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The Aaron Rodgers performance thread

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by XPack, Dec 7, 2018.

What's our main problem?

  1. Aaron Rodgers decline in form

    28.2%
  2. Lack of support in offense to AR

    57.6%
  3. Defense needs to improve

    14.1%
  1. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Peerless Beer, Lacrosse WI

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    There’s probably not one Poppa but I have 33M reasons why GB needs to get there.
    The 2019-2024 GB Packers had better aspire to get to that level or #12 will live out his early retirement in a wheelchair.

    In the meantime and against stellar Defenses I would’ve preferred to see less empty backfields when operating with a banged up O line and more max protection. 2 TEs and our best blocking RB (Jamaal). Rodgers was getting mauled out there. Ultimately the line pinches and 1 or the other TE go free and we check down and take what they give us. We did have some success with the TEs Sunday actually and I’m surprised it took 15 weeks to figure out that we need to rely on experience rather than experiments.

    We all know at least 1-2 O lineman will go down during the course of a season so the personnel dept. needs to stop pretending like we only need 5 starters and plan for 7. Maybe underestimating here at 7 and I’m being entirely serious here. We’re asking for it if we stay on this program cause Mack ain’t goin’ away.
    As far as Spriggs? He’s a #7 rotation type aspiring to be a #5 IMO. What made the 1990s Bulls great was being able to bring out guys like Kerr from the bench and slay 3 pointers. The concept of a championship team is to carry depth with marginal dropoff (or for #6 no dropoff) Steve Kerr and his Warriors get that concept loud n clear. Just something I’ve noticed, GB has all but ignored this concept and We continually fall short because we shoot for the front of the rim instead of the back of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  2. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    Other then signing a couple washed up TE's and filling the ranks with late round picks and UDFA's we haven't done anything to replenish the offense in quite some time and its failed us.

    Rodgers obviously didn't have his best year but its fascinating to me people can't see the correlation between not feeding the offense enough premium young talent and being mediocre. You throw in the attrition of guys getting older and some leaving and it's no wonder this offense is a dud for the most part. The talent just isn't there.

    So now McCarthy is gone and people are left pointing the finger at Rodgers. Maybe if we didnt spend 7 1-2nd round picks in the last four years on a joke secondary we could actually have a chance on offense to get upgrades where needed.

    1st round - Clinton Dix, Demarious Randall, Kevin King, Jaire Alexander

    2nd round- Quinten Rollins Josh Jones, Josh Jackson.

    My God it's ridiculous and we still had no name guys back there against the Bears. Quit putting the damn game in the hands of db's and give your best asset the tools and pieces to win.

    What's beyond crazy is there will be people here pounding the table to draft even more safeties and corners with our top picks this year. "INSANITY"
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  3. Packer Fan in SD

    Packer Fan in SD Cheesehead

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    Don’t throw the ball in the dirt and don’t overthrow the receiver and you get catches. Hit the open guy and you get yards. Not hard to see what is wrong from that standpoint. Rodgers is either/both hurt and under pressure from the contract.
     
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  4. swhitset

    swhitset Cheesehead

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    kevin king was a second rounder
     
  5. pacmaniac

    pacmaniac Cheesehead

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  6. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    If what you're saying is that, due to the injuries, he's been less than his usual self, then I agree with that assessment. But I do not believe that, if he's healthy, that we're going to be getting any diminishing returns.

    The injury concern is legitimate. There's no question about it.
     
  7. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    I'm not sure how many times I have to say this. Aaron Rodgers has not played up to his all time great capability this season. There's absolutely no question about it. He's a major factor in what has gone wrong with the Packers. There's absolutely no question about it. He HAS to play better or the Packers simply will not have a chance. Everyone knows that.

    All I'm saying is that his "below his normal standard" play isn't due to diminishing talent.
     
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  8. elcid

    elcid Cheesehead

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    I understand your point. It is true that we have been filling our secondary with high picks, and we havent seen any long term result of them yet. But from the first rounders you mentioned, I have to say that these picks were all rock solid (with the 2nd rounder King being solid while on the field, the little time he has been) . The second rounders have been pretty disappointing thus far. Unfortunately the problem has not been missing on the picks but retaining this premium secondary talent, with Hayward and Hyde leaving in FA and Randall and HHCD being dealt away.

    For this reason, I completely agree that its time to draft offense heavy in May. Im confident we can find adequate S help on the FA market and in the later rounds of the draft. If Breeland is back, Im confident in Alexander Breeland King Jackson Williams at CB going forward. However, I'd still like to see us use our top pick on a premiere edge rusher.

