Tearing it Down

Dantés

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I am fully on board with watching the rest of this season play out. Maybe the Packers somehow rebound. However, I think the smart money would bet they don't. If that proves true, you've got a super expensive roster that clearly can't win a Super Bowl, which means it's time to tear down and start over. Here's what I hope would happen or what I think would be smart, with a goal in mind of being competitive again in 2025.

Trade/Retire:

-Aaron Rodgers:
Hopefully one of the by-products of a teardown is that Rodgers would just retire. It would result in crippling cap implications, most notably in 2023, but the idea would be to take your medicine and move on. If he doesn't want to be done, trade him.

-David Bakhtiari: It the effort to stay healthy proves too much, Bakh should just hang it up. Otherwise I would seek to deal him. Again-- terrible cap implications, but you're just taking your medicine.

Trade/Release:

-Kenny Clark:
I would guess that one could get a pretty decent return for a 27 yo of Clark's caliber on a reasonable base salary.

-Aaron Jones: Expectations would need to be tempered here because of age and position, but I would guess that the Packers could get something back for Jones.

-Preston Smith

-De'Vondre Campbell

-Rasul Douglas

Release:


-Darnell Savage: "That doesn't save any cap space!" you say. Yes, but it saves me having to watch Darnell Savage play football.

Allow to Walk:

-Adrian Amos
-Randall Cobb
-Dean Lowry
-Mason Crosby
-Allen Lazard
-Robert Tonyan
-Jarran Reed
-Marcedes Lewis
-Sammy Watkins
-Keisean Nixon
-Dallin Leavitt
-Rudy Ford
-Eric Wilson

Consider Resigning:

-Elgton Jenkins and/or Yosh Nijman:
Both players are young enough that, with OL longevity, one could reasonably assume they're still contributors when GB rebounds as a team. Plus OL play will be key during the rebuilding phase so that other players on offense (esp. QB) can be accurately assessed.

Sign From the Outside:

-Literally No One:
"What is a free agent?"

Conclusion: This would leave the Packers with a few building blocks, lots of draft capital, and crippling cap penalties. You retain Alexander and Gary as pieces for the future, while working on development for guys like Stokes, Walker, and Wyatt. On offense, you keep the OL mostly intact while the young WR's continue to grow. That should provide enough of an ecosystem that you could use 2023 to assess Love and either seek to build around him or move on from him in the future. In 2023, flood the roster with rookies, drafted and undrafted, and see who has the ability to stick during a season when you're taking the brunt of your cap medicine so that you have some flexibility moving forward.
 

Sanguine camper

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I would use the rest of this season to assess young talent. Josh and Zack Tom should start. Wyatt needs to get a bunch of snaps and give Slaton enough snaps to see if he can progress. While I think Watson is a bust because he's too fragile, Doubs and Toure can continue to see the ball enough to judge how they may fit into future plans. Are they going to be "possession" receivers or something more dynamic. I don't see this team winning more than 2 or 3 games so why not go all in on rebuilding right now? With a few more losses, it would make no sense to start Rodgers. It would be wise to start Love for 5 or 6 games to see if he can progress as well. If he stinks, the Packers will have a top 5 or 10 first round pick to potentially use on a qb. Otherwise, that high pick can go WR or RT. Make no mistake, the Packers have the cap nightmare to keep them I last place for the next 3-6 seasons. There is no valid reason to hesitate on rebuilding. I remember the Packets predicament after the John Hadl trade. They are in the same mess now. Tickets are going to be real easy to get!
 
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I would use the rest of this season to assess young talent.
This would be the best way to go for the future because it's obvious we're going into a rebuilding mode.

The scary question to me is who in the front office thought that we could win games with the present players?

The people involved with the Packers seem to be clueless on who to keep and who to trade.

Ex. Randy Cobb. It took Rodgers to convince the team we need him back.
And what's the true story on Davante Adams leaving town.
 
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Mondio

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They aren't going to toss in the towel now, they're still in it and until then you play like it.

calling Watson a bust already? You're harsh. Plenty of speed guys have tweaked a hamstring and taken some time to get back. Some are fine, some have periodic issues and you have no way of knowing what he is at this point. Last game he got hammered in the head, there was nothing soft about that hit.
 
