Ted Thompson:year 2

[net]

The New England game(and the Bears game) are indicators of where the Packers need to be to be at the upper echelon of the league.

I have my own thoughts about the state of the Packers, but I'm curious to see what the Packer faithful think about the overall(key word) state of the team.

The question to ponder: Is the team heading forward....or is it heading to a state last seen in the 70's and 80's...i.e., perpetual rebuilding?

Your thoughts.

 

[umair]

i think we are moving foward. we lost to a better team and a expirecced team. we are heading in the right direction and this young team will have a bright future.

 

[carol k]

I think the Packers need a new gm and a new head coach. I have never liked either one from the start--I know I am in the minority--but I think both of them have made many mistakes. I didn't like the fact that TT let some of our good players go, and as far as I am concerned, his picks in the draft weren't much better. JMHO

 

[Buckeyepackfan]

I think it is safe to say that with Brett under center, we can compete with the lower echiland of the NFL, and surprise some of the middle of the road teams, but no-way are we going to hang with any of the big boys.

I Haven't agreed with the quick change over that has happened, but TT was given a job to do and is doing it his way.

There are rumors flying about that A-rod and Brett may not be able to go Monday night, I hope they are not true, but if so we will drop to the bottom of the list real fast.

Anyone know Jeff George's phone #???? :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Needed to try and add a little humor at this point.

 

[Pack93z]

I said it weeks ago, with they approach that TT has taken we have little to no Veteran depth on this team and we are paying for it dearly... add to the fact that our secondary coaching is sub par and suspect... 2nd time around for Schott and well same results...

My fear is that TT will turn the roster over again and again with little chance for chemistry to form... benchmark game here and it showed where the Pack really is and it not pretty is it....

I think MM has shown something over the last couple of weeks... TT what has he done to help us... his bargin FA havent done anything... Being able to judge talent (which I think for rookies he is very good at) is one thing.. being able to build and manage a team... I think another...

 

[Packnic]

i think we are moving foward. we lost to a better team and a expirecced team. we are heading in the right direction and this young team will have a bright future.

your exactly right. We lost to a better team. probally the best team in football the last 6 years. They have one of the best coaches in football, (even though i cant stand the sloppy dishevled bastard... i mean really can someone buy that fat ********* a shirt and tie. ) they were also coming off two losses. Im under the impression that no one was stopping that team ... especially a young, inexperienced team like the packers.


its so fun in this forum after a loss. people just get more and more ignorant each loss...

 

[digsthepack]

The funny thing is that Favre had possibly the worst game of his career and it is TT taking ths hits.

Wahle looks slightly above average in Carolina; Sharper was not worth the monet as his play clearly shows; Rivera is on his final leg.

We are a young team that will blossom quickly when the youngsters build experience. No problem with the FA acquisitions or drafts to this point. I DO have a major beef with the secondary coaching and my esteem for MM will diminish significantly if Schottenheimer is not gone after this season. Clearly his lessons are not sinking in...especially where the safeties are concerned.

Bottom line, the Packers are a team that is chock full O' very young talent that will be something to deal with in the next several years as that talent gains experience and decent drafts/FA moves push the roster.

 

[longtimefan]

The funny thing is that Favre had possibly the worst game of his career and it is TT taking ths hits.

Wahle looks slightly above average in Carolina; Sharper was not worth the monet as his play clearly shows; Rivera is on his final leg.

We are a young team that will blossom quickly when the youngsters build experience. No problem with the FA acquisitions or drafts to this point. I DO have a major beef with the secondary coaching and my esteem for MM will diminish significantly if Schottenheimer is not gone after this season. Clearly his lessons are not sinking in...especially where the safeties are concerned.

Bottom line, the Packers are a team that is chock full O' very young talent that will be something to deal with in the next several years as that talent gains experience and decent drafts/FA moves push the roster.

Excellent post, my thoughts are the same..

Just like everyone else, I have my own therory on why the team went downhill so fast and IMO a new coach was needed..

