The Aaron Rodgers performance thread

What's our main problem?


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GreenNGold_81

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Then who do you think we should count on at TE? Bring back Graham? I don't see anyone in FA and this isn't a good year for that position in the draft. We took Sternberger in the 3rs round so there must be something there that they liked.

At this time I think we're pot committed to Jace as the future starter considering he was drafted for his pass catching upside. I'd also like to see what he and Tonyan can do as a duo. Jace, Tonyan, Lewis, draft pick should be our Te's next year.
 
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Then who do you think we should count on at TE? Bring back Graham? I don't see anyone in FA and this isn't a good year for that position in the draft. We took Sternberger in the 3rs round so there must be something there that they liked.

At this point Austin Hooper and Hunter Henry are still set to become free agents. While that might change I would prefer signing either of them than relying on Sternberger to have an impact.

The Packers definitely liked Jace coming out of college but there's no reason to rely on him developing into a decent tight end in time for next season. It takes first rounders several years at the position to perform up to expectations.
 
H

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OK, you're crazy. ;) I doubt throwing zero interceptions in a season is any kind of Rodgers objective. We've seen throws into sideline coverage that are psudo-punts, including one this season, where a pick is as good as a punt, in a risk-reward calculation.

"Just slinging it", with Winston being the most extreme example. isn't anything you want to see from your QB.
It's interesting to see that Winston underwent Lasik surgery.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...n-undergoes-lasik-eye-surgery-nearsightedness

I'm surprised to read he has not been playing with contact lenses. That's a new twist on "not seeing the field."
 

Pokerbrat2000

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the one person who always comes up for blame when discussing rodgers only having one SB ring is thompson (the Packers front office) and justifiably so. never heard anyone blame rodgers himself. that can't be applied to the thompson years and the team hasn't been good enough in the years since. he's always been cocky...which i liked. he backed it up and being the highest paid qb was cool as he was earning it. Packers outsiders never liked it though. now he's seen as, as you put it, "decent" but, over-paid, attitudinal, and can't back it up in his current state of self awareness. that's what's making him a target. he doesn't give crap what people think. he keeps feeding into that...going on danica's show for example. i think he's got a couple of decent years left. they've got to keep upgrading personnel, he's got to buy-in fully and yes "manage" the offense. I'm 100% certain he can do it at a higher level than 2018 goff or 2019 garoppolo who's offense MLF wants to run but looked nothing like ours for the most part. MLF has been very PC in his post season comments, towards the subject of his offense, as you'd expect. i'm ready for the draft and to see what next season brings...keeping expectations real. ;)

This isn't only for you, but given your stance on Roders, you are an easy one to "pick on" ;)

What is so funny about this post is that it comes from you. You started it out just perfectly. Talking about Rodgers not having enough good players around him during his career to sniff the SB enough. Thompson failing him and the Packers. Spot on man, you finally see the light! Or do you? Only 2 years have passed since Thompson left and you expect everything to be cured? By who? Just Rodgers? Thompson did not leave this organization draft wise in very good shape and Gute not hitting on a new TE or WR's hasn't helped matters.

Then you go off on your tangent about how Rodgers has changed and his attitude is the problem. I got news for you, he really hasn't changed a lot. He is still the same cocky, slightly moody guy that he was in the draft room in 2005. Same guy that nobody had a problem with when they won a Super Bowl. What has changed are the fans and media trying to explain why the Packers aren't winning more Super Bowls under his guidance and trying to put it all on Rodgers. Do you think Rodgers had enough offensive weapons last year to really put up big numbers and hang with a team like the 49'ers? 2018 while playing hurt, did he have much in the way of offensive weapons?

Has Rodgers skill set declined some? Yes, of course, but he is still capable of outplaying quite a few QB's in the NFL, but Gute is going to have to find a way to give him some help on offense for Rodgers and the Packers to sniff another Super Bowl.

As a Cowboys fan had to point out to us, we are still pretty lucky to have Rodgers as a QB and if people don't see that, they are fooling themselves that improving upon him is as easy as they want to make themselves and others think.
 

Mondio

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As a Cowboys fan had to point out to us, we are still pretty lucky to have Rodgers as a QB and if people don't see that, they are fooling themselves that improving upon him is as easy as they want to make themselves and others think.
I think most of us still feel pretty fortunate call Rodgers our QB, flaws and all.
 

Do7

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I won't deny the possibility of Rodgers being difficult at times, but to be honest that's anyone, especially a great QBs. No one is flawless, but considering how many previous teammates spoke more positive about him than in comparison with ex teammates, I say the good certainly outweighs the bad. Rodgers may have his issues, but he's not unapproachable.
 

gbgary

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This isn't only for you, but given your stance on Roders, you are an easy one to "pick on" ;)

What is so funny about this post is that it comes from you. You started it out just perfectly. Talking about Rodgers not having enough good players around him during his career to sniff the SB enough. Thompson failing him and the Packers. Spot on man, you finally see the light! Or do you? Only 2 years have passed since Thompson left and you expect everything to be cured? By who? Just Rodgers? Thompson did not leave this organization draft wise in very good shape and Gute not hitting on a new TE or WR's hasn't helped matters.