    Our pass rush would be even more abysmal than it has been this year with the under contract players going into next season, and supposedly it's a defense heavy draft. With a probably even higher pick than last year, I would not like to see it used to overdraft an offensive player, when there is better EDGE talent on the board. I'd love Josh Allen with our first and Marquise Brown or a premier OT with our second first rounder.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  9. Curly Calhoun

    Curly Calhoun Cheesehead

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    Aaron used to be able to cover up for Green Bay's roster deficiencies with his once-in-a-generation-quarterback abilities - That appears to no longer be the case.

    Whether that is due to injuries, age, or both is up for speculation.

    He is still, IMHO, a good deal better than most starting quarterbacks around the NFL. In order for him to be more successful, I believe the Packers have to do a better job of upgrading the talent around him.

    Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl when he was clearly past his prime - It can be done.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  10. Un4GivN

    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    Have you been watching this season at all?

    It is not that Rodgers "isn't having his best year". He is downright bad. He ranks 17th between Flacco and Dalton in QBR. Behind the likes of Jameis Winston, Kirk Cousins, Carson Wentz and more. As the #1 paid qb and consensus GOAT, OMG WORLD BEATER. He ranked 27th the last I checked (December 3rd) in off-target passing. That takes out his throw-aways / drops.

    SI did an article on him a couple weeks back as well and a quote from it is. "What’s most befuddling: Right when you start to think Rodgers will forever read the field with the choppiness of a rookie, he starts slinging the ball with perfectly disciplined timing and rhythm." SI article here. Then proceeds to overthrow Cobb by 7 yards and I hear Larry McCarren say there is no excuse for missing that throw. That is about as bad of a throw as I have ever seen from Aaron.

    Packers are averaging 5.0 yards per attempt running. That is 3rd in the league. The Packers also allow Rodgers the 5th longest time to throw per attempt. I did a post a while back on this and but Aaron average 2.95 seconds to throw. Big Ben is at 2.55 Rivers 2.64, Luck 2.63, Brady, 2.61. Extrapolate that out and Big Ben could throw 84 additional passes if he had the time Rodgers does. Nearly two full games of passes.

    So the offensive line isn't the problem, they are run and pass blocking better than all but about 3 teams. Adams is a top 5 receiver in the league, Jimmy Graham is a top 10 TE... So where do we lack talent exactly? WR2 and WR3? The answer is quarterback, and coaching. I think someone needs to bring Rodgers back to earth, take control back over and actually "coach" him into being a better player and hold him accountable for his play.

    The Packers don't lack talent on offense, they are one of the most talented offenses in the league even with the lack of draft picks going that direction. They could use another complementary receiver, and some depth in the O-line but Rodgers, Adams, Aaron Jones, and Jimmy Graham should offer the Packers enough talent to win games.
     
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  11. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I think the time to throw is a bit skewed myself. Lots of those plays, the time is spent with Rodgers moving to a spot to throw from because the Pocket was never formed, or was collapsed quickly. Now i'm not absolving him from his poor play this season, I"ve been as critical as any, but the time to throw I think is just fun with numbers. I watch the games too, and there are clearly times he holds it too long, but there are so many others where he drops back and has to move NOW to get to a place he can throw from because the pressure is already there. I don't consider the time it takes to evade a rush and get to a new spot to throw from a positive trait in pass protection.
     
  12. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    I've posted several times that Rodgers has his own part in this. My main concern with Rodgers at this point isn't his abilities but staying healthy moving forward.

    Jimmie Graham? Really? For the most part he is washed up(He can't stretch the field) and your kidding yourself if you think our offensive weaponary sparks any fear in our opponents like it used too. It's well known around the league that the Packers offense in a whole is just blah.

    The bottom line is that if we don't upgrade the offense significantly we will continue to lose. Getting a better OC is just part of it.

    With that said this can be fun again if the Packers make the right moves appropriately.
     
  13. Northwoods

    Northwoods Cheesehead

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    One more season of Aaron Rodgers not living up to his hype. One more season of Aaron Rodgers acting as though HE owns the Packers. Perhaps after next season, where the Packers end up once again as a bottom feeder team, the Packers will see that they overpaid an aging qb. On the up side, I don’t think dumping Rodgers will be as painful to the fan base as it was when Favre had to be let go.
     