While I did not really agree with Rhodes being fired after one season I also was not behind the doors to see what was going on, I think he should have had another year at least..

MM should be given at least another year as well..

Just remember it took Bill B 3 years to get the Browns back to the playoffs


Maybe TT has done some sneaky things, but I do not for a fact he has done them..

But for the reasons I THINK the team went downhill so fast and what Ted had to do, I think he is doing somewhere around average or slightly above average job..

 

[gator]

Interesting that you're ready to blame Favre's "worst game of the year" and let it go at that..... while Brett surely wasn't at his best--the questions always are--did he throw some of those balls away to avoid the TO's?? did he throw them into spots where better receivers might have made an outstanding play and caught them--did he throw bad passes because there was NO ONE OPEN??? because there is ONE (maybe one and a rookie) PROFESSIONAL-GRADE receiver on this team?? WHY is that??

Why couldn't the O-line open any sort of holes for the backs?? Why is the O-line is a position of having to start three rookies and one second-year guy because of ONE injury??Why has the TE position in GB become primarily a blocking position?? WHy is the secondary made up of over-the hillers and one career backup and a young guy with some talent, but NO ROLE MODELS?? A secondary that , if they could cover ANYONE who is a real WR-- would make a good DL and very-good LB's look MUCH better.Why is it that eleven weeks into the season--the coaches are still talking about "miscommunication" among that secondary-and everyone who watched the game SAW the defense not having a CLUE where to line up-and why is the secondary coach a reject-retread--who seems to be absolutely safe in his position--and just WHY is the HC allowing these sorts of situations to exist and not doing anything to resolve them???

There is FAAAR more wrong with this team that Brett having a bad day--it starts at the top and trickles downhill.....it's the result of bad player management-very bad coaching-and an overall lack of first-rate talent.

When a team like this goes up against a top-tier team--what would anyone expect?? Look at the teams GB has beaten this year--even the one team who had won more than ONE game, the vikings are in their annual spiral into obscurity -so it's not like they are anything special.....of course the Packers will get spanked when up aainst real talent--I find it sad that this team has crashed to this level in only one and a half seasons--but I guess i am in the minority-but I'd like to see tt and mm shown the door--and please don't mention jim Bates as a replacement--IF this team is going to suck through a period of rebuilding--at least let's get some people who can build winning teams and programs--not the guy who had toleave before Seattle could make any progress into the post-season and the OC for the 'Niners, who in case you haven't noticed have a better record than the packers now that MM has left.....

 

[longtimefan]

Gator...

A lot of times yesterday when the opportunity was there Brett for what ever reason could not get the ball in the right spot..

did you see the balls in the dirt, the balls way over the heads, or the balls to far off to the side and going out of bounds..Those things HAD NOTHING to do with the o-line , or the wr, or the rb, it was all on Brett..

IMO his ankle or groin was bothering him to the point it was affecting his passing...


And about the Niners having a better record cuz MM is gone..

I can twist it around ya know..

N.O has done nothing like they did when MM was the O.C there..In fact they got worse up until this year..

2000 to 2004 always at 500 or above and broke all kinds of team records..

LAst year ( his 1st year gone ) they went 3-13 and got beat BAD by the Pack..

 

[CaliforniaCheez]

The Packers made the playoffs 4 years in a row and 10 of 12 years before Ted Thompson became GM. Since he became GM the Packers are 8-18.

Those are just statistics and no opinion on them is offered.

Also consider the last three coaches who did not attain a winning record were fired. Lindy Infante, Ray Rhoads, Mike Sherman.

Last year the games were somewhat entertaining and close with a notable exception. Unlike last year, this season the majority of the players were acquired by the current GM.
I really dislike hearing the fans at Lambeau booing.

 

[longtimefan]

I dont see the team heading BACKWARD to the likes of the 70's and 80's..

 

[Chamuko]

I dont see the team heading BACKWARD to the likes of the 70's and 80's..