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Dantés

Dantés

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I would use the rest of this season to assess young talent. Josh and Zack Tom should start. Wyatt needs to get a bunch of snaps and give Slaton enough snaps to see if he can progress. While I think Watson is a bust because he's too fragile, Doubs and Toure can continue to see the ball enough to judge how they may fit into future plans. Are they going to be "possession" receivers or something more dynamic. I don't see this team winning more than 2 or 3 games so why not go all in on rebuilding right now? With a few more losses, it would make no sense to start Rodgers. It would be wise to start Love for 5 or 6 games to see if he can progress as well. If he stinks, the Packers will have a top 5 or 10 first round pick to potentially use on a qb. Otherwise, that high pick can go WR or RT. Make no mistake, the Packers have the cap nightmare to keep them I last place for the next 3-6 seasons. There is no valid reason to hesitate on rebuilding. I remember the Packets predicament after the John Hadl trade. They are in the same mess now. Tickets are going to be real easy to get!

I would be fully on board with them playing the young guys more effective immediately, but I don't think we will see that in reality until they're mathematically out of contention.

Way, way too soon to call Watson a bust. Yeesh.

3-6 seasons is way too extreme. NFL turnarounds don't have to take years and years.
 

XPack

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I don't think we need that harsh a medicine and the "tear down" is always a overrated fan concept.

What I agree is that we need to move on from AR and Bakh.

Clark, Jones, Jaire and Gary should be retained at least till end of their contract or till end of 2023/24 at a minimum.
 
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Dantés

Dantés

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They aren't going to toss in the towel now, they're still in it and until then you play like it.

calling Watson a bust already? You're harsh. Plenty of speed guys have tweaked a hamstring and taken some time to get back. Some are fine, some have periodic issues and you have no way of knowing what he is at this point. Last game he got hammered in the head, there was nothing soft about that hit.

The only players that succeed in the NFL are the ones that are immune to concussions. Everyone knows this.
 

kevans74

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I would use the rest of this season to assess young talent. Josh and Zack Tom should start. Wyatt needs to get a bunch of snaps and give Slaton enough snaps to see if he can progress. While I think Watson is a bust because he's too fragile, Doubs and Toure can continue to see the ball enough to judge how they may fit into future plans. Are they going to be "possession" receivers or something more dynamic. I don't see this team winning more than 2 or 3 games so why not go all in on rebuilding right now? With a few more losses, it would make no sense to start Rodgers. It would be wise to start Love for 5 or 6 games to see if he can progress as well. If he stinks, the Packers will have a top 5 or 10 first round pick to potentially use on a qb. Otherwise, that high pick can go WR or RT. Make no mistake, the Packers have the cap nightmare to keep them I last place for the next 3-6 seasons. There is no valid reason to hesitate on rebuilding. I remember the Packets predicament after the John Hadl trade. They are in the same mess now. Tickets are going to be real easy to get!
What kind of drugs do you take....?
 

Schultz

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Aaron Jones is neither playing for the Pack next year or being traded under his current contract.
 
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Make no mistake, the Packers have the cap nightmare to keep them I last place for the next 3-6 seasons.
I’m nit picking on that because most of that looks fine.
By 2026 (3yrs) maximum and 3 years of cap hikes, we will be well into the good financially. Rodgers and Bak are off the books no matter what. If Rodgers gets traded? His contract gets peeled and we’re sitting cap pretty by 2025 (where our 2 largest on the payroll are gone.

It’s really going back 2-3 seasons tops (2026) depending on Rodgers decision to retire. If he is traded we can start adding significant players by 2024. Just the Cap increase alone is around $35-40M more by 2024
 
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Dantés

Dantés

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Aaron Jones is neither playing for the Pack next year or being traded under his current contract.

A team that acquired Jones would only have to pay his 8.1M base salary and could move on any time.

The top of the RB market is 12-16 AAV.

Why would his deal be untradeable?
 
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Dantés

Dantés

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I don't think we need that harsh a medicine and the "tear down" is always a overrated fan concept.

What I agree is that we need to move on from AR and Bakh.

Clark, Jones, Jaire and Gary should be retained at least till end of their contract or till end of 2023/24 at a minimum.

They need to be honest with themselves as to when they can realistically compete again.

