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Stuffing the run

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by longtimefan, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Green Bay Packers have learned how to stuff the run | greenbaypressgazette.com | Green Bay Press-Gazette



    Jenkins...."its working for us"

    Wasnt he someone that blasted this scheme not to long ago?


    I love the fact that they are stopping the run I think to many times last year they couldnt which led to them losing.

    If I have time after taking kids to school I am going to look up the stats from last year


    After 9 games last year

    22.8 points per game

    1391 total rushing yards.......155 rushing yards per game

    4.8 rushing yards per att


    This year

    19.9 points per game

    838 total rushing yards........93 per game

    3.5 per att
     
  2. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    And we have played some pretty good RBs...

    I think that's the best thing Capers has done... Shore up the run D.

    The only game in which it didn't work out was against the Bengals.
     
  3. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    Stopping the run will even become more of an advantage as the weather gets worse. Ravens at home in Dec. and the chicago/steelers both away on grass. Thats a big advantage playing those type of teams in the conditions that will exsist in DEC.

    Now if we can add a little more pressure on the QB, this switch to the 3-4 will be worth it.

    This year as far as looking ahead to the playoffs, both the vikings and Saints look like they will lock up home field advantage, both in Domes.
     
  4. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    They stuffed Petersen twice for the most part. The problem is, their defense can't consistently stymie opposing passing offenses. Brett Favre is a given, but Josh Freeman???
     
  5. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Tampa Bay they clearly took it lightly. It shouldn't serve as a parameter, other to indicate that this HC can't keep a team focused and motivated...
     
  6. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    If you are going to argue the above ... Then you have got to give McCarthy credit as well for the Dallas game ...

    However, more and more I think it's about the attitude of the players more than anything ... - Seemingly the players had already won against Tampa, even before the game was played ... - And that is always dangerous in the NFL ...

    Oh, and I just read another interview with Jenkins ... - Seems like he is full of praise of the same defense that he "railed" on not that long ago ... - What is up with that ? ... - "Waffling much" ? (irony) ...
     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I mentioned that in my posting
     
  8. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    It's the coach's job to keep players focused. That was on MM.

    I would give MM credit, if it were not for the coincidential "come-to-jesus" meeting with players-only before the Cowboys game.
     
  9. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    So if the team wins, it's despite the coach, whereas when the team loses it's because the coach is poor ?

    And how do we know that the Coaching staff perhaps didn't suggest the players to sit down and get the "air cleaned" ? ...

    I'm not saying that is what happened, however, seeing that the team (Packers) gave the Dallas game ball to McCarthy along with the comment made about how it was the players fault for the Tampa Bay game and not McCarthy's ... You have to wonder ...


    McCarthy clearly stated before the Tampa game that it was not to be taken lightly ... and that losing teams at home are always dangerous to play ... - I seriously doubt that McCarthy hadn't stressed this to the players as well before hand ... - If the players don't listen, then it's not the coach's fault ... - But more the players not being professional enough, which is IN-exusable in the NFL ...
     
  10. JerseyAl

    JerseyAl Cheesehead

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    Speaking of giving Mike McCarthy credit, even I was forced to do so after this game. He did a good number of things right (3 challenges not withstanding). He was one of the three things that made me smile. If you haven't seen it yet, I wrote about it here:

    3 Reasons to Smile… l Packers Lounge
     
  11. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    In all fairness to Jenkins he felt they were being held back, against Dallas they had alot more plays in the play book that they used. Jenkins just wanted to run the defense with all the bells and whistles.
     
  12. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    How the hell did you conclude that from what I've said, when I specifically mentioned why I think it was the players on that particular instance? Only because you wanted to...

    Well, at least even you see that that suggestion was far-fetched...

    They gave the ball to MM because they think of him as their pal... Which is kind of the problem. A coach isn't supposed to be a friend. He's supposed to be more like a father.

    McCarthy stresses every pressconference that they'll clear it up in the penalty department, yet he never helds them accountable for nothing. Nobody loses their starting job, nobody gets repremended... They don't listen because they know nothing will happen if they don't do as they're told.
    ----
    Now, do you or do you not agree that it's the coaches job to keep players focused, and when an entire team seems lacking fire in certain situations, THE ENTIRE TEAM, lacking consistency, the coaches aren't doing a very good job?

    Do you or do you not agree that, when a gameplan is failing, and there doesn't seem to be any kind of adaptation, it's the coaches fault?

    Do you or do you not agree that when there's excess of penalties, season after season, it's the coaches fault?

    If we had a more mature team, with more leadership, then we might be able to overcome MM's lack of motivational skills, as we did in 2007. But we sure have a talented team, and it's the coaches job to max their potential and demand perfection every single snap.
     
  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    RS..

    How do you know the players were not "reprimanded"? We know they are not being benched/losing playing time and they cant be fined (at least publicly) but we do not know he isnt yelling at them...I happen to know he does yell at the players, just never hits the media
     
  14. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    That Finley tweet?