Give MM one more year ad we will be there...

Really maybe TT is doing a fair job, but MM seems to be not HC material at all, he always has tat deer in the headlights look and last game he was one step from waving a white flag.

By the way EVEN in the 70´s or 80´s we never got 2 sutdown losses at Lambeau, we have them now, Coach MM making history.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[digsthepack]

Ummm...Gator.....3 of the 5 o-linemen are the young players gaining experience as they go that I referred to. To answer the question, they got handled yesterday.

Kinda the hallmark of a young team.....erratic play with hints of the potential tempering abject negativsm.

And if you don't agree that Favre's very off day had significant impact on the day, well, I guess you missed the guy hitting the dirt and missing wide open WRs. Hit ankles and groin are clearly affecting him as he was unable to set up and deliver as usual.

 

[longtimefan]

my therory is that Sherman inherited a team with very good depth, and very good starters..He was a good coach but a horrible gm..

Everyone here semeed to want Tt to spend spend spend..Well didnt Shermnan do that? and what happened ? He tried to aquire F.A to help them get over the hump and he didnt not get enuff back up players from the drafts..

Once the players that he inherited started to lose their step or move on, the team had no real replacements...

They started to lose home games, 1st and out of the playoffs and losing at home in the playoffs..

The reason I think the Pack were winning the divisions is a few reasons...

They were just an above average team in a VERY bad division...just look at Minny, Chic and Detorit records when Sherman was H.C...Not to mention 2 freaky senerioes to HELP them win the division..

I am not happy with the play the last 2 years but I also firmly believe that this is where the team was headed no matter what

 

[gator]

I really think you're missing the point--yes indeed brett's day had an impact--but it wan't the only thing that went wrong-and as Rogers showed--and since he's apparently seriously injured--Brett's a sgood as we've got right now. However-watch QB's--they throw balls guy slide for(to prevent big hits) favre has taken so much crap for his INT's over the years--if the receiver isn't open--I'd throw it away too....how many of those misses were to comletely open receivers???

My point is that the secondary sucks--plain and simple--Harris got old all at once-Woodson has been FAR over-rated for a long time and Maunel was/is/has been a mistake.

My point is that it's criminal in today's NFL to not have quality backups for important positions like those in the OL--or it's completely short-sighted....
I don't mind erratic play--BUT when they get completely overmatched-it would be nice to think there might be an option. It would be nice to think that somehow, somewhere a player is out of work who could be better than a rookie....and actually play for a lot less--of course then we couldn't have sen Thompson extend (at a pretty high rate) a young center who not only misses the snap count an unacceptable amount of time--pass blocks pretty poorly (how many times does Favre get hit from right up the middle), but has an arm that was numb for most of last season....brilliant...

and as far as twisting--let's not even go there--I could pull Sherman's record and throw that at you...McCarthy is over his head-- most of his assistants are as well...and of course....Thompson is a buffooon....

I love this team--and I think there is some potential herre--but the whle system is what's wroong--it's not JUST that Favre had a bad day--it's not JUST that the O-line looked like a bunch of little old ladies, it's just that the term 'running' backs would have been a complete misnomer

In a year and a half-the Packers have gone from a consistent playoff-level team--to one who gets mangled by anyone with a winning record....just where exactly does the accountability for that lie?? With the players?? somewhat...with the coaches...maybe a little more...with the guy overseeing the whole process??????

 

[longtimefan]

Gator let me get this right..

In N.O. MM and his offense broke all kinds of records and he was only there for 4 years..

He was in Frisco for one year and that is the only thing you are basing him on..At least that is what it is looking like to me..

If you didnt like the 1st and goal slant vs Buffalo, know what?

Holmgren called a short pass over the middle yesterday with under 20 secs left in the game and Seattle having no time outs..

How foolish is that call? He should be FIRED too.

 

[Zero2Cool]

It was a bad game. It HAPPENS! Let's move on to the next game and cheer our team!