If Clark is going for be 29 and close to the end of his deal before they are ready to push for the playoffs again, it’s foolish to keep him.
 

gopkrs

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They aren't going to toss in the towel now, they're still in it and until then you play like it.

calling Watson a bust already? You're harsh. Plenty of speed guys have tweaked a hamstring and taken some time to get back. Some are fine, some have periodic issues and you have no way of knowing what he is at this point. Last game he got hammered in the head, there was nothing soft about that hit.
Maybe they should be using Watson (when he's available) as a deep threat and and mid-range receiver instead of a bruising runner. Let him have a couple years in the NFL weight room first.
 

gopkrs

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A team that acquired Jones would only have to pay his 8.1M base salary and could move on any time.

The top of the RB market is 12-16 AAV.

Why would his deal be untradeable?
And why is it untenable to just re-work his contract the year of the big payday?
 

McKnowledge

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This current situation could've been easily avoided. Its all about decisions and choices.

Clearly, after mounting evidence, Gute is operating on a different timeline than the rest of us.

Gute must answer to others, specifically Murphy and simply Super Bowls are not the endgame.

It's about sustainable success and winning games is a component of it.

Gute's ineffectiveness in regards to Free Agency is glaring and ideally it would prove fireable.

However, I realize that he serves a deeper agenda.

Its not about winning championships, its about the brand.

Its business.

Cheap and frugal, but still a business.
 

Mondio

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Maybe they should be using Watson (when he's available) as a deep threat and and mid-range receiver instead of a bruising runner. Let him have a couple years in the NFL weight room first.
well, it was a middle screen for 12 yards. Fast WR's in this league run that play fairly frequently for big plays. Nothing really unusual about asking him to run that play. The hits just happen sometimes.
 

Sanguine camper

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What kind of drugs do you take....?
None, it a sober assessment allows one to see this team for what it is. It's It's mess considering Rodgers and Bahktiari's contracts. That's a sword over their head. The talent they have now can't win a Super Bowl so why prolong the obvious rebuilding process. The current front office may be in denial but that doesn't mean that a sober evaluation won't come to an obvious conclusion of those two facts. Can they continue to tweak the roster and keep Rodgers? Yes, but the cap hell they are in won't help.
 

Mondio

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This current situation could've been easily avoided. Its all about decisions and choices.

Clearly, after mounting evidence, Gute is operating on a different timeline than the rest of us.

Gute must answer to others, specifically Murphy and simply Super Bowls are not the endgame.

It's about sustainable success and winning games is a component of it.

Gute's ineffectiveness in regards to Free Agency is glaring and ideally it would prove fireable.

However, I realize that he serves a deeper agenda.

Its not about winning championships, its about the brand.

Its business.

Cheap and frugal, but still a business.
ineffectiveness in FA? I'm not sure you're really paying attention
 

Sanguine camper

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I know calling Watson a bust at this point is harsh. He's now had a knee injury, hamstring problem and concussion. Some guys are hurt a lot. He missed time in college as well. It doesn't bode well for his ability to avoid Injuries in the future. Watkins is the same type of fragile player. Spends too much time in the hot tub. That's why teams moved on from him. The other problem with injuries is the lack of practice so that when injury prone guys get back on the field, it often takes a couple of low productivity weeks to get back in form. Those weeks hurt the team almost as much as being out. Occasionally, injury prone guys have a big game and everybody gets excited only to see the pattern repeat again and again. Nobody is totally injury free, but I think a good strategy for a GM is to target guys that play at least 80% of their games.
 

tynimiller

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I don't think we need that harsh a medicine and the "tear down" is always a overrated fan concept.

What I agree is that we need to move on from AR and Bakh.

Clark, Jones, Jaire and Gary should be retained at least till end of their contract or till end of 2023/24 at a minimum.

In what world do you make yourself move on even if it is very cap costly to move on from Rodgers and Bakh yet hang on to all the others?? You're going to need to unpack that a lot more in order for it to not sound crazy to me.

Jones cap hit literally becomes $20M this next season....TWENTY.

IF you are rebuilding there is zero reason to make ANY player see the end of their contract you don't intend on resigning.
 

milani

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I am fully on board with watching the rest of this season play out. Maybe the Packers somehow rebound. However, I think the smart money would bet they don't. If that proves true, you've got a super expensive roster that clearly can't win a Super Bowl, which means it's time to tear down and start over. Here's what I hope would happen or what I think would be smart, with a goal in mind of being competitive again in 2025.

