The Ground Game?

[TJV]

You sunk my Battleship(NOT)!!! We'll see who's theory holds water this season. Now just be sure not to get too excited IF the running attack is solid this year. Don't cheer for long rushing gains, we want you to be arround and not be having panic attacks. Close your eyes when a screen pass is caught by a running back. Ignore any great blocks by running backs that allow our QB to throw for long gains and TD's. And above all, don,t give any credit to the running backs if they turn out to save us at any critical point in any game. After all, we want you to be happy as well as healthy. Anyway you know that a great passing attack is "good enough" to win with.

Previously you were just wrong, now you appear to be completely confused as well. Just to be clear, this is the statement I refuted:

The running game is no less important than any other part of the team! That is my point of view and it will not change.

Again, just to be clear, you are saying the running game is equally important to the passing game, as well as with every other part of the team (presumably including the entire defense and special teams). The reason I'm going out of my way to state the obvious is in the post quoted above you include a screen pass completed to a RB and a pass block executed by a RB. So here's another newsflash just for you: Those plays are part of the passing game, not the running game.

For your theory to "hold water" this year, the running game will have to be more than solid, it will have to be just as important as the passing game. No matter how you measure their relative importance - by yards gained, yards per attempt, or points scored - that's not going to happen. I've noticed you don't deal with stats or facts to back up your opinion. If you'd like to remedy that, perhaps you could refute the points I made above in post #31?

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

McCarthy is a pass first play caller and the running game is primarily to setup the play action and burn up some time at the end of the game. The fact that TT is not going out of his way to bring back Grant or bring in another RB says a lot about his belief in the stable of young RB's we have.

I am looking forward to camp and the preseason to see how things play out. D is more my concern than the run game.

 

[toolkien]

You sunk my Battleship(NOT)!!! We'll see who's theory holds water this season. Now just be sure not to get too excited IF the running attack is solid this year. Don't cheer for long rushing gains, we want you to be arround and not be having panic attacks. Close your eyes when a screen pass is caught by a running back. Ignore any great blocks by running backs that allow our QB to throw for long gains and TD's. And above all, don,t give any credit to the running backs if they turn out to save us at any critical point in any game. After all, we want you to be happy as well as healthy. Anyway you know that a great passing attack is "good enough" to win with.

The topic was the ground game, not running backs. Of course running backs are important, not that a rushing attack is necessary. Catching a pass or blocking is not part of the ground game, it's part of the passing game. And I am all in favor of whatever can be gained on a rushing play, but as long as the run keeps the defense honest, and the Packers can control the ball when necessary, the Packers do not need to invest major money into the position as long as QB's and WR's can't be hit. The Packers won Super Bowl 45 tied for the fewest rush attempts by a winner. The Packers were cruising with their passing game and winning the turnover margin (despite some drops). Then two backs went out on successive plays and the tide turned majorly. But it stands the Packers' running backs got some decent yards on a few carries, enough to work within the overall plan.

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

Take back your X and I'll take back mine ivo610 . Then lets try to be civil about this. I respect your right to an opinion, respect mine. Who knows we may agree about something someday.

 

[ivo610]

Take back your X and I'll take back mine ivo610 . Then lets try to be civil about this. I respect your right to an opinion, respect mine. Who knows we may agree about something someday.

Bc I disagree with you, you have come to the conclusion I dont respect your right to opinion? seems like a stretch. Xs are just part of the forum, dont take them personally.

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

Don't take personally!

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

I want to understand why discussing the ground game upsets some. Does it strike a nerve. We don't always need to try to find the strongest way to disagree. Pounding another into the ground to make your point.
The origional idea was to hear different views concerning the Packers ground game, not to have people scared to share for fear of being ripped appart! This is America, were better than that!

 

[60six]

We score by throwing and I hope we keep that trend up. Would love to see Green become a monster catching passes in the flat.

 

[Poppa San]

I want to understand why discussing the ground game upsets some. Does it strike a nerve. We don't always need to try to find the strongest way to disagree. Pounding another into the ground to make your point...............

or it could be that people that have been on this board for more than a few months are tired of rehashing the same subject every few months (really heated up two seasons ago).
http://www.packerforum.com/threads/why-didnt-we-trade-for-marshawn-lynch-again.24606/
http://www.packerforum.com/threads/...season-as-he-did-last-year.36917/#post-448799
http://www.packerforum.com/threads/welcome-back-ahman-green.36717/#post-447373
http://www.packerforum.com/threads/mccarthy-seeks-efficient-running-game.35456/
http://www.packerforum.com/threads/matt-forte.34375/

Actually it can be summed up one of two ways: the Packer running game is sufficient for the offense they run or it needs a serious upgrade to become a ground and pound to keep defenses "honest." Most posters here are in those two camps. And like politics & religion, opinions don't really change no matter what facts are used.

 

[P-E-Z]

The passing game is one of the best in the league and is comfortably deep.
Six out of eight draft picks were on defence, so that is being addressed.
Even Mr. Jolly may be allowed to try to return.
I know how a running game can suddenly become important to a team regardless of how good the passing game is.
What if one of the rookie QB's has to step in and can't hit a bulls backside with a bass fiddle?
What if during a critical game a running game is needed to eat clock and keep the other teams offence off the Field?
What if the other teams corners, linebackers, and safeties are shuting us down?
Over 50 years I've seen what results from too much cocky confidance. I only hope that when they take these horses out of the barn that they are throughbreds and not Toney the poney!

