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The other side of high-speed police chases

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by Zero2Cool, Jun 19, 2006.

  1. 4packgirl

    4packgirl Cheesehead

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    wow - i see you guys have been solving the problems of the world again! :wink: i'll put my 2 cents in. police chases should only be allowed when there is a serious crime involved. stealing a car is NOT serious in my opinion. i'd give up my car in a minute to avoid someone getting hurt or killed in an accident while the police are chasing the person who stole it. a car is a possession - not worth a life.

    as far as kids these days - there are so many variables in todays world that mold their lives, it's impossible to pinpoint one specific problem. bottom line is if parents give their kids strong morals & values, teach them right from wrong, give them a little religion, love, & care for them - they SHOULD turn out ok. :pray:
     
  2. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I agree with 4pack. It should begin at home. I was taught well by my parents. And i got spankings (NOT beatings.......spankings......and not nearly as many as i deserved!) I was taught there are CONSEQUENCES when you do something wrong. I was taught to RESPECT authority.
    How many times have we heard in today's world, a kid gets in trouble at school, and instead of the parents backing up the teacher and school, (If the teacher was right) the parents SUE the teacher/school for stepping on their kids "rights." What does this teach the kids??? When i was a kid, if i got in trouble at school, i would be in MORE trouble when i got home. My parents WOULD listen to my side before passing sentence, but if i was wrong in what i did, i was punished.
    Also, the schools today don't help with their also pushing on the kids that they have "rights". No one seems to want to teach them that they have responsibilities. They push a false feeling of value on kids, making them feel like THEY are the center of the universe, and the only one that matters. Then they wonder why when kids do things that people like me NEVER would have even THOUGHT to do.
    Zero, you are right. If kids feared what would happen to them if they broke the law, maybe they wouldn't do the crime. But it's true, a slap on the wrist, and they are back home, planning their next crime. There IS no consequences when they do bad today.
    California said "If the police did not pursue, then every crimminal would engage in high speed chases." And he is right too! If the bad guys new cops won't chase if they take off at a high speed, why NOT take off at a high speed? They would KNOW then that they would get away! (Thats a GREAT point Cali!)
    Morals and respect for others is learned at a young age. And if it's NOT taught at home, then we have the kind of kids that seem to rule today. When i see a kid doing something right today, i praise them and their parents, to SHOW them that it IS noticed. We had two boys hold the door for my wife and i a few weeks back, and we made it a point to tell their Mom that we appreciated it. We did it so the boys could hear us. We wanted them to KNOW that manners count! Unfortunatly you don't see that happen much today.
     
  3. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    A little extreme, zero, but I am with you in principle. Living in Mpls, I can provide you with some "progressive" ideas to help curb the out of control "you scuffed my Nikes..I am gonna kill you" mentality of some of our wonderful youth.

    Outreach programs...that will curb hardened gang members!

    Forbidding people to walk/travel in alleys on which they do not live...sure, punish the majority because a distinct minority commit a lot of crimes in alleyways!

    Pulling cops from other parts of town...but tell them not to do anything but having a visible presence....like the gangbangers don't know they are window dressing!

    They don't drive known bad guys out of the city...they provide them Section 8 vouchers and put gangbangers 8 feet away from your home...my home...and do NOTHING when the whole block goes to **** and people fear to go out and enjoy their neighborhood/neighbors....nothing, until of course the kid and father are found to be involved in a brutal killing in the trendy part of town...and then there is outrage!

    But what Minneapolis does best is ignore the problem...because the problem is primarily minority members....one cannot get re-elected as a DFL (Democrat) candidate if one ruffles minority feathers in this city.

    Bottom line, we need to get back to a simpler and more efficient means of PUNISHING criminals, and allowing a new growth opportunity in private prison development.

    Yep...progressive thought is killing this country...nobody is wrong/bad/to be judged...there is an excuse for everything!!


    Thanks for getting my blood pressure up, zero!!
     
  4. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    lol sorry bro...

    I was taught there are CONSEQUENCES when you do something wrong.- the cheese... <-- this is very true and is exactly what I'm talking about... yes i went to the extreme but to the extreme to prove my point

    People bash Eminem all the time, but its only those who don't understand why he says the things he does.
     
  5. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I understand your principle and I agree with it. But I just don't think harsher punishments are going to do anything. Zero the thugs today think going to jail is an honour and having shot wounds is a badge of honour. Teens are really messed, and no amount of punishment will change that now. It needs to start at home, like cheesy and 4pack said.

    I still remember the time when I got into a fight at school in grade 8 over a stupid pen. It was with my best friend too. I didn't told my parents, but they found out I was suspended. My dad literally snapped at me, and that was a really scary thing to have. But I will never forget one thing he told me, he said "After all I have done for you, sacrificed for you, taught you, you do something this stupid. If this is how you plan to do things, then go ahead and get out of my house because that is not the type of son I want." That struck a chord, because it was a point where my dad was so angry that he was beyond slapping/yelling at me. The strict punishments by parents DID mean something, and they still do. Unfortunatly it is frowned upon in society, and now we are reaping the unfortuante rewards of this. :(
     
  6. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Well, AADP...I think we can operate under the premise that these parents are failures, and future generations of parents will be bigger failures, as our society continues to cater to the lowest common denomonator...better referred to as human scum.

