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Tactics under Matt LeFleur

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by XPack, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. XPack

    XPack Cheesehead

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    https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/...kers-rbs-will-become-bigger-receiving-factors

    Talks a bit about his history of using RBs as Receivers.


    I'd expect we could see more of 2 RB combo with one or both destined to be a receiver. Should keep D's guessing and I really want to see more of that!
     
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  2. gbgary

    gbgary Cheesehead

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    he's a big-play guy like MM. expect what we've been seeing. i think the differences will be minor.
     
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  3. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

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    It'll be a combo of Falcons/Rams. Game speed, taking advantage of defensive fronts and achieving maximum running velocity prior to hitting the LOS is a focus in the McVay system. I think we'll see a smarter system and I look forward to see how it fits our personnel. Aaron Jones is very similar to Freeman/Coleman, he may be a big focus of what they do.
     
  4. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    Considering the last three teams he's been with have all used the RBs and the ground game to significant levels of success I'd say that's a pretty big leap
     
  5. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    But why would gbgary let facts get in the way when he just simply doesn't like the guy? :rolleyes:
     
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  6. gbgary

    gbgary Cheesehead

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    :whistling:
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  7. gbgary

    gbgary Cheesehead

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    who said i didn't like him? he's ok with me. i've said before that i prefer one of the young guns over a retread.
     
  8. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    That doesn't mean he's going to be another McCarthy. He's going to run the football and incorporate shorter routes in with the plan in order to open up the more explosive stuff down the field. Additionally, if you scheme properly, you don't have to sit in the pocket waiting for guys to separate to get chunk plays.

    In McCarthy's offense, Rodgers facilitated to the scheme's success. In LaFleur's offense, the scheme will help facilitate to Rodgers' success. There's a difference.
     
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  9. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I don't think you can go by anything except this past season in TEN where he was OC and called the plays. Being QB coach in Atlanta doesn't tell us anything about his preferred scheme, play play mix or presonnel mix. In LA, he may have been the OC but with the "boy genius" McVay as architect and play caller, that season doesn't tell us anything either.

    This past season in TEN, here's the games played, snap counts, carries and targets for their RB group

    Dion Lewis: 16 / 60.9% / 155 / 67
    Derrick Henry: 16 / 40.7% / 215 / 18
    David Fluellen: 7 / 0.6% / 4 / 0

    With a combined snap count of 102.2%, they averaged right at 1 RB per snap. I'm gonna take a wild stab and say that based on that number Lewis and Henry were not on the field together very often if ever.

    The Packers threw to the RBs more this season than TEN did, which contradicts the theme of the link. If Todd Gurley dropped down out of the sky I would d*mn well expect him to get 80 targets because, well, he's Todd Gurley.

    Henry was the designated runner, carrying the ball on more than half of his snaps which, by way of digression, makes his 4.9 yds per carry pretty remarkable. Lewis was utilized more as a run some / catch some guy with more versatility. It's kind of a classic primary runner / 3rd. down back set-up, but with the snap counts flipped.

    Frankly, I hope this tells us absolutely nothing. I would hope scheme / game plans / play calls are made to maximize the talent on hand and exploit favorable matchups, not following some preconceived template.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  10. gbgary

    gbgary Cheesehead

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    everyone he's coached with, everyone he mentions as an influence, were/are big-play guys. in ten he didn't have a qb that fit that. in atl, la, and here, he does. to expect anything else is silly.
     
  11. XPack

    XPack Cheesehead

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    Titans squad sucks and the article covers that. Doubt anyone could make that squad turn a corner.

    For me personally, Matt is kind of guy who can make a good QB into great. Matt in Falcons, Goff in Rams etc. He's not the build and develop type coach and any scheme he implements would be designed to bring about a immediate impact. And we do have the best QB in business and lots of talent in WR and RB. I reckon we are better fit for him than the Titans.
     