Trade/Retire:

-Aaron Rodgers:
Hopefully one of the by-products of a teardown is that Rodgers would just retire. It would result in crippling cap implications, most notably in 2023, but the idea would be to take your medicine and move on. If he doesn't want to be done, trade him.

-David Bakhtiari: It the effort to stay healthy proves too much, Bakh should just hang it up. Otherwise I would seek to deal him. Again-- terrible cap implications, but you're just taking your medicine.

Trade/Release:

-Kenny Clark:
I would guess that one could get a pretty decent return for a 27 yo of Clark's caliber on a reasonable base salary.

-Aaron Jones: Expectations would need to be tempered here because of age and position, but I would guess that the Packers could get something back for Jones.

-Preston Smith

-De'Vondre Campbell

-Rasul Douglas

Release:


-Darnell Savage: "That doesn't save any cap space!" you say. Yes, but it saves me having to watch Darnell Savage play football.

Allow to Walk:

-Adrian Amos
-Randall Cobb
-Dean Lowry
-Mason Crosby
-Allen Lazard
-Robert Tonyan
-Jarran Reed
-Marcedes Lewis
-Sammy Watkins
-Keisean Nixon
-Dallin Leavitt
-Rudy Ford
-Eric Wilson

Consider Resigning:

-Elgton Jenkins and/or Yosh Nijman:
Both players are young enough that, with OL longevity, one could reasonably assume they're still contributors when GB rebounds as a team. Plus OL play will be key during the rebuilding phase so that other players on offense (esp. QB) can be accurately assessed.

Sign From the Outside:

-Literally No One:
"What is a free agent?"

Conclusion: This would leave the Packers with a few building blocks, lots of draft capital, and crippling cap penalties. You retain Alexander and Gary as pieces for the future, while working on development for guys like Stokes, Walker, and Wyatt. On offense, you keep the OL mostly intact while the young WR's continue to grow. That should provide enough of an ecosystem that you could use 2023 to assess Love and either seek to build around him or move on from him in the future. In 2023, flood the roster with rookies, drafted and undrafted, and see who has the ability to stick during a season when you're taking the brunt of your cap medicine so that you have some flexibility moving forward.
I believe what you are saying. But it is hard to swallow. The translation is that we are between a rock and a hard place.
 

PackAttack12

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Seen a tweet earlier that was slightly dramatic, but at the same time really made me think....

"The Packers pay an aging Rodgers a boatload of money & they don't support him with the necessary pieces. The Packers pay Alexander a boatload of money & they don't put him on the opponents WR1. The Packers have the best RB duo in the NFL and don't use them. Make it make sense"
 
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Seen a tweet earlier that was slightly dramatic, but at the same time really made me think....

"The Packers pay an aging Rodgers a boatload of money & they don't support him with the necessary pieces. The Packers pay Alexander a boatload of money & they don't put him on the opponents WR1. The Packers have the best RB duo in the NFL and don't use them. Make it make sense"
Sure. Sometimes we can’t see the Forest through all these darn trees.
I’ve seen some of the smartest people completely outsmart themselves and if I’m seeing it?
it’s cause for worry! :roflmao:
 
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Dantés

Dantés

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Seen a tweet earlier that was slightly dramatic, but at the same time really made me think....

"The Packers pay an aging Rodgers a boatload of money & they don't support him with the necessary pieces. The Packers pay Alexander a boatload of money & they don't put him on the opponents WR1. The Packers have the best RB duo in the NFL and don't use them. Make it make sense"

Specifically on the Rodgers’ front, that’s the catch 22. If you pay an elite QB, it’s hard to also pay supporting cast members.

It’s why I favored trading Rodgers to keeping him. He’s still great, but at his age he can’t overcome deficits like he needs too. He’s not mobile.
 

AKCheese

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Not trading Rogers was idiotic. He flat out said “I have no interest in being part of a rebuilding process in Green Bay” …. That’s a direct quote. Not only is that where we are, we have de minimus to rebuild with. Rogers had to know this was coming but at least he’s getting paid. Adams (reportedly) took LESS to get out of town and away from this mess. Jones picks his landing spot next year. Could be a couple grim years at Lambeau but as someone pointed out - tickets will be reasonable
 

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