    No, jails probably will not deter the modern thug for many of the reasons you cite. What I am getting at is getting these predatory fucks off the streets and incarcerated for a LONG TIME. Build more prisons an house those who cannot/will not conduct themselves in a manner suitable for them to walk amongst us...and hand out sentences that keep them away from society until they are too old to hurt anyone, dead, or some other sad ending.

    The fact is that some of these "kids" are soulless animals who do not blink at the thought of killing...in fact they revel in the status it brings. They are beyond help and, as was discussed last week, should be put down to protect the public at large.

    How is it humane to put down and injured/dangerous dog, but somehow it is not humane to put down a human animal who has consistently displayed themself as being a true danger to the populace.

    Humane for whom...the animal or his next victim(s)? And you KNOW there will always be a next!
     
  7. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    They think jail is an 'honour' because jail is weak. I've been there. The first few days its hell, but the repitition gets to you and you adapt. Soon one month or three months, it dont matter. You sit like a rat eating crappy food.

    Oh yea, you also get to listen to everyones story on how and/or why they got set up because they are innocent they did nothing wrong! I couldn't beleive how many times I was the only one saying ' i ****** up thats why im here '.

    Another thing about being in jail. You feel really freaking intelligent because y ou're surrounded by severely stupid people. (yea i know being in jail means you were stupid in the first place) Like the saying goes, if you wanna appear skinnier, hang around those who are heavier.

    Stronger Punishments WOULD deter many crimes.
     
  8. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Most criminals seem to think that they can do anything, and they did nothing wrong. To me, it's this false self worth they are pushing onto kids today. They don't want to keep score when they play sports, because they don't want poor little Johhny to feel bad about himself if he loses. They don't teach REALITY to kids today. They teach them that they ALL are the center of the universe. Then they wonder WHY the kids have a "hooray for me and F-YOU" attitude. The kids are taught to think like that by the "political correct" crowd.
     
  9. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    cheesey....I have this conversation regularly with friends. So many of these kids are propped up for just being, told how special they are all their lives and then they are turned loose on a cold, cruel world that plays no favorites and takes no prisoners. Having NEVER experienced the "bumps in the road" of life, they are ill prepared to meet the challenges that the world supplies with regularity.

    There is a very real reason to fear these kids and their inability to cope with the world.
     
  10. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Digs.....VERY well put! And SO right! Kids can learn even from losing when they play. You learn sportsmanship, and how to be a gracious winner when you do win. It teaches you how to handle future situations, like when a boss tells you to do something that might not be real pleasant. Kids now will tell the boss to go to "H", I don't have to do that!" They learn no respect or how to deal in the real world. It's setting them up for failure.
     
  11. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Going back to the original post:

    The girl did not die because of a police chase. The girl died because another teen ripped off her mom's car and started driving like an idiot. IMO, she should have been charged with vehicular manslaughter and served a minimum of 10 years in jail. However, I doubt she even served a day. I cannot even begin to fathom how some people would even try to blame the police for the direct actions of a criminal. Stealing a car may not seem like a big deal to you. However, it is to me... especially when that car is the one I work my *** off everyday to pay for.

    Up here in Canada, the laws are even more lenient on criminals. I personally believe that the best way to combat crime is through more prisons and longer sentences. One would have to also eliminate the "Club Fed" mentality. Get rid of the weight rooms, free association and cable TV, and start making these prisoners work 16 hours hard labour a day. Refusal to participate results no food and/or solitary confinement. After working 16 hours in a farm field, I doubt there would be many problems with prison gangs like we have right now. Mandatory military service upon release would also be a good step in the right direction.

    Perhaps this would teach the "troubled youths", gangbangers and general turds the value of hard work and responsibility. It may also make jail time less a "badge of honour" and more like the punishment it is supposed to be. After all, hard work never killed anyone, but it does teach a lot about values and responsibility.

    My $0.02.

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  12. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Very true, had she not stolen the car in the first place there would be no need for a chase at all.
     
  13. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    digs, IMO that is true, and a very scary thought.
     
  14. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Anubis, this is probably the defence lawyer side in me, but I totally disagree. Our overcrowded prision system makes it so that youth criminals are hardly tried as adults, and also cause punishments usually being given out in the form of fines + community service. I think all sorts of people make mistakes, so I am not in the favour of throwing the book at a youth who made a mistake.

    If you make longer sentences, it still wouldn't make that big of a difference because the people who get the longest sentence will have done something REALLY stupid. I also don't think the problem of gangs can be solved so easily. You must have heard of the Creeba shooting, and the guy who got shot by gangs at his friends funeral, well I think the real problem is that dead beat dads leave their children, causing moms to work and support the family and not give enough attention to the child, and the child goes out seeking a "family" and finds it in a gang. That is one of the big reasons why gangs thrive.

