The Amari Rodgers Thread

captainWIMM

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I do agree that Bisaccia is making the STs call. What I don't understand is why they haven't moved on from Rodgers.

I guess the coaching staff doesn't believe there's an upgrade over Amari currently on the roster as a returner.

Doubs runs well in a crowd, at least in the limited views I've had. He has the instincts of a running back. But yeah, the risk of injury is too high I guess. I do wish he would get more targets on O.

Doubs is leading all wide receivers on the roster in targets with eight. You need to change your expectations if you truly believe he should be targeted more often at this point.

Give him 2-3 attempts per game and there’s a high likelyhood he scores or breaks some biggies this season. Worst case we start at the 26 (his college average) instead of our 22 or whatever. I thought about injury, but We gotta stop playing scaredy Cat and get our best on that field on every play.

There's no guarantees Watson would average 26 yards per attempt in the NFL as well.

Cut him, bring back Ervin.

Ervin hasn't played since week 13 of the 2020 season.

??what??
A gadget player is not an insult.

Is Deeboe Samuel a bad player??

What about Cordarelle Patterson? Was he a bad player in Minnesota or Chicago?

I think there's a huge difference between a gadget player and one that excels as a receiver/running back but a team can use on gadget plays.

The Packers want Watson to turn into a latter but not the first one.
 

Heyjoe4

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I guess the coaching staff doesn't believe there's an upgrade over Amari currently on the roster as a returner.



Doubs is leading all wide receivers on the roster in targets with eight. You need to change your expectations if you truly believe he should be targeted more often at this point.



There's no guarantees Watson would average 26 yards per attempt in the NFL as well.



Ervin hasn't played since week 13 of the 2020 season.



I think there's a huge difference between a gadget player and one that excels as a receiver/running back but a team can use on gadget plays.

The Packers want Watson to turn into a latter but not the first one.
So Doubs has 8 targets in two games and you note it's above my expectations for more targets. What do you base that on? It would help if you explain when you disagree with a comment.
 
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There's no guarantees Watson would average 26 yards per attempt in the NFL as well.
What is your prediction for Amari in this game?
What’s your score prediction?
What’s your estimation of how we use Watson?
What’s your breakdown on run Vs pass prediction@Tampa?
Give us an idea of how the game will flow
 

Heyjoe4

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Im talking about doing both.WR + KR

Several are Touchback and beyond the opening Kick you might have 2-3 per game that are returnable?

I’d rather have a guy who runs a 1.45 10 yard split and he has turbo jets if he sees a hole he’s gone. He’s run a 4.28-4.36 40 yard and nobody on the field is catching him outside of a yard of separation. Raw Speed is a key ingredient at KR, ask Desmond Howard. Plus he’s got a great stiff arm.

In college he had 26 KR for 686 yards and 2 TD. It’s not like he has to learn 75 different route trees. Get him involved on a couple each game. He can still do his Offensive Packages Matt has (unless he scores a 100 yard TD, then I’d rest him) ;)

Give him 2-3 attempts per game and there’s a high likelyhood he scores or breaks some biggies this season. Worst case we start at the 26 (his college average) instead of our 22 or whatever. I thought about injury, but We gotta stop playing scaredy Cat and get our best on that field on every play.
"Worst case (using Watson as a returner) we start at the 26 (apparently his college return average)."

Worst case......

Do you understand that experience at North Dakota State isn't remotely similar to experience in the NFL? It's unrealistic to assume any player would do as well at the NFL-level than they did in college during their rookie year, especially from a college like North Dakota State. It takes even the best college players time to adapt to the NFL.
 
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"Worst case (using Watson as a returner) we start at the 26 (apparently his college return average)."

Worst case......

Do you understand that experience at North Dakota State isn't remotely similar to experience in the NFL? It's unrealistic to assume any player would do as well at the NFL-level than they did in college during their rookie year, especially from a college like North Dakota State. It takes even the best college players time to adapt to the NFL.
While that is true. Jeff Janis averaged that.
Did he come from an elite school?
Was he faster or more proven at KR than Christian? He had 7 returns at Saginaw Valley State.

Btw. I’m not sure why you guys are so adverse at the simple mentioning of trying Christian at KR.
Do we seriously think he’s much worse than our current option? Give me a break. Lol
 
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Heyjoe4

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While that is true. Jeff Janis averaged that.
Did he come from an elite school?
Was he faster or more proven at KR than Christian? He had 7 returns at Saginaw Valley State.