You hit all of the major point except weather..... in high winds or heavy rain or snow you need a running game. If you do not have a good running you will have problems. The other problem is if a run game is weak, you get a team who going all out stop the pass. Last years playoff game for example. Also remember blocking by the line is critical in any run game. Its not completely Starks or Grants fault.

 

[ivo610]

I want to understand why discussing the ground game upsets some. Does it strike a nerve. We don't always need to try to find the strongest way to disagree. Pounding another into the ground to make your point.
The origional idea was to hear different views concerning the Packers ground game, not to have people scared to share for fear of being ripped appart! This is America, were better than that!

As someone previously noted its one of the most covered topics on the forum.

Cue the lynch thread....

While its clear you want a better run game, several posters have asked legit questions regarding how it would happen ie: salary cap, run blockers vs pass blockers, how to acquire said back(s) and you have yet to engage in any sort of back and forth discussion on the concerns. Instead you throw a fit and blame the forum and I for not agreeing with you.

Nevermind the fact that in todays era you are more likely to go to the SB as a below avg running team than an above avg running team.

So please, if you want this to be a meaningful discussion, address the concerns already touched on.

 

[P-E-Z]

There one thing to keep in mind ...... every aspect of the game is important.
You ask 49er fan about how important the punt return team is.....
You need to have running game to win even if its a 60/40 split with passing. Once your once you are one dimensional you can't win. 3.9 yards per rush per attempt is 27th in the league. There plenty of room for improvement.

 

[60six]

There one thing to keep in mind ...... every aspect of the game is important.
You ask 49er fan about how important the punt return team is.....
You need to have running game to win even if its a 60/40 split with passing. Once your once you are one dimensional you can't win. 3.9 yards per rush per attempt is 27th in the league. There plenty of room for improvement.

Really......Last year the New York Football Giants were last in rushing yards and YPC.

 

[P-E-Z]

Giants were also 9-7 in regular season. Their ground game stepped in last 2 games and in playoffs. They put up 466 yards in playoffs.

 

[60six]

Top 5 rushing teams last year....2 make the playoffs.

Top 5 passing teams last year....all 5 make the playoffs

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

16 RB's and FB's were chosen by their peers to be in the 2012 Top Player's List! Including John Kuhn at#92.

 

[P-E-Z]

out of top 5 rushing teams who you did not make it Panthers who not good overall team. 1/3 of the running yards was QB. The Eagles who who never jelled as a team. Vikings were just pathetic.

 

[P-E-Z]

out of top 5 rushing teams who you did not make it Panthers who not good overall team. 1/3 of the running yards was QB. The Eagles who who never jelled as a team. Vikings were just pathetic.

The Viking and Panthers were all running no passing game and that is one dimensional.

 

[ivo610]

There one thing to keep in mind ...... every aspect of the game is important.
You ask 49er fan about how important the punt return team is.....
You need to have running game to win even if its a 60/40 split with passing. Once your once you are one dimensional you can't win. 3.9 yards per rush per attempt is 27th in the league. There plenty of room for improvement.

Balanced attacks are for teams with ****** QBs.

IE: Buffalo, 15th in passing 13th in rushing.

High amounts of passing comes with teams that have the ability to do so.

IE: the top 10 passing teams last season all have elite passers.

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

The ground game or any other thread posted in this forum should be constructed with statistically cold hard facts. Such facts like, John Kuhn plays the fullback position for the Packers, are ok. On the other hand, saying that John Kuhn is an important player is an openion and not a clinical fact. Stick to supportable facts as if you were in a court of law. If unsupported theories like. I would like to see the running backs perform better this season as it may be helpfull to the team, are used, be carefull. There are those that are always waiting to ponce upon a good natured post. Also bear in mind that some enjoy a higher statis than others and are shielded. Remember, if you are fairly new here, that standing up for yourself may be frowned upon if the wrong person and/or persons are challanged. Sometimes justice is only blind in one eye. Let us hope we do not need a running game, that it will be good enough to get by with.

There, was that OK there Bosss, because I sure don't want to ruffle any feathers arround here.

 

[TJV]

Playing the "victim card" Smokeycheddar, really? You were the one that posted:

The running game is no less important than any other part of the team! That is my point of view and it will not change.

And you proceeded to back that up with nothing. How your posts were treated has nothing to do with you being relatively new to the forum. It has nothing to do with standing up for yourself or who you "challenged". Actually you haven't challenged anyone or anything. How about this: Either admit that the running game is not as important as the passing game in today's NFL OR back up your point of view that it is equally important with something? IOW, go ahead and ruffle feathers with stats, facts or logic. That would certainly be preferable to whining…

 

[60six]

The ground game or any other thread posted in this forum should be constructed with statistically cold hard facts. Such facts like, John Kuhn plays the fullback position for the Packers, are ok. On the other hand, saying that John Kuhn is an important player is an openion and not a clinical fact. Stick to supportable facts as if you were in a court of law. If unsupported theories like. I would like to see the running backs perform better this season as it may be helpfull to the team, are used, be carefull. There are those that are always waiting to ponce upon a good natured post. Also bear in mind that some enjoy a higher statis than others and are shielded. Remember, if you are fairly new here, that standing up for yourself may be frowned upon if the wrong person and/or persons are challanged. Sometimes justice is only blind in one eye. Let us hope we do not need a running game, that it will be good enough to get by with.

There, was that OK there Bosss, because I sure don't want to ruffle any feathers arround here.

You're playing the "hurt" card again ? Sports chat forums arent for everybody I guess.