    And finally, if they work 16 hours a day I gurantee you that the Charter will tear down the process. 16 hours is long hard work, and Charter rights would be all over this issue, and farnkly many rights would be violated.

    However, like I said above, that is my opinion but it is the defence lawyer in me coming out. :)
     
  15. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    A defense lawyer, eh??? So in other words, you are part of the problem. j/k :p

    You have just proved my point. Community service and fines are not a deterrent to criminal acts. This is why the crime rates are multiplying exponentially (despite what our politicians would lead us to believe).

    As for throwing the book at a youth who made a mistake, it depends on how serious that mistake was. Dishing crack, sexual or aggravated assault and murder deserve extensive prison sentences, despite how old the offender is.

    That is ridiculous. Granted stupid people will continue to make stupid mistakes, however the smarter ones may think twice before engaging in criminal activity. Drug dealing starts looking a lot less profitable when you are looking at a mandatory 20+ years in prison and multi-million dollar fines, as opposed to probation and/or community service. When you eliminate the "revolving door" of the prison system, you will have a lot less people choosing that route to easy money. Currently, the punishments handed down in the courts do not deter anyone looking for an easy way to a fast buck from choosing sexual exploitation, violent robbery or drug dealing as a career path.

    My comments were in reference to prison gangs. The simple fact such a thing is allowed to exist in the first place demonstrates what is wrong with the justice system as a whole.

    One of the most glaring problems we have in our society is that these supposed "rights" protect the criminals, not the victims. IMO, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a flawed document that caused far more problems than it ever actually fixed. To even imply that prisoners should be granted the same rights as law-abiding citizens is ludicrous. I am not advocating beating them or treating them in an inhumane way, but being forced to work is in no way a violation of anyones rights. My cousin runs a farm (which by the way makes jack-**** as far as profits go). During haying season, it was not uncommon for her and her husband to work 14-16 hours in the fields slugging bales. Now, if a 130 lbs girl can do it, I see no reason why the criminal element in our prisons can't. That is just more boo-hooing from people looking for a easy ride through life. The bottom line is something I have observed time and time again without exception. The people that scream loudest for their rights are generally those least deserving of them.

    Let us not forget that if such reforms were ever introduced in our country, there is one last right that these poor hard-done-bys could exercise at any time: The Right to Leave. I really don't think any law-abiding citizens would object or miss them.

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  16. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    So if a 17yr old sleeps with a 15yr old, the 17yr old should be locked up for 20 years?
     
  17. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I'll tell you the honest truth. The thought of that happening to me kept me from sleeping around. Guess my BIG head ran the show, not my LITTLE head.
    And the "Club Fed" IS a problem. Thugs go into prison, and instead of being rehabilitated, they bulk up their muscles, and learn how to be better criminals. They need to make prison an AWFUL place to be, so that it is the deterent it once was, and was originally meant to be. I see people on TV yelling "But the prisoners have RIGHTS!" NO THEY DON'T! When they committed their crimes, and took away the rights of their victims, they willingly GAVE UP their rights in my view.
    You don't lock up a 17 year old for 20 years for having sex with a 15 year old, but you don't just slap him on the wrist and say "Thats a time out for you buddy!" But if a 17 year old kills someone because of their crime, they should be punished accordingly in my opinion.
     
  18. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    The problem is, not many 17 yr olds know its against the law or that in wisconsin you get punished as an adult at age 17. At 17 everything negative counts as an 18 yr old, but u can't do things 18 yr olds can... ie memberships, buy smokes, etc ... but u can be punished as an adult for a crime u did not know was a crime.
     
  19. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    If it was sexual assault, definately. If it was consensual, it is perfectly legal (here in Canada, at least).

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  20. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    So in your opinion, ignorance of the law is a valid defense?

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  21. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Nope. I did not say that. Read the text in my signature. It applies to you as well ;)
     
  22. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    It sounds like you possess self-discipline and self-responsibility. Two things as rare as common sense and honest politicians.

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  23. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Actually, English was my best subject in school. I only see one way to translate this:

    Given the context in which you orginally made that statement, your point seemed to be that a 17 year old that sleeps with a 15 year old does not deserve a 20+ year sentence for statutory rape and/or sexual assault because "not many 17 yr olds know it is against the law".

    Perhaps you care to explain?

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  24. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I don't care to, but you did put the time into making the reply look nice so I will :)

    You break the law, you do the time, that's it. The problem with most youth not knowing the laws was said because we need to better educate them on the laws at a younger age. You have to start YOUNG with kids as young as you can to get them on the right track.
    You see, if you let a train go off track just a little bit its much harder to get it back on track where as if you get it going straight on the tracks in the first place. So goes my opinion anyhow.
     
  25. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Fair enough. I don't disagree with you on these points at all.

    See, not every discussion has to turn into a locked-down flame-fest!!! :wink:

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     

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