 

[Chamuko]

Gator let me get this right..

In N.O. MM and his offense broke all kinds of records and he was only there for 4 years..

He was in Frisco for one year and that is the only thing you are basing him on..At least that is what it is looking like to me..

If you didnt like the 1st and goal slant vs Buffalo, know what?

Holmgren called a short pass over the middle yesterday with under 20 secs left in the game and Seattle having no time outs..

How foolish is that call? He should be FIRED too.

He broke a record here already, first time ever to have two shut down games in Lambeau... Maybe he could still get the 3rd vs Minny !!!!

 

[warhawk]

I really think you're missing the point--yes indeed brett's day had an impact--but it wan't the only thing that went wrong-and as Rogers showed--and since he's apparently seriously injured--Brett's a sgood as we've got right now. However-watch QB's--they throw balls guy slide for(to prevent big hits) favre has taken so much crap for his INT's over the years--if the receiver isn't open--I'd throw it away too....how many of those misses were to comletely open receivers???

My point is that the secondary sucks--plain and simple--Harris got old all at once-Woodson has been FAR over-rated for a long time and Maunel was/is/has been a mistake.

My point is that it's criminal in today's NFL to not have quality backups for important positions like those in the OL--or it's completely short-sighted....
I don't mind erratic play--BUT when they get completely overmatched-it would be nice to think there might be an option. It would be nice to think that somehow, somewhere a player is out of work who could be better than a rookie....and actually play for a lot less--of course then we couldn't have sen Thompson extend (at a pretty high rate) a young center who not only misses the snap count an unacceptable amount of time--pass blocks pretty poorly (how many times does Favre get hit from right up the middle), but has an arm that was numb for most of last season....brilliant...

and as far as twisting--let's not even go there--I could pull Sherman's record and throw that at you...McCarthy is over his head-- most of his assistants are as well...and of course....Thompson is a buffooon....

I love this team--and I think there is some potential herre--but the whle system is what's wroong--it's not JUST that Favre had a bad day--it's not JUST that the O-line looked like a bunch of little old ladies, it's just that the term 'running' backs would have been a complete misnomer

In a year and a half-the Packers have gone from a consistent playoff-level team--to one who gets mangled by anyone with a winning record....just where exactly does the accountability for that lie?? With the players?? somewhat...with the coaches...maybe a little more...with the guy overseeing the whole process??????

We went from a team that was 12-4 in '03 to 10-6 not beating a single team with a winning record in '04. The slide you reference was well on it's way before '05. Our defense was already sucking wind.

I've pointed out a hundred times that it was Shermans team that went 4-12 last year not TT's. He didn't have the cash to make any big moves and 90% of the starters were Sherman's guys from years past.

Talk about not having quality backups in the O-line. What exactly was Sherman thinking going into '05 before he got canned about this? What was his plan with no money and no backups regarding the situation at guard?

TT invested in the O-line for the first time since 2000. Since then the only guy was Wells and he was in line for nothing until we went to the Zone system which he fits perfectly. Now you expect him to have starters and backups for all the positions you mention as well.

When TT got here we had one CB, one LB, one Safety, a weak "D" line, and not a backup worth a crap at ANY position. You find a position we had quality backups going into '05. Please, name one. Nall at QB. O.K. Great.

It took 4 years to wind up with 0 depth on this team. It might take a little longer than a year and half to build it back. Live with it.

But PLEASE stop this TT inherited a playoff caliber team crap. We played 13 teams with a losing record in '04 and beat 0 teams with a winning record that year.

We were all but handed a playoff spot by virtue of the schedule. And then got our clocks cleaned. A team a far cry away from the one that should have beat Philly to go to the SB.

One last thing. Your assessment of Wells is totally off. That guy has been more than great this year. Pass blocks poorly? What have you been eating? It was not his guy that hit BF either by the way. I guess if your going to be off base about something you might as well be totally off base. You certainly are about that one.