    By reprimended, I mean right after they made the stupid play. Waiting for the film will only do any good to the next game, if that much.

    I know it's old school, but Lombardi, Shula, even Holmgren... the player knew if he made an idiot decision, they would hear it in the minute they went to the bench.

    And it worked back then.

    The way MM is doing clearly isn't working.
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    okay I would agree with that..

    I would like to see him get on a player right after the play....But from what I gather is he likes to handle stuff away from the public..
     
  16. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Which would be fine if we had the type of players that are mature enough to respond to that. But it seems like either our players have the memory span of a fish, or just don't care about what he says in the lockerroom, because it's all bark and no bite...

    I once thought it could be a plot from the players to fire MM.

    But now I just think it's his approach. I honestly believe that he appears more like a "friend" to the players than a "father", which would explain why the players like him to the point of give him the ball game, yet don't "fear" him enough to execute what he says in a consistant basis.

    In the end, I think the key word is "consistency". And in order to do that, there must be discipline, focus and determination from all players every snap, which is what is lacking in this team.

    But hey, maybe the friend approach can work. There's still a lot of ball left to play...
     
  17. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    I did *NOT* conclude anything ... on the contrary ... I was asking a question ... - Again you jump to conclusions ...



    Again I was postulating ... Because from what I'm told ... McCarthy does infact reprimande players, however he almost never and by choice, never do it publically ... Because that is not how he (McCarthy) "run things" ...



    Ah ... Would seem you know why the players gave the Game Ball to McCarthy ... Despite of what was being said by the very same player, who gave him the Game Ball ... (look up the video clip, if you are not sure what I'm referring to ...)



    Again, - Perhaps that is truly McCarthy's paradox ... - Because right now ... On the Packers team, there really is NO substitution if he wants to bench a player ... Because then you would probably argue the other way around, that McCarthy is being a fool, because he is benching the best choice he has for that position ... - If you are going to reprimande players and "punish" them by benching them ... it kinda requires you have a competent back-up to fill that particular spot ... And as everyone knows ... the Packers are stretched thin this year ...


    So by that definition, whenever a player is executing poorly, it's because the coach is failing at his job ? Because that is in essence what you are saying ... Ofcourse it's the coach's job to motivate, *HOWEVER* if the players aren't listening, it's NOT the coaches fault ... - Again my point is ... it's just not as black and white as *YOU* want it to be ...

    McCarthy has already proven that he is able to coach, as long as he has some on-field leadership present as well within the team ... Something the Packers have lacked severely (it would seem) ever since Favre left ...



    Actually from watching the games ... There seem to be several indication of the coaches trying to adapt, but the players lacking the ability to execute ... and also the players lacking ability to adapt to the current game situation ... (I'm mainly referring to Rodgers here ... and his short passes and check down targets ... - They are *THERE*, but wasn't being used - untill the Dallas Game ...) - *That* is NOT the coaches fault, but more the players' fault ...



    To some extent ... But not only ... If the players aren't listening ... no amount of reprimanding nor "punishment" will make the situation better ... Jolly's comment after the game before the Dallas game is a very good indication of a player, who isn't really being professional enough ... Sad part is ... Who did you want McCarthy to replace him with ?



    There are plenty of "mature" players who *should* be leading on the Packers team ... - I fault the players more than I actually fault McCarthy at this point ... The Dallas Game kinda proved that point ...

    Compare the Tampa game to the Dallas game ... - It was the same players (with a few select exceptions), - yet the game played in each was totally different - like 180 degrees different ...

    That to me says more about the players, than it does about McCarthy ...



    If what you said above was true it would be IN-exusable from a professional NFL player ... - In fact that could be argued to being close to acting like a "Diva" or bunch of "Diva's" ...



    Again, IF that were even close to being true ... the entire squad ought to be fined and reprimanded by the Organisation in public ...



    I seriously doubt that ... - Again ... McCarthy didn't seem to have those problems in 2007 ... - And I'm saying that even though I'm a huge Favre fan ...



    I agree, however, it is also about consistency from the players ... Not only the coach, however, in all sports, mostly when a team is performing poorly, the coach is the first to be blamed, and when it goes well, the players are the first to get credit, not the coaches ...

    Case in point ... New England Patriots ...




    Just because McCarthy doesn't publically berate his players, doesn't mean he doesn't berate them ... - And I seriously doubt you would like if he did ... - Because I would bet you would be among the first to "rail" on him for doing it publically and not internally then ...
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    RS,I really believe your far off base here..

    I have heard things from insiders that what your saying isnt true at all..

    Leadership seems to lacking, and look no further then the best player on the D
     
  19. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Those "questions" I'll reffer to them later.
    He said it was their fault. I never said it wasn't, my point is that a really great coach will will his players, and not depend on their temperament...