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  12. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    I'm simply saying that if you're expecting the same stale man beater routes down the field that McCarthy has been using then you are misinformed. There's nothing wrong with wanting big plays. The question is, how do we get those plays a little easier and more effectively.

    Drawing an equivalency from McCarthy to LaFleur just because of the desire for big plays is logically flawed.
     
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  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    You posited some kind of dual running back thingee. That's what I responded to. And I get the 9-7 Titans suck (implying the Packers do not?) and some fit stuff in response? Sheesh.

    Back on point, I see no reason to believe that LaFluer will want Jones/Williams on the field at the same time any more than he did in TEN, the one season in his career where he actually had control over who's in the game.
     
  14. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    It's a waste of time to look at anything that he did at TN. Henry was running plays from the wildcat nearly every game because the QB could not grip a ball. He did what he had to do with what he was given.

    Titans surprisingly ranked high in terms of opening drive scores and 3rd and long conversion rate (as well as short). He had to deal with a ton of blitzing, which won't be an issue with Rodgers. Mariota also had the highest adjusted rate for deep throws, as well as being #6 in completion percentage (I think). He improved then in many ways, they just lost nearly all of their firepower.
     
  15. gbgary

    gbgary Cheesehead

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    all i said was he's a big-play guy (like MM) so expect to see them taking shots downfield...as they have been for the last several years. not ball control. we'll also continue to see Rodgers holding the ball and extending plays...as he has been. will they start using the middle of the field? who knows...i'd hope so...but it remains to be seen. will Rodgers take what the D gives him? that remains to be seen. will he continue to look past open guys? i hope to hell not. as always it comes down to execution. will this O suddenly do a 180 and be efficient? if it doesn't, look for another frustrating season.
     
  16. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    So, if there's no point in looking at what LeFleur did in TEN because of personnel deficiencies, and now he has entirely different personnel, and that was the only season where he actually had control of the offense, then there really isn't anything to look at?

    I'd go along with that. We have no idea what his approach will be at this juncture.
     
  17. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    Here are some analytical statistics of the TN offense, relative to GB:

    2790A1A6-3EE2-422C-BAAB-5FE948C9920B.jpeg 437DEF10-CC22-4C10-9172-73902F42D9E8.jpeg 9B1317E7-7732-4B34-BE2E-B9896726391A.jpeg

    They measured up really well in terms of 3 and out, considering their injuries and generally poor QBs . Much fewer short passes, but they were one of the best teams in the league when they did. Some very well designed and implemented screens. I can't find the graphic, but Mariota had one of the best adjusted completion percentages in years on deep balls.

    I think that Rodgers will play within the system, trust the play calling, and look like the bright eyed Rodgers of old. He'll probably take way fewer sacks than he has in years as well.
     
  18. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    He is going to scheme people open. Everything MM ran involved a player being covered and having to win a match-up. When was anyone wide open on a route that didn't involve a blown coverage? I would also expect him to tell 12 to bury his obsession with drawing the other team offsides for a free home run play. He is going to want to involve a good amount of motion and that is going to take away from 12's hard count antics.
     
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  19. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Jones becoming a receiving weapon will depend on his improvement in that regard and Rodgers's willingness as much as LaFleur's scheme.
     
  20. 906Fan

    906Fan Former Dancer

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    If LaFleur can fix how slow we are to get the ball snapped and avoid wasting our timeouts I will have one less reason to yell at my tv. Is there stats on timeout usage?
     
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  21. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I think he can fix that but 12 is going to have to do his part. That process takes forever when he starts drawing up alterations to whatever MM called.
     
  22. Jerellh528

    Jerellh528 Cheesehead

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    LaFleur is huge on balance from all the interviews I’ve watched of him. Titans were second in the league in run play% at 51%. The packers were second to last in run play% at 34%.

    At the very least we can expect more unpredictability and balance, which should benefit the entire team. Also Aaron Jones is literally the perfect running style for his offense, he should have a pretty big season and take a lot of pressure off Rodgers, the passing game and help our defense stay off the field.