 

[dxbfan]

my therory is that Sherman inherited a team with very good depth, and very good starters..He was a good coach but a horrible gm..

Everyone here semeed to want Tt to spend spend spend..Well didnt Shermnan do that? and what happened ? He tried to aquire F.A to help them get over the hump and he didnt not get enuff back up players from the drafts..

Once the players that he inherited started to lose their step or move on, the team had no real replacements...

They started to lose home games, 1st and out of the playoffs and losing at home in the playoffs..

The reason I think the Pack were winning the divisions is a few reasons...

They were just an above average team in a VERY bad division...just look at Minny, Chic and Detorit records when Sherman was H.C...Not to mention 2 freaky senerioes to HELP them win the division..

I am not happy with the play the last 2 years but I also firmly believe that this is where the team was headed no matter what

The real mistake I think was made by Harlan who let Sherman as GM go on for too long. As a result by the time he realised Sherman wasnt the right guy the team had lost/were on the verge of losing a lot of their talent. And the talent that had been drafted as replacements werent good enough.

With nothing substantial left to build around, TT's approach seems to be to rebuild through draft position by position, the O line being a good case in point.

I think there are three challenges with this, firstly with inordinate emphasis placed on the draft, success hinges heavily on your draft skills and the position you're drafting at. A few years of finishing at the bottom of the league and picking high is more rewarding than finishing with a winning season and picking later in the draft.

Secondly unless the draft yields solutions for all the holes you have (and it very rarely does) the rate at which holes appear exceeds the rate at which your plugging them leaving talent levels deteriorating faster than its improving.

Thirdly, the process cannot be achieved in the space of a season or two. Its going to mean a number of years in the wilderness before you're back in contention.

There is no doubt that this process in the long term will create a team that has a greater chance of sustaining success over a longer period of time than one built through perhaps more expedient means. As loyal Packer fans we shouldnt have a problem with that.

Except that we still have a year or two of Brett Favre. TT should have either had the guts to call a rebuild a rebuild and trade Favre. Or should have temporarily held off on the rebuild and instead built around Favre in the short term.

Instead TT has begun rebuilding with Favre around and that instead of presenting a solution has simply presented a new set of problems.

 

[thetombradyhater]

i think were getting better. The Pats and Bears are two of the top 5 or so teams in the league, and its obvious were not in their league.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Gator let me get this right..

In N.O. MM and his offense broke all kinds of records and he was only there for 4 years..

He was in Frisco for one year and that is the only thing you are basing him on..At least that is what it is looking like to me..

If you didnt like the 1st and goal slant vs Buffalo, know what?

Holmgren called a short pass over the middle yesterday with under 20 secs left in the game and Seattle having no time outs..

How foolish is that call? He should be FIRED too.

He broke a record here already, first time ever to have two shut down games in Lambeau... Maybe he could still get the 3rd vs Minny !!!!

Wouldn't be fair to mention the negative without the positive now would it?

How bout giving the Packers their first EVER win at Miami's stadium?

 

[4packgirl]

it's threads like these that make me happy i'm on the site. i've been a packer fan my entire life & for a chick, understand the entire game of football pretty darn well. i never got into drafting, scouting, what the GM did well or didn't do well but because of this site, i understand an entirely different side of the game. thanks guys!!

 

[Greg C.]

At this point, there's no way to be sure which direction the team is headed in, but I think they are getting better. Thompson and McCarthy deserve at least one more season after this one to prove themselves, and probably another one after that.

This is maybe not the best time to be discussing this subject, with this blowout fresh in our minds. We should remember that in the NFL, when a team gets off to a bad start there is often sort of a snowball effect, and things just get worse and worse for the team that has fallen behind. New England is clearly the better team with a better coach right now, but were it not for the weakness with our safeties, and Favre's strangely inaccurate day throwing the ball, who knows, this still could have been a close game. Losing 35-0 was a setback, but not the catastrophe that some people seem to think it was.