    Nah, I don't buy that. Porter was benched for one game. What happened on the game he came back? 2 sacks.

    Consistancy. That's what I'm talking about. When the WHOLE TEAM lacks consistancy. Again, you seem to be making a question, but that's really an innapropriate conclusion.
    See? Here's the innapropriate conclusion. "You don't want the Nam War? You're a communist."

    If the players, all of them, aren't listening, then IT IS the coaches fault. They aren't being able to make the players believe in them.

    Duh, that's exactly what I've been saying. So he's a good coach as long as someone can motivate the team and be a leader. He lacks the leadership necessary to be a coach, and if someone can do that job for him, then it's fine. If not, then it's not. That's what the problem is.

    I knew that it would end up being Rodger's fault somehow. To quote Jersey Al, "what have you been drinking?"

    He has adapted? HE SAID IT HIMSELF HE ONLY LET RODGERS CALL THE SHOTS AGAINST THE DALLAS GAME, AND WE ALL KNOW HOW THAT WENT.

    If you trully believe that McCarthy has indeed called for more short passes and more runs, prior to the Cowboys game, then there's no point in discussing with you.

    If they aren't listening, he's not doing a good job in selling his philosophy. It *could* be because he appears more as a friend than a father.

    Who did I want him to replace him with? Raji. Wynn. Obviously they're not as good as Jolly, but see the Joey Porter case.

    Yes, they should. But it's the coaches job to make sure they do. The Dallas game proved exactly that, that if the players can rile up, than we can make it. If not, don't count on the coaches to do it,

    That, to me, says exactly my point, that McCarthy couldn't keep them focused to that game. It tells me that during McCarthy's tenure, the Green Bay Packers have been a VERY irregular team, capable of playing a great game one day, and an awful game the next.

    So the WHOLE team is composed of Divas? That is hard to swallow...

    And even though I hate him for playing in Minnesota, that's exactly my point. Favre had the kind of leadership that allowed this team to lack such a coach. The kind of leadership Rodgers don't have. The fact that one has been in the league for 17 years, and the other for 5, with only 1 and a half season playing, doesn't change that. And it doesn't change the fact that MM isn't a good coach enough to exercise that leadership, something that is IMHO condition sine qua non to be a great HC.

    I can see what you're saying, but when you use Bill Belichick as an example of that, then you must not have been in this earth for quite some time. Just so you know, there have already been petitions to change the Lombardi Trophy to the Belichick Trophy...


    Different players react differently to the same circunstances. McCarthy needs to find what's the best approach to his players. His current approach isn't working.

    You obviously don't know me well enough to make that claim. I've said it before that I WANT him to do it, and I mentioned why. If you're just going to ignore it, then good day sir, I said good day.
     
  20. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    What that I am saying is wrong?

    Leadership, that Barnett and Woodson aren't leaders enough?

    Look, I understand what you're all saying, that we should've more leadership on the field, and I completely agree, however, that doesn't change the fact that we don't have leadership enough off the field.
     
  21. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Colledge put on "Notice" ...

    Click Here ...


    Also another interesting stat ... Full Story.





    But hey ... McCarthy is a "bad coach" and doesn't know how to motivate ... - Have to make you wonder, doesn't it ?
     
  22. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Nice article
     
  23. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Clearly you don't read what I post, or only read bits of it...

    I never said McCarthy didn't have qualities as a coach... Ball security is one of them. Play design is another.

    But, right now, unfortunately, his flaws in motivation and adjustability are outweighing his positive aspects.

    But as I've stated numerous times before, I don't care if MM stays, as long as we're winning. I would actually like that very much.

    So, if he can rebound, and if the team is willing to rile up for him, then it's a good thing, he should stay.

    But if he can't correct the same mistakes this team has been making since 2007 (penalties and bad finish), then he needs to go.
     
  24. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    RS Ithink your view on the fact that he wants to be a friend indicates that you think he can't coach and that the players dont respect him..

    This article about turnovers indicate that the players do listen to him in that regard...

    So why is it they can grasp the ball security lessons, but not the penalty lessons
     
  25. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    My indication that he wants to be friends doens't mean I think he can't coach and that players don't respect him. It means that he's not a complete coach (right now) and that the players don't fear him.

    The turnovers issue is the base of his philosophy. It's what he enphasises the most.

    It's not black on white, they either listen fully to him or just don't.

    I really doubt he demands less penalties with the same intensity as he demands ball security and turnovers.

    Actually, it's exactly because he made the team so good at turnovers that we have a chance to win every game.

    But when your leader doesn't care that much about an issue, the followers won't care that much. And McCarthy has said over and over again that he's not that worried about penalties.

    Also, the method he utilizes on training. On the bye week, he trained a lot less than teams usually do.

    And his quote from the Tampa Bay game, that he had overtrained the team...

    Like Lombardi said: Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.
     

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