linebackers who aren't capable of covering RBs. Look at San Fran with P Willis and N Bowman...pretty sure both those guys will be competitive with most RBs in the league downfield.

While I believe Capers needs to go...it's not all his fault. The lack of talent throughout the middle of the defense is pretty striking when you think about it. Losing Collins and Bishop to injuries has hurt real bad. Injuries period have decimated this roster.

Bagadeez - We've all seen bad LBs running down field... trailing RB's & receivers. If I'm 12 I'd run every play I could against a cement-footed LB. It's about match ups! Rolling screens to get guy open... RB's in the open field against LBs, etc. This year there are more LBs trailing behind sprinters than ever before. I assume it's by design.. a faulty design. It's hard to say what specifically happened to our Dline, but the Dbacks have not improved and are the weakness on the team.

Flatlander- Sounds like quitting to me! Just because the injury bug has been floating around the locker room doesn't mean we can't ever play again.

 

[Grave]

No one of course. MM will have the same answer he has given the past 4 weeks. We just have to tackle better. Its not like were giving up huge yards every game Oh wait we are. Cant be the scheme can it? I mean we have that speedster AJ Hawk covering Bush 30 yards down the field. Now this don't seem like a case of bad tackling this is a scheme issue that should never happen. I mean this guy couldn't cover my grammy on a go route. Come on MM wake up this capers guy needs to go and he needs to go now today! I would give Kevin Green the job for the remainder of the year to see what he can do. He is a fiery guy and he is on the sidelines. Maybe he will put a little fear in these guys and get them to play better.

Guys have to tackle in any scheme. Our guys refuse to tackle but are allowed to keep playing. Ditto blocking. Football is still largley blocking and tackling and we are rotten at the fundamentals. Rotten. And somehow, player selection allows a Newhouse but not a Giacomini. Puzzling.

 

[Grave]

5th and 6th rounders in Seattle relish hitting and tackling. In Green Bay starters are allowed to turn down tackles and keep starting. Loco no?

 

[PackerFlatLander]

Remember the 7-9 Seahawks taking down the defending champion Saints?

No. Never. And absolutely not to sitting Rodgers if he can play and they are still in playoff contention.

Good points all around. I'm usually the eternal optimist. Perhaps I'm just overreacting out of a frustrating season.

 

[rodell330]

Roddell for GM 2014

No comment.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Bagadeez - We've all seen bad LBs running down field... trailing RB's & receivers. If I'm 12 I'd run every play I could against a cement-footed LB. It's about match ups! Rolling screens to get guy open... RB's in the open field against LBs, etc. This year there are more LBs trailing behind sprinters than ever before. I assume it's by design.. a faulty design. It's hard to say what specifically happened to our Dline, but the Dbacks have not improved and are the weakness on the team.

Flatlander- Sounds like quitting to me! Just because the injury bug has been floating around the locker room doesn't mean we can't ever play again.

Unless you can come up with an alternative defense that allows us to put an extra DB on the field to cover the RB and also shore up a banged up and ineffective front seven, I don't really think there's anyone to blame on Reggie Bush (who, btw, is a very good receiving RB) being covered by a linebacker. Same holds true against Forte, McCoy, etc. Good offensive play design took advantage of our front seven lacking playmakers.

 

[Lakedog]

Unless you can come up with an alternative defense that allows us to put an extra DB on the field to cover the RB and also shore up a banged up and ineffective front seven, I don't really think there's anyone to blame on Reggie Bush (who, btw, is a very good receiving RB) being covered by a linebacker. Same holds true against Forte, McCoy, etc. Good offensive play design took advantage of our front seven lacking playmakers.

You're right. Let's ask Mike Neal to cut a few pounds so he can lumber back on coverage when he's not pushing 300 pounders around. Oh yeah, we already had him do that. The upside of the 3-4 is the Oline doesn't know who to block because a different LB crosses the line. Makes sense! But offenses have figured it out by keeping a 250# TE in and putting using speedy 200# RBs to make the catch >10 yards down field. It's happening a lot. It's not tackling. Its scheme. The only hope is greater penetration, a lower average time to pass and tighter coverage in the first 15 yards.

So the question should be, "Where's the beef?!" Either the big guys get it done like they did in September or mgt shows their beef and gets rid of Capers. He's been given a lot of capital & our defense has mostly stunk since he's been here.

If success is measured by how high you go after a fall, let's hope the Bears' SNAP of #12 makes our team stronger. Yes, this is what our team looks like without a HoF QB... like any other team. Average at best.