Then you go off on your tangent about how Rodgers has changed and his attitude is the problem. I got news for you, he really hasn't changed a lot. He is still the same cocky, slightly moody guy that he was in the draft room in 2005. Same guy that nobody had a problem with when they won a Super Bowl. What has changed are the fans and media trying to explain why the Packers aren't winning more Super Bowls under his guidance and trying to put it all on Rodgers. Do you think Rodgers had enough offensive weapons last year to really put up big numbers and hang with a team like the 49'ers? 2018 while playing hurt, did he have much in the way of offensive weapons?

Has Rodgers skill set declined some? Yes, of course, but he is still capable of outplaying quite a few QB's in the NFL, but Gute is going to have to find a way to give him some help on offense for Rodgers and the Packers to sniff another Super Bowl.

As a Cowboys fan had to point out to us, we are still pretty lucky to have Rodgers as a QB and if people don't see that, they are fooling themselves that improving upon him is as easy as they want to make themselves and others think.
i've always said the thompson draft-and-develop philosophy didn't serve Rogers well. his last few years were particularly poor.

the gute regime has started off well but hasn't been perfect. others expected things to be cured in that short time but not me. there were just too many issues to fix in 2 seasons. i predicted 8-8, 9-7 for last season (if all worked out great) if you remember.

i didn't say rodgers has changed either (other than his skills diminishing some)...but i have said he needs to change as those skills diminish. mentally he's pretty much the same rodgers he's been since say...2014.

as far as personnel upgrades i didn't say the players "around rodgers" specifically. i was referring to the team as a whole when i said "they've got to keep upgrading personnel." both sides of the ball still have major shortcomings.

rodgers is still good enough to win a SB and he doesn't need to "put up big numbers" to do it either. completion percentage in the high 60's alone would be massive. that's why buying-in fully is so crucial. it's a qb friendly offense IF it's taken advantage of. had he used this last season to run the offense MLF really wants to run they'd be entering this next season much further along than they will be.

it'll take more talent, cap space, luck, and time, than this team has to actually win a SB. i just don't see it happening.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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gute regime has started off well but hasn't been perfect

I would say that where Gute hasn't done very well for the Packers is the offense. I liked his moves to bolster the OL, but so far his moves to fix the TE and WR's have been misses. I think we will see that change this off season.

I know some won't agree with me, but I think the fact that Rodgers has been so good during his career, both Thompson and now Gute didn't feel like they needed to draft or sign a lot of offensive weapons and the offense would still be good.
 

GreenNGold_81

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I would say that where Gute hasn't done very well for the Packers is the offense. I liked his moves to bolster the OL, but so far his moves to fix the TE and WR's have been misses. I think we will see that change this off season.

I know some won't agree with me, but I think the fact that Rodgers has been so good during his career, both Thompson and now Gute didn't feel like they needed to draft or sign a lot of offensive weapons and the offense would still be good.

Or they saw their defense get rail roaded year after year and wanted to stop the beat down. Unsuccessfully in Ted's case as he neglected free agency for the most part and McCarthy was tied to Capers hip. Gute's talent evaluation so far has been just ok IMO, but it's his willingness to dip into free agency that has me excited.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Gute's talent evaluation so far has been just ok IMO, but it's his willingness to dip into free agency that has me excited.

Never heard much about the college scouts and if they were let go after Gute took over. Overall, I wouldn't give the lot of them, under Teddy or Gute, a very high grade over the last several years, especially when it comes to evaluating defensive help.
 

Pugger

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At this point Austin Hooper and Hunter Henry are still set to become free agents. While that might change I would prefer signing either of them than relying on Sternberger to have an impact.

The Packers definitely liked Jace coming out of college but there's no reason to rely on him developing into a decent tight end in time for next season. It takes first rounders several years at the position to perform up to expectations.

What would a Hooper or Henry cost on the open market this offseason?
 

gbgary

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I would say that where Gute hasn't done very well for the Packers is the offense. I liked his moves to bolster the OL, but so far his moves to fix the TE and WR's have been misses. I think we will see that change this off season.

I know some won't agree with me, but I think the fact that Rodgers has been so good during his career, both Thompson and now Gute didn't feel like they needed to draft or sign a lot of offensive weapons and the offense would still be good.
i think the D was in much worse shape than the O. this next draft will go to the O but not until the 2nd round. a DT or ILB needs to be chosen before any O players...but that's just me. maybe O will get the nod in FA.
 