  14. Curly Calhoun

    Curly Calhoun Cheesehead

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    The Packers have two players on offensive that can be described as game-changing playmakers: Davante Adams and Aaron Jones. Even at that, Adams (the Packers best weapon by far) is not a burner, and Jones is, for whatever reason, a part-time player.

    Jimmy Graham and Randall Cobb appear to be past their prime. They can still make contributions, but they're not keeping D-Coordinators up at night.

    Jamaal Williams, Green Bay's other part-time running back, is more of a plodder than a break-away threat.

    Of the rookie wide receivers, MVS has made the most progress thus far, but it's obvious he's still a rookie. It also seems unlikely he'll ever be a dominant offensive threat in the NFL, and more likely just another contributor.

    That's just not a scary offense.

    I'm not saying Aaron Rodgers hasn't been part of the problem - He has.

    Let's not delude ourselves, however, into thinking he's got a lot to work with. This team needs another playmaker or two on offense, IMHO. They also need the quarterback to play better.
     
  15. Un4GivN

    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    Adams has 1315 yards (4th) and 12 TD (2nd)
    Aaron Jones is at 5.5 ypc average (1st) and over 728 yards in 11 games and only 3 game of 15 carries. Only reason he isn't a top 10 back in yardage is number of carries. Zeke has 286 carries... Jones has 133.
    The offensive line ranks top 10 on PFF focus, top 5 by football outsiders... Allow Rogers 5th most time to throw and 1st in ypc.


    Packers Offense:
    Top 5 wide receiver
    Top 10 running back
    Top 10 offensive line.
    Top 15 TE - Even if you are really biased... Graham is 10th in receptions, 7th in yards, 7th in longest reception, 12th in yards per game. So we will say top 15 Te to make you happy.

    Rodgers:
    28th in completion percentage
    27th in off target passes
    19th in yards per attempt
    13th in touchdowns
    17th in Total QBR
    14th in NFL QBR
    5th most sacks... Behind top 10 offensive line. Hmmm wonder who is to blame here.
    One of the most startling stats I have seen all year Rodgers ranks 22nd on third down passing efficiency 39.5% (47 out of 119). That is behind Brock Osweiler, Nick Mullens, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Marcus Mariota, Derek Carr... And .5 percentage points ahead of benched Blake Bortles.

    The only stats Rodgers ranks in top 10 are Attempts (5th) Yards (6th) and Interception rate (1st).

    Damn you are right this team has no talent on offense... Rodgers is just a victim of a no talent.

    Let's see if we can get Julio on the other side from Adams, Landry in the slot, and, Kelce at TE and our whole offense can be top 10!!! Then maybe, just maybe... Aaron can preform. Makes sense to me! Let's do it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  16. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I think they're smart to be cautious with Jones. 15-20 touches is probably plenty for him. He's not a big guy and he was hurt last year, and he may not last this season either even on a reduced load.
     
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  17. Un4GivN

    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    Every offense not nicknamed the Greatest Show on Turf needs more playmakers. There is flaws in every offense in the league.

    My point is, lack of talent is not a pass for Rodgers, he's been one of the worst parts of a disappointing offense. Not the whole reason for failure but a HUGE factor.
     
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  18. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    Stats are great but they don't tell the whole story. It starts with Rodgers getting injured in the 1st game of the season and then continues on with an outdated MM offense.

    Yes, I do watch the games and even went to a few and the eye test tells you this offensive line overall has taken a step backwards. They plugged it with Jahari Evan's last year as a stop gap and currently dont have the continuity upfront that they have had in the past. Overall they are mediocre in pass pro. Other then Bac and Lindsley and maybe Taylor at times there is not much to be desired. Bulaga can't stay healthy.

    Aaron Jones is a nice complimentary weapon but it's a pipe dream to think he is a bell cow type 20 plus carry back. Usually when Packers tried to impose there will in running game it got stonewalled. What we have is far from a smash mouth type running game.

    Other then Devante there is no perimeter weapon that puts fear in anyone. We need guys that can win one on one and we certainly dont have enough.
     
  19. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    I apologise if that came over aggressively.
     
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  20. Un4GivN

    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    So is it the receivers fault he is the 27th in off-target passing? If they ran faster they would catch up to the ball 7 yards over their heads? Catch the balls thrown into the dirt on third and fourth down? Or are you saying if they were wide open all the time that Aaron would be able to get them the ball?