 

[rodell330]

You're right. Let's ask Mike Neal to cut a few pounds so he can lumber back on coverage when he's not pushing 300 pounders around. Oh yeah, we already had him do that. The upside of the 3-4 is the Oline doesn't know who to block because a different LB crosses the line. Makes sense! But offenses have figured it out by keeping a 250# TE in and putting using speedy 200# RBs to make the catch >10 yards down field. It's happening a lot. It's not tackling. Its scheme. The only hope is greater penetration, a lower average time to pass and tighter coverage in the first 15 yards.

So the question should be, "Where's the beef?!" Either the big guys get it done like they did in September or mgt shows their beef and gets rid of Capers. He's been given a lot of capital & our defense has mostly stunk since he's been here.

If success is measured by how high you go after a fall, let's hope the Bears' SNAP of #12 makes our team stronger. Yes, this is what our team looks like without a HoF QB... like any other team. Average at best.

Mike Neal is terrible in coverage...both he and Nick Perry. TT needs to make it a priority to draft olb's who make a difference in not only rushing the passer but in coverage as well and put these two back at DE where they belong. we have literally one guy who can cover and he's rushing the qb 90% of the time. No wonder why Capers plays so much zone...i would to. Still would like to see him gone tho.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Mike Neal is terrible in coverage...both he and Nick Perry. TT needs to make it a priority to draft olb's who make a difference in not only rushing the passer but in coverage as well and put these two back at DE where they belong. we have literally one guy who can cover and he's rushing the qb 90% of the time. No wonder why Capers plays so much zone...i would to. Still would like to see him gone tho.

Could have had Jerry Hughes, a more fluid OLB who pass rushes well too.
Had 2 sacks again this week on Matt Ryan.
Puts him at 8 sacks in 12 games, not bad for a guy we coulda had last year for a 12-pack and chips.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Mike Neal is terrible in coverage...both he and Nick Perry. TT needs to make it a priority to draft olb's who make a difference in not only rushing the passer but in coverage as well and put these two back at DE where they belong. we have literally one guy who can cover and he's rushing the qb 90% of the time. No wonder why Capers plays so much zone...i would to. Still would like to see him gone tho.

How many guys are there out there like CM3? Not many, that's how many. They either accel at rushing the pasher and are average in coverage or can't rush the passer worth a crap and are decent in coverage. You can't be 275+ LBS and be decent in coverage and if you are to much of a light weight, you wont get past the big linemen, they will knock you on your ***. It is a give and take, always has been. Once in a while you find that gem that can do both well, has the speed to cover and the muscle and hussle to rush well....but that is the rarity, not the normal. Asking someone who dropped down from 300+ down to 275-ish to learn how to drop back into coverage is a lot to ask in one season. He was originally built to do one task, and now you want him to do both, and do them both very well. Have you played football....ever?

 

[rodell330]

Could have had Jerry Hughes, a more fluid OLB who pass rushes well too.
Had 2 sacks again this week on Matt Ryan.
Puts him at 8 sacks in 12 games, not bad for a guy we coulda had last year for a 12-pack and chips.

I wanted Hughes to! i remember saying to myself TT is an idiot if he doesn't take Hughes...well long story short he passed on Hughes and took Bulaga :/ yes we did need a tackle but Hughes and Matthews together would've been nice to see. Coulda went tackle in the 2nd round as TT has bad luck drafting linemen in early rounds...see Sherrod as well.

 

[Lakedog]

How many guys are there out there like CM3? Not many, that's how many. They either accel at rushing the pasher and are average in coverage or can't rush the passer worth a crap and are decent in coverage. You can't be 275+ LBS and be decent in coverage and if you are to much of a light weight, you wont get past the big linemen, they will knock you on your ***. It is a give and take, always has been. Once in a while you find that gem that can do both well, has the speed to cover and the muscle and hussle to rush well....but that is the rarity, not the normal. Asking someone who dropped down from 300+ down to 275-ish to learn how to drop back into coverage is a lot to ask in one season. He was originally built to do one task, and now you want him to do both, and do them both very well. Have you played football....ever?

Hu Rah! Capers is putting round pegs into square holes. D coaches are supposed to look for match-ups, just like the O coaches. And Mike Neal?! I think he has a great future rushing the passer. ...I know you're not asking me, but yes, HS state champ. I coach my son's grade school bkb team now... just looking for match-ups the kids can exploit.

Lastly... maybe 87 can be an all-pro next year. We have a lot of talent on this team. Glad to see the play calling improved since 12 got after MM.