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The secondary

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by red4tribe, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. red4tribe

    red4tribe Cheesehead

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    What exactly do you guys see happening with our secondary this offseason? We have Al Harris coming off surgery who will be back, but will he be effective? And Charles Woodson, who is also aging, still be at the top of his game?

    Do you think we should draft a future starting cornerback? And do you think that anyone we have now, Williams, Lee, Underwood, has the potential to be a starting cornerback on our team someday?

    The secondary concerns me just as much as the offensive line because, for all we know, Harris could flop and Woodson could start regressing and in that case we would be in a whole lot of trouble.
     
  2. AllouezPackerFan

    AllouezPackerFan Section 121 Row 47

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    I think Harris and Woodson will be very solid as a duo for at least one more season. I think Woodson probably has 2-3 seasons left in the league. Having Will Blackmon back will be big next season as well. Which means that Tremon Williams can go back to being our nickle back and Jarrett Bush won't have to play. I think we will draft a safety either in the first round or second round. Wouldn't be surprised if our first four picks in the draft were two o-lineman and two d-backs. Haven't seen any promise from Williams, Lee, or Underwood, but I suppose there is a chance.
     
  3. 3irty1

    3irty1 Fear the Dreads!

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    Williams doesn't strike me as a bad cornerback. He's not outstanding like Harris and Woodson, but few are. I'd like a couple solid draft picks to be safe and have depth, but I think by the time either of these behemoths call it quits, Williams will be an acceptable replacement and we should have a quality db from the draft.
     
  4. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    My opinion:
    Last year we had a good/very good secondary, considering Harris, Woodson, Bigby, Collins, and Tramon Williams and Pat Lee as the nickel and dime backs.

    But when it started being depleted, no move had been made to re-patch it.
    -
    I don't know if Harris can come back playing well.

    I think Williams can be a starting #2 corner in the NFL, and a good one.

    And from what I've seen from Lee, he has the potential, but he's the Harrell of the secondary.

    So IMHO we need at least another solid corner to be backup, a starting SS, and we also need, but not for 2010, a future replacement for Woodson.
     
  5. Incubes12

    Incubes12 Bay Harbor Butcher?

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    Right now, I think our secondary is fine as is. 2 years down the road? Williams will be a good replacement, but we certainly need depth and we need to start developing some possible replacements. As of right now, I think it's more important to address the depth at safety. I know that Bush is mostly to blame for this, but we were absolutely killed over the middle in the Wild card game. I would love to see some young guys there.
     
  6. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    Have to agree that C Wood is not done yet and will potentially play to the top of his game till the day he retires. Blackmon is an intriguing player. We all know he was drafted as a WR in order to play special teams. Well he's done a not too bad job in that department but I don't trust him at playing corner. He got burned several times last season and I don't see it changing much if we asked him to play. It wouldn't surprise me if we just let him go.
     
  7. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    I agree that our secondary is fine or adequate as is, but any position can be upgraded except if you win the defensive player of the year award, then the best of the best.

    2 things made our secondary look bad. First injuries and a lot of them. Just about any team will look bad with the number of injuries we had in our secondary. Second a solid defense can get by with those types of injuries if you get good and consistent pass rush from our front 7 of which we did not.

    So there are two ways to help improve the secondary, find more Woodson type players or improve our lineman and Line Backers in our pass rush.

    This is why I think Hawk has to go, he does some things well but seriously lacks pass coverage and pass rushing abilities. I think Nick Barnett is serviceable and being 1 year removed from knee surgery will help. Improvement in Brad Jones play or finding another outside LB to do what we hoped Kampman would be is another solution.

    Johnny Jolly's biggest knock on him is his pass rushing, example his INT (he is not getting to the QB), though his run stopping abilities are tremendous. Our other lineman are ok, but nothing spectacular. Hopefully Raji improves our pass rush in his second year with that burst that got him drafted 9th overall.

    So we could tremendously help our secondary by adding another dynamic inside LB, another power rusher outside LB, and another lineman that has pass rushing abilities without drafting another safety or corner back.
     
  8. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    That is a lot to ask for in just one offseason. There are no Woodson type players in the FA or in the draft and in order to trade for them it would take a lot. Chris Gamble from the Panthers comes into mind for me, he's very underrated and proves that he is a top tier CB. If you have any other names of players who we could possibly get to fill this needs it would be very welcoming.
     
  9. Ted's Zombie Army

    Ted's Zombie Army Cheesehead

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    I agree that you can look at corners and linebackers in our defense as integral parts of the same coverage. A lot of those blown coverages over the middle last year were often Hawk and Barnett unable to keep up with the tight ends or backs swinging out of the backfield. The 3-4 requires linebackers with Matthews' speed. So I'd rather see them get a faster linebacker, then a safety on defense.
     
  10. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    I don't think I made my point clear. There are a number of ways to address our secondary problem, which is not a secondary problem but a defensive problem. Bush just happens to be the last player seen getting beat.

    I am not saying we need 4 or 5 new players to fill positions, but you can take an average secondary and make them look good by adding one dynamic player as a lineman or LB.

    IMO in the first round we take the biggest and best impact player for our defense available.

    You don't have to draft/trade for a CB/ safety to improve the secondary play.
     
  11. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    But that's exactly the problem, there is no best impact defensive player that we can take with our pick in the first round. The best defensive players in this draft are Ndamukong Suh, Gerald Mccoy, Eric Berry, Joe Haden, Rolando Mcclain and all these players will be long gone by the time we pick. Mel Kiper has us picking Taylor Mays. However after watching film and reading analysis of some experts from the senior bow,l it seems that many of them contend that Mays isn't even worth a first rounder or even an early second.
     
  12. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I'm all for picking Mays in the 4th round. Anything before that is a mistake.

    He has the physical tools, but he just doesn't know how to play football. He's not even average. He's terrible, consistantly giving up big plays, having zero ball hawking skills... He only lays big hits, but more often than not, he takes the wrong angle! He's terrible.

    He is, however, a fierce competitor, I'll give him that. He's though as hell. But he just lacks playing skills...
     
  13. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    I agree, but this post is talking about the secondary. I just think most people believe the only way to fix our defense is drafting/trading for another CB/Safety.

    I am just pointing out that our front 7 did Bush no favors in the Steelers and Cardinal game. That its just not a secondary problem, but a defensive problem that can be addressed a number of ways. One way is not to draft Mays just because you think you have more of a need at that position and pass on another Clay Mathews type.

    I am pointing out that another Clay Mathews addresses and helps our secondary problems.

    As far as the draft who knows, I bet you said the same thing a few years ago about getting a franchise QB to replace BF, but we got A-rod. You just never know, there is trading up.

    I am just saying when you approach free agency and the draft you have to take what is dealt to you, don't limit yourself on a few positions.

    I would say the same thing about the O-line, if we can't get that lineman to be a major upgrade but a Reggie Bush type player is available and attainable, get him. Even though he is not a lineman, his presence and play making ability can greatly help a struggling O-line. The same goes with our secondary problem, which I think is a defensive unit problem.
     
  14. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    I've heard people suggesting that Mays projects more as a linebacker than a safety now, because he can't cover for crap.

    If we're drafting a corner, I like Kyle Wilson out of Boise. [/brokenrecord]
     

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