    Doesn't it kind of defeat the purpose of being the best ever if you need All-Pro's everywhere in your skill positions to be great? The Packers aren't the most talented offense in the world, but they aren't bottom 10 either. Plus they are led by supposedly best quarterback ever, and he isn't holding up his end of the deal. That's my point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  21. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    This poll needs to allow for multiple selections. Yes, Rodgers can be the problem; is part of the issue in fact. Thompson is probably the largest reason for this team's issues (his personnel choices the last few years have been downright terrible). McCarthy and injuries are another reason and then I'd put Rodgers somewhere after those.
     
  22. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    Once again I haven't posted anything saying Rodgers has been playing like his normal self and actually warned that he might not during offseason and the injury along with not enough overall talent on offense made that come to reality. Plus we can add the head coach getting fired.

    With that said I still saw Rodgers make enough great throws to not just throw the towel in on him. Like the one to Cobb for a TD against the Falcons a couple weeks ago. Is he ever going to play consistently like the "Great Aaron Rodgers" that people called the "Goat"? I don't know for sure but he certainly won't with the current cast of characters we have on offense alone. The league has changed.

    We need to get rid of this zone blocking scheme upfront but we can't right now because our current group would get out-leveraged and there *** kicked up front completely without it. We need some "road graders" and a competent RT that can stay healthy. We also need a TE that can stretch the seam and slot reciever that the defense needs to know where he is at all times. We could use another RB too.

    Get those things with a fresh OC and I believe we can start having fun again.
     
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  23. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    You have to freaking be kidding me.

    Another season of Aaron Rodgers not living up to the hype? Really? The only season you can make the argument that Rodgers didn't live up to the hype is 2015, where there were a million factors that contributed to his below standard play, some of which include the injury to Jordy, a fat Eddie Lacy, Richard friggin' Rodgers as your #1 tight end, receivers that couldn't separate, receivers that routinely dropped passes, two different play callers after McCarthy took that responsibility from Clements after giving it to him in the beginning. And all he did was still throw 31 TDs to 8 INTs. Yes, it was a down year for him and he played his part in it, but lets not act as if there weren't reasons that attributed to his below standard play. And oh by the way he got a Packers team with a washed up James Jones, two receivers that caught a total of 11 balls from Rodgers all year long (Janis, Abbrederis), the "elite" Richard Rodgers, and two joke-worthy running backs in a fat Lacy and a flailing James Starks --- No Jordy, no Davante, no Cobb after the 1st quarter to overtime against a 13-3 Arizona Cardinals team, and never got the football in overtime. This was after winning a playoff game in the wild card round...

    THAT is Rodgers' worst year of his career up until 2018.

    Please give me another season besides 2015 and 2018 where you could make the argument that Aaron Rodgers didn't live up to the hype.

    I'll just go since the Packers won the Super Bowl in 2010.....

    2011 - 122.5 passer rating, 45 TDs to 6 INTs, 68.3% completions, 4,643 yards (MVP)
    2012 - 108.0 passer rating, 39 TDs to 8 INTs, 67.2% completions, 4,295 yards
    2013 - 104.9 passer rating, 17 TDs to 6 INTs, 66.6% completions, 2,536 yards (9 games)
    2014 - 112.2 passer rating, 38 TDs to 5 INTs, 65.6% completions, 4,381 yards (MVP)
    2015 - already been discussed
    2016 - 104.2 passer rating, 40 TDs to 7 INTs, 65.7% completions, 4,428 yards
    2017 - 97.2 passer rating, 16 TDs to 6 INTs, 64.7% completions, 1,675 yards (7 games)

    As a side note, Rodgers' passer rating was north of 100 in 2017 before being thrown into a game against a stout Carolina Panthers defense on the road in his first game back from the collarbone injury.

    I'm going to concede that 2018 hasn't been a great year at all by his standards.

    But 2015 and 2018 is all you've got. Before you bring me playoff games that he's lost, the man has better playoff numbers across the board than Tom Brady, no matter which metric you decide to use. Every single individual statistic, Rodgers has Brady bested.

    I get that some are disappointed in Rodgers right now, but my goodness this notion that he's routinely disappointed the Packers that I'm reading from multiple people on this forum is so ill-informed and irresponsibly false.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  24. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    Absolutely not. :)
     
  25. Un4GivN

    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    We are going to just have to agree to disagree my friend.

    Never did I say release him... I just call it how I see it, and Rodgers is the single biggest reason that Rodgers isn't succeeding. If he fixes that the Packers will be in much better position to win.
     

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