Btw. I’m not sure why you guys are so avid at the simple mentioning of trying Christian at KR.
Do we seriously think he’s much worse than our current option? Give me a break. Lol
I don't think I ever said I was averse to Watson as a KR. I agree Rodgers has been terrible. I think Doubs is a better choice. But anyone is a better choice. Give Watson a chance.
 

captainWIMM

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So Doubs has 8 targets in two games and you note it's above my expectations for more targets. What do you base that on? It would help if you explain when you disagree with a comment.

You mentioned that you wanted Doubs and Watson to be targeted more often. I think that's an unrealistic expectation considering both of them have been targeted more often than other receivers on the roster two games into their careers.

What is your prediction for Amari in this game?
What’s your score prediction?
What’s your estimation of how we use Watson?
What’s your breakdown on run Vs pass prediction@Tampa?
Give us an idea of how the game will flow

What does that have to do with not expecting Watson to average 26 yards per kickoff return just because he did it at North Dakota State?

Btw. I’m not sure why you guys are so adverse at the simple mentioning of trying Christian at KR.
Do we seriously think he’s much worse than our current option? Give me a break. Lol

Nobody is averse of using Watson on kickoff returns. I trust Bisaccia would make a change if he believed he would be an upgrade over Amari though.
 

Heyjoe4

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You mentioned that you wanted Doubs and Watson to be targeted more often. I think that's an unrealistic expectation considering both of them have been targeted more often than other receivers on the roster two games into their careers.



What does that have to do with not expecting Watson to average 26 yards per kickoff return just because he did it at North Dakota State?



Nobody is averse of using Watson on kickoff returns. I trust Bisaccia would make a change if he believed he would be an upgrade over Amari though.
As far as Watson and Doubs targets - if they are leading the team, and I take your word for it, then yeah they probably aren't going to get more targets until they start catching the ball and making an impact. It seems that Watkins and Cobb, in limited action, are doing some damage and Jones and Dillon are dual threats. So if anything, and based on your comment, Rodgers may want to stick with the veterans for now, especially with the Bucs coming up.

I probably missed the fact that Doubs/Watson are getting more targets because they aren't doing much with them. And my expectations, at least for Doubs, were too high this early in their careers.
 

tynimiller

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As far as Watson and Doubs targets - if they are leading the team, and I take your word for it, then yeah they probably aren't going to get more targets until they start catching the ball and making an impact. It seems that Watkins and Cobb, in limited action, are doing some damage and Jones and Dillon are dual threats. So if anything, and based on your comment, Rodgers may want to stick with the veterans for now, especially with the Bucs coming up.

I probably missed the fact that Doubs/Watson are getting more targets because they aren't doing much with them. And my expectations, at least for Doubs, were too high this early in their careers.
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Watkins' one big play still this early is inflating his average per catch, but they're doing just fine in producing yards when targeted.
 

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Watkins' one big play still this early is inflating his average per catch, but they're doing just fine in producing yards when targeted.
Thanks, good stuff. There are six guys with between 7 and 9 targets. I'm not sure why you said Doubs and Watson were leading the team in targets, but the difference between these six guys is so small it doesn't matter.

Average per catch is also close at the top, aside from the one play where Watkins picked up 55 yards - that skews things this early.

Well I guess the rookies are producing about as well as anyone else. I don't count Lazard as he missed a game, and these stats will mean more when the number of games increases.

Any predictions for Sunday? Tampa's D looks unstoppable this early, giving up 13 pts in two games. I don't think Evans is playing, but that won't matter. GB's inexperienced receivers against this Tampa D...... Low scoring, but Tampa is very likely to win, call it 20-10. I hope I'm wrong.
 

tynimiller

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Thanks, good stuff. There are six guys with between 7 and 9 targets. I'm not sure why you said Doubs and Watson were leading the team in targets, but the difference between these six guys is so small it doesn't matter.

Average per catch is also close at the top, aside from the one play where Watkins picked up 55 yards - that skews things this early.

Well I guess the rookies are producing about as well as anyone else. I don't count Lazard as he missed a game, and these stats will mean more when the number of games increases.

Any predictions for Sunday? Tampa's D looks unstoppable this early, giving up 13 pts in two games. I don't think Evans is playing, but that won't matter. GB's inexperienced receivers against this Tampa D...... Low scoring, but Tampa is very likely to win, call it 20-10. I hope I'm wrong.