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it's a qb friendly offense IF it's taken advantage of. had he used this last season to run the offense MLF really wants to run they'd be entering this next season much further along than they will be.

That's the crux why most posters disagree with you. There's no evidence that Rodgers didn't run MLF's offense last season yet you consider it a fact.

What would a Hooper or Henry cost on the open market this offseason?

I guess it would take at least $9-10 million a season to sign either one of them.
 

gbgary

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That's the crux why most posters disagree with you. There's no evidence that Rodgers didn't run MLF's offense last season yet you consider it a fact.
they ran it some of the time. all you have to do to know they didn't run the complete shanahan (MLF) O is open your eyes and ears. the formations, pace, timing, wasn't there a lot of the time. the mccarthy spread O was featured a lot of the time. there was too much shotgun, too much holding the ball...especially the first three quarters of the season. listen to their own words in the pressers. if you choose not to see/hear it, well...
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Saw that this article got nominated for a yearly award, so I thought I would reread it. Good article that was written before the 2019 season, about what MLF was going to be doing. Will be interesting to see what year #2 under the new offense will bring the Packers, especially if Gute can put a couple more legit weapons on that side of the ball. Also, while reading this article, I have to wonder and think that maybe MLF's system is a lot more forgiving if you ever have to trot a backup QB in. I remember with McCarthy's offenses, bringing in the backup up meant having to water the playbook down. That could also vary on the skill level of your #2 I guess.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...s-evolution-matt-lafleurs-offense/1860523001/
 

Mondio

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they ran it some of the time. all you have to do to know they didn't run the complete shanahan (MLF) O is open your eyes and ears. the formations, pace, timing, wasn't there a lot of the time. the mccarthy spread O was featured a lot of the time. there was too much shotgun, too much holding the ball...especially the first three quarters of the season. listen to their own words in the pressers. if you choose not to see/hear it, well...
Or consider the fact this isn't Shanahan with a robo QB, there is so much more available with THIS QB than THAT QB.

Consider this is a first year HC who's smart to use his QB to his strengths but has a steep learning curve in being THE coach and putting it all together.

Consider we don't have the TE of a "Shanahan" offense do we?

Consider we had basically 1 passing target most of the year.

Consider the coach, the QB, and others have said the offense was limited because some of the moving parts couldn't learn it reliably enough to run it. You think it was because of one of the most cerebral and intelligent QB's to ever play the game. I happen to disagree.

Consider that guys not being where they're supposed to will result in holding the ball. Consider we had a lot of 2nd and 3rd and pretty longs that will push an offense to shotgun and "holding" the ball.

If you chose not to see it, well...
 

gbgary

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Or consider the fact this isn't Shanahan with a robo QB, there is so much more available with THIS QB than THAT QB.

Consider this is a first year HC who's smart to use his QB to his strengths but has a steep learning curve in being THE coach and putting it all together.

Consider we don't have the TE of a "Shanahan" offense do we?

Consider we had basically 1 passing target most of the year.

Consider the coach, the QB, and others have said the offense was limited because some of the moving parts couldn't learn it reliably enough to run it. You think it was because of one of the most cerebral and intelligent QB's to ever play the game. I happen to disagree.

Consider that guys not being where they're supposed to will result in holding the ball. Consider we had a lot of 2nd and 3rd and pretty longs that will push an offense to shotgun and "holding" the ball.

If you chose not to see it, well...
these points should be directed to wimm as more evidence that they didn't run the offense MLF really wants to run.
 

Do7

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these points should be directed to wimm as more evidence that they didn't run the offense MLF really wants to run.
Gary I feel at this point you're doing this just for the sake of not being wrong. There's nothing wrong with that dude. I don't think anyone is going to hold it against you.
 

rmontro

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From what I've heard, MLF and Rodgers came to a "compromise" of sorts, between running MLF's offense as designed, and adding in other plays that Rodgers liked or thought would be beneficial. I don't see that as a bad thing, however. It makes sense to tailor a system to the players, especially when you have a talent like Rodgers.

Capers (and McCarthy too) were both criticized for not wanting to adjust their schemes to the talent they had available.
 
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they ran it some of the time. all you have to do to know they didn't run the complete shanahan (MLF) O is open your eyes and ears. the formations, pace, timing, wasn't there a lot of the time. the mccarthy spread O was featured a lot of the time. there was too much shotgun, too much holding the ball...especially the first three quarters of the season. listen to their own words in the pressers. if you choose not to see/hear it, well...

It's absolutely naive to believe that MLF wants to run the exact same offense as Shanahan and it would be completely nuts to not tailor the scheme to the strengths of the players on the roster, especially when having a future HOF quarterback.

these points should be directed to wimm as more evidence that they didn't run the offense MLF really wants to run.

WTF??? Mondio listed several reasons as to why the Packers offense struggled and you truly believe he supported your point of view that Rodgers is the only one to blame??? :rolleyes:
 

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