    Titans also had the highest expected completion percentage in the league last year, which probably says the scheme was getting people open. Packers were ranked 27th at 62.6%

    upload_2019-1-8_20-26-55.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's all pretty amusing when you consider one steady complaint around here is that Rodgers eschews the short throw, holds the ball too long, and takes deep shots while passing up easy yards underneath.

    If by "system" you mean like the Titans throwing deep, a lot, then keep that "Fire LeFluer" thread warm, because there a lot foks arguing the opposite. Mariota likes to run around a lot. I wonder how may of those deep throws were on extended plays. ;) Of course if it was bombs away the dissenters will stop if points and wins accumulate.

    I don't put any stock in any conjectures about how this offense will be run until we see who is and is not signed up to play and then what they look like when they do. Successful coaches in today's game adapt their schemes to the available talent. Philly gives Foles read option; McCarthy sticks Kizer into the same offense Rodgers runs. You know, like that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  24. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    Mariota never runs around and extends plays. Ever. Every single throw he made was just him executing the play call, usually his first read. McCarthy's style of play calling was, "Here's a random pass play. Make it work. Kthankxbye." He never helped out Rodgers in the slightest. Now he will have an extra set of eyes to help him out and more open receivers to throw to.
     
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  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Oh. You mean like the first play in this drive:



    Or the the play at 1:45 where he leaves the pocket to extend the play and makes a 3+ second throw? Or the play at 5:10 where he pulls it down and runs? That's just one drive.

    How about the first 2 plays on this tape:



    Mariota ran the ball 64 times in 14 games. Those were not all read option runs as the above illustrates, though you will find an instance of that in the second tape. And those runs obviously do not include the extended plays where he actually threw the ball or wanted to, examples provided above. Read option, by the way, is not something you're going to see with Rodgers, but I digress.

    This is the NFL. If you can't get to the second or third read, or extend to playground mode if necessary, you're not going to be particularly successful. The Bears, to take one example, where they are purported to run a first read system (which is an exageration, by the way, as to frequency) is not some abstract preference. They are working within the limitations of a good arm with a not entirely developed mind and limitations in the receiver group. And it is worth noting that despite having a good run game, they don't put many points on the board. Is that what you're looking for?

    The fact of the matter is once you take out the gadget plays, the wildcats, jet sweeps, read options, "Philly Specials", end arounds, flea flickers, etc., etc., and get down to drop and throw, there isn't a whole lot of difference in NFL playbooks unless you go to a heavy dose of the Foles-like RPO or some other alternate approach still to be invented. I think if folks stopped hyperventilating over this play or that, and looked at the entire scope of what McCarthy ran, they'd see he had the full boat at his disposal.

    And there was a pretty broad collection of gadget plays as well if that's to your liking. McCarthy just didn't run them very often because they didn't work very often possibly because they were not sufficienctly practiced. Here's an example from 2017 that actually worked: https://www.packers.com/video/packers-qb-rodgers-hits-wr-adams-for-41-yards-on-flea-flicker-19440106

    So, unless LaFleur works in some RPO, which is possible but not something I'd expect to be a staple, you're left with the following which is scheme independent:
    • Personnel development and evaluation up to week 1
    • Constructing the game plan; selecting the plays that fit with the abilities of the players on hand that week against the defensive scheme and particular matchups
    • Calling the right plays within the game plan to fit the situation
    • In-game adjustments, which range from the defense bringing things that are unexpected to compensating for injuries on your side of the ball to exploiting injuries on the other side
    • Week 2 rinse and repeat in a feedback loop
    • Or, in a nutshell, as the title of this thread aptly puts it, the project is one of tactics in light of the above factors
    It comes down to development, insight, preparation, adaptablity and execution, and using the feedback loop. The idea of "scheme" as something you jam players into is exactly the criticism of McCarthy that you are making, a criticism I agree with to a meaningful extent, though that's not the entire picture in his firing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019

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