I didn't bring up who led targets. Capt did originally, but yes, Doubs is actually leading targets - which I wouldn't have guessed if asked until I looked at the stats
 

tynimiller

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As for Sunday I predicted a 24-20 win by us, but it won't be a gorgeous day for either offense I think. We get one big play from either rookie, otherwise our RBs continue to make things move.
 

Heyjoe4

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I didn't bring up who led targets. Capt did originally, but yes, Doubs is actually leading targets - which I wouldn't have guessed if asked until I looked at the stats
Same here. Just shows me how fast the game goes by. Well I hope Doubs can fulfill on the promise he showed in TC, and some flashes we've seen in the first two games. He has an amazing amount of intuition for the game and how he runs before and after the catch, amazing for any rookie really. I hope he has a great year.
 
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What does that have to do with not expecting Watson to average 26 yards per kickoff return just because he did it at North Dakota State?
Absolutely zero. I was just curious because I noticed you often diminish other people routinely on their projections or ideas, but you rarely offer any of your own in those responses. Anyone can copy and paste a dozen messages and say "I don't think so" to this or that. As @Heyjoe4 mentioned. If you are going to be repetitively critical that's fine, but you have a responsibility to offer your own projection or ideas versus just being negative. If you are going to diminish an idea for a poster (or me for that matter) I am going to ask you what your idea is instead so just be prepared for that, it's only fair. I Tried to put that as respectfully as I could

So, I'm asking you again, in any Amari Rodgers thread, how do you think he will be used at Tampa and what type of projection you would make on this player for the season?
Do you think Christian will ever be used in any capacity on ST or if not, why not? It's called having a 2 way conversation
 
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Voyageur

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Learning the playbook is such a huge part of the equation these days, especially on an Aaron Rodgers-led team where he's calling lots of audibles. Typically you get a 5-10 seconds on your jog from the huddle to the line to digest the play call. Audibles reduce that to only a second or two. If you don't know the playbook and therefore can't react quickly to audibles, you will be in Aaron's doghouse. Hopefully Amari has spent the time on not just his body but also his mind. Confidence really comes from knowing the offense and opposing defense extremely well.

It reminds me of a quote that I recently read about Bart Star after he was named league MVP in '66. At that point he made up for his lack of arm strength and speed in the pocket with all of the other intangibles such as poise, mental toughness, discipline, accountability, leadership, and confidence. The quote was by Detroit's safety Bruce Maher who said, "I'd have to say that Bart Starr is now the best quarterback in the league. I know Unitas can burn you faster with that arm of his. But Starr can beat you more ways. He frustrates you. He keeps going to your weaknesses. And when you adjust, he find the new weakness. And when you do something about that, he comes back with the old play and finds the old weakness again."

Another good quote but this time from Boyd Dowler, "He could look at a linebacker on Sunday and through the study of film and his experience tell when they were going to blitz. It had to do with down-and-distance. It had to do with alignment. He had blitz audibles. And when Bart read a defense, he never hung you up. He never threw you into **** Butkus."

Football confidence comes from two places - experience and knowledge. Amari Rodgers doesn't yet have the experience but he can try to master the second part. Knowledge comes from both knowing your own playbook and also from knowing your opponent through film study.
Most people, who haven't been that close to the game, and the nuances, will never understand the subtle things that can change an assignment in as many as 10 ways, based on the defense, their movement, and the changes made on the offense, by the QB, at the line of scrimmage. With Rodgers, it's not only those roughly 10 changes, it's the reads that you need to make on the defenders after the ball is snapped, and how it can modify your route, and objective. Not everyone grasps it so quickly. To some guys, it takes two, three years, and they start being productive about the 4th year.

In some cases, it's because the guy is dense, and in others, it's because they're being introduced to a completely different type of offense than they experienced in HS and college, and it takes a lot of work completely rebuilding your game from scratch.

It's like learning, and using a foreign language. We had an exchange student with us for two years. When he first got to our home, he was having a rough time speaking, and understanding English. I noticed he kept translating things. I told him that he should concentrate on thinking in English, and it would come more naturally. Within 2 weeks, his English improved immensely. He told me that it was definitely what made it work for him.

When he was on the phone, to family back in Spain, he had to shut English out, and think in Spanish, before they started conversations. Then, when he was off the phone, he switched to English. Eventually, it became as easy as flipping a light switch.

It's quite a bit like that in football. Ask Gary. It took him time to conquer the nuances, because until you do, you don't operate at full potential.
 

Heyjoe4

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Most people, who haven't been that close to the game, and the nuances, will never understand the subtle things that can change an assignment in as many as 10 ways, based on the defense, their movement, and the changes made on the offense, by the QB, at the line of scrimmage. With Rodgers, it's not only those roughly 10 changes, it's the reads that you need to make on the defenders after the ball is snapped, and how it can modify your route, and objective. Not everyone grasps it so quickly. To some guys, it takes two, three years, and they start being productive about the 4th year.

In some cases, it's because the guy is dense, and in others, it's because they're being introduced to a completely different type of offense than they experienced in HS and college, and it takes a lot of work completely rebuilding your game from scratch.

It's like learning, and using a foreign language. We had an exchange student with us for two years. When he first got to our home, he was having a rough time speaking, and understanding English. I noticed he kept translating things. I told him that he should concentrate on thinking in English, and it would come more naturally. Within 2 weeks, his English improved immensely. He told me that it was definitely what made it work for him.

When he was on the phone, to family back in Spain, he had to shut English out, and think in Spanish, before they started conversations. Then, when he was off the phone, he switched to English. Eventually, it became as easy as flipping a light switch.

It's quite a bit like that in football. Ask Gary. It took him time to conquer the nuances, because until you do, you don't operate at full potential.
Between you and El Guapo, this is the most meaningful football information I've seen on this site for years. And yeah, that includes my comments.

My thanks to both of you for explaining the intricacies of a game we all love. It explains so much, especially why it can take three years for even the best college players to learn the "language" of the NFL. In fact learning a foreign language is a great analogy.

I wish there was more discussion like this. I do get tired of posters who go out of their way to say "left" just because someone said "right". I'm sure you all know what I mean.

I come here to share my opinion and to hopefully learn some things. I can't do that if I always insist on being right and picking someone else's comments to pieces.

Anyway, my thanks to you both for the excellent information and contributions to this forum.
 

captainWIMM

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As far as Watson and Doubs targets - if they are leading the team, and I take your word for it, then yeah they probably aren't going to get more targets until they start catching the ball and making an impact. It seems that Watkins and Cobb, in limited action, are doing some damage and Jones and Dillon are dual threats. So if anything, and based on your comment, Rodgers may want to stick with the veterans for now, especially with the Bucs coming up.

I probably missed the fact that Doubs/Watson are getting more targets because they aren't doing much with them. And my expectations, at least for Doubs, were too high this early in their careers.

Once again, Rodgers is throwing to both Doubs and Watson. It would have been unrealistic to expect him to target them as much as he did with Adams the past few years.

Thanks, good stuff. There are six guys with between 7 and 9 targets. I'm not sure why you said Doubs and Watson were leading the team in targets, but the difference between these six guys is so small it doesn't matter.

I mentione that Doubs and Watson lead all wide receivers in targets.

I was just curious because I noticed you often diminish other people routinely on their projections or ideas, but you rarely offer any of your own in those responses. Anyone can copy and paste a dozen messages and say "I don't think so" to this or that. As @Heyjoe4 mentioned. If you are going to be repetitively critical that's fine, but you have a responsibility to offer your own projection or ideas versus just being negative. If you are going to diminish an idea for a poster (or me for that matter) I am going to ask you what your idea is instead so just be prepared for that, it's only fair.

I don't have any responsibilty around here at all. I tell you something though, I don't give a rat's *** about any predictions, no matter who they are coming from. I don't read and I don't care about it as none of them will be accurate.

I could tell you that I believe the Packers will lose a low scoring game to the Bucs on Sunday with Rodgers struggling because of a lack of talent at receiver etc...

You need to realize that whether I'm wrong or right about it doesn't mean I know more or less about the game on Monday as I do now.

There's a huge difference in pointing out that Watson averaging 26 yards per kickoff return for an FCS team doesn't mean he will automatically be as successful in the NFL though.

If you can't handle me pointing that out that's your problem, not mine.

So, I'm asking you again, in any Amari Rodgers thread, how do you think he will be used at Tampa and what type of projection you would make on this player for the season?
Do you think Christian will ever be used in any capacity on ST or if not, why not? It's called having a 2 way conversation

No, it should actually be called a senseless conversation. But I'll play for once.

I expect Amari to be the returner once again at Tampa, returning only one kickoff for 23 yards while taking the touchback on three others (four, seven and eight yards deep in the endzone). In addition he will return two punts for 14 yards, fair catching two others and let one hit the ground which travels another six yards. He won't see the field on offense.

After that game is where I predict his season to take an unexpected turn. What you don't know is that Amari is a huge fan of former Packers running back Travis Jervey and just like his idol bought a lion himself. That damn cat will bite him in the arm at some point next week, resulting in him being put on injured reserve.

That will allow Watson to be the primary returner moving forward. With the coaches considering him an upgrade over Amari Gutekunst trades him to the Raiders for a conditional seventh round pick. While he never sees the field in the NFL again he's happy to watch his lion grow up on the Lion Habitat Ranch in Henderson, Nevada.

You can call me out if one of those things don't happen. I don't care.
 
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Once again, Rodgers is throwing to both Doubs and Watson. It would have been unrealistic to expect him to target them as much as he did with Adams the past few years.



I mentione that Doubs and Watson lead all wide receivers in targets.



I don't have any responsibilty around here at all. I tell you something though, I don't give a rat's *** about any predictions, no matter who they are coming from. I don't read and I don't care about it as none of them will be accurate.

I could tell you that I believe the Packers will lose a low scoring game to the Bucs on Sunday with Rodgers struggling because of a lack of talent at receiver etc...

You need to realize that whether I'm wrong or right about it doesn't mean I know more or less about the game on Monday as I do now.

There's a huge difference in pointing out that Watson averaging 26 yards per kickoff return for an FCS team doesn't mean he will automatically be as successful in the NFL though.

If you can't handle me pointing that out that's your problem, not mine.



No, it should actually be called a senseless conversation. But I'll play for once.

I expect Amari to be the returner once again at Tampa, returning only one kickoff for 23 yards while taking the touchback on three others (four, seven and eight yards deep in the endzone). In addition he will return two punts for 14 yards, fair catching two others and let one hit the ground which travels another six yards. He won't see the field on offense.

After that game is where I predict his season to take an unexpected turn. What you don't know is that Amari is a huge fan of former Packers running back Travis Jervey and just like his idol bought a lion himself. That damn cat will bite him in the arm at some point next week, resulting in him being put on injured reserve.

That will allow Watson to be the primary returner moving forward. With the coaches considering him an upgrade over Amari Gutekunst trades him to the Raiders for a conditional seventh round pick. While he never sees the field in the NFL again he's happy to watch his lion grow up on the Lion Habitat Ranch in Henderson, Nevada.

You can call me out if one of those things don't happen. I don't care.
Ok thanks. If anyone was defensive? it should’ve been me after some of that condescending stuff you directed, but it’s really kids stuff and I guess I probably partook at some point, so no hard feelings here
Pretty funny about Lion thing, maybe he should’ve stuck with a more Docile Dolphin!
 
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captainWIMM

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If anyone was defensive? it should’ve been me after some of that condescending stuff you directed, but it’s really kids stuff and I guess I probably partook at some point, so no hard feelings here

In my opinion it's sad that we live in a society in which everybody gets offended by basically everything.

I don't consider it a big deal to call someone else's idea to be stupid as on the other side I can handle it if someone thinks about one of mine in that way.

Unfortunately most people can't even deal with another person having a different opinion anymore.
 

Schultz

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Speak for yourself. I vehemently disagree with your opinion that I can't handle someone having a different opinion than mine
 

captainWIMM

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There is a difference in disagreeing and utterly dismissing. Just sayin…

I wholeheartedly agree with that take.

But let me clear about it, I didn't even disagree with @OldSchool101 about his take on Watson's potential returning kickoffs. I just wanted to point out that because he had an average of 26 yards returning kickoffs for the best FCS college program doesn't automatically mean he will be able to put up similar numbers in the NFL.

And I'm sorry, but I will call out another poster justifying Love's selection because in his opinion it was a smart approach to draft Love as it might take more than one try to adequately replace the best quarterback to ever play for the Green and Gold.
 

milani

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I just can't believe that Amari is our best option at punt returning. He's learned to catch the ball and can run ahead for 10 yards when the punt is long...but that's about it.
Whether it is receiving or returning he has to come up with at least one breakout play before he can be given the keys. When Adams was a rookie Rodgers gave him some chances. By the time of the Cowboy playoff game he made several big plays and Rodgers believed in him. We had big expectations for Amari. So far we cannot be ecstatic.
 

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