Studs n duds Cowboys

[rmontro]

It's really the loss of two pieces - Kenny Clark and Wyatt. Stackhouse and others are what they are....not elite.

They didn't have Clark in the first three games either, but they looked pretty good in those.

 

[OldSchool101]

It doesn't matter to coaches. Someone's head has to roll and Banks head was the least valuable moving down the road. I believe it was the coaches who failed here. Banks was the sacrificial lamb.

I didn’t realize Banks was responsible thanks.

The rules and strategy is to hit the landing zone. Bringing out the 35 is a little painful, thus teams are nudged to kick it short.

Yes. Ideally you want to hit the 1 yard line. Realistically though that’s too close a target. K probably aim for the 5 yard line area is my guess or that’s what I’d do. Another option is a lower driving Kick that hits around the 10 yet some velocity that carries it near the Paint. It’s a little harder to field and risks being spotted at the 20 if not actively returned.

I believe @tynimiller said the reason for the bad play was because Wyatt got injured. Which I'm sure makes logical sense, but I hate to think that the loss of just one piece can lead to such a complete collapse.

I truly believe the Dallas passing game just had one of those 2 or 3 performances in a season type, great games. Several of those passes were just lobbed up as Dak was under duress and falling backwards etc.
I know there’s been talk about holding, but it truly was a terrible job by the officials. I rarely say that as some excuse but the Officiating gets a D- and that includes the Booth. Unfortunately some closer games get decided by a clump of bad officiating. I rarely blame officials because most games both teams get an equal dose.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

They didn't have Clark in the first three games either, but they looked pretty good in those.

But they had Wyatt for those 3 in full.

 

[rmontro]

But they had Wyatt for those 3 in full.

Yeah, but the point is Clark hasn't been the difference, even though it would be nice to have him. So we appear to have one of the most dominant defenses in the league, but lose one piece and it all collapses.

 

[Voyageur]

Yeah, but the point is Clark hasn't been the difference, even though it would be nice to have him. So we appear to have one of the most dominant defenses in the league, but lose one piece and it all collapses.

There are three problems from what I can see, even though it's kind of limited based on what I've found for film to watch. Losing Wyatt showed we lack the depth on the defensive line to have a true next man up mentality. That brings us to point number two. For some reason, Cooper's play has not been what I'd have expected from him. That brings me to point number three. The schemes. Have they done major scheme adjustments to make up for the first problem which in turn hurts Cooper's play and weakens then in run defense, and limits the pass rush capability? It's amazing how a chain reaction can occur with one injury even if it's a player who doesn't seem to be that significant because he isn't seen as making gaudy plays.

 

[El Guapo]

I do believe Stackhouse can be every bit of what Slaton was and then some....again though NOT elite.

Sure, but that isn't the discussion here. We are discussing why the defense seemed to fall apart. I like Stackhouse's potential as well, but right now he is just a big body that doesn't actually do anything when he's in the game.

They didn't have Clark in the first three games either, but they looked pretty good in those.

You don't notice when you're low on oil until the engine sputters to a stop. The Packers have been low on big, interior guys that can play at a high level.

Wyatt has been playing phenomenally but without Clark or any other guy that can play at a top level, it showed once he left the game for good. My unfortunately prediction is that we are going to struggle until he is back in top form. Last year, it took him a long time to really recover from his ankle injury. He returned in Week 8 but didn't really start playing back to form until the final stretch. Without players of Clark or Slayton's quality, Hafely will have to get very creative until Wyatt can fully recover from his knee injury.

 

[El Guapo]

Yeah, but the point is Clark hasn't been the difference, even though it would be nice to have him. So we appear to have one of the most dominant defenses in the league, but lose one piece and it all collapses.

It does collapse when the interior of the OL can all block 1-to-1 allowing the tackles to double-team our edge rushers. Without any kind of a pass rush, our weak secondary will struggle.

So yes, the Packers defense has been a house of cards.

On top of that, they mentioned the heat several times in the broadcast. Both teams' defenses appeared to wear down in the second half. Voyageur's comment about Cooper playing like complete carp was spot on. LVN and Gary may not have even played in the game. I'm not sure. I don't remember hearing their names.

 

[Voyageur]

It does collapse when the interior of the OL can all block 1-to-1 allowing the tackles to double-team our edge rushers. Without any kind of a pass rush, our weak secondary will struggle.

So yes, the Packers defense has been a house of cards.

On top of that, they mentioned the heat several times in the broadcast. Both teams' defenses appeared to wear down in the second half. Voyageur's comment about Cooper playing like complete carp was spot on. LVN and Gary may not have even played in the game. I'm not sure. I don't remember hearing their names.

Having moved to Texas, and having learned how to live in the heat, I can tell you it isn't easy when you're doing anything that includes exerting energy. It saps the strength out of you pretty darned quickly. The longer you're down here, and your body is adjusting to it, the easier it is to go at it longer. There's a good reason Jones likes to play games with the roof during the early season. He can use it to give his team a slight advantage due to the heat. I do believe it was a factor that works against teams like the Packers especially when they come in shorthanded and have fewer guys for their rotations.

 

[rmontro]

On top of that, they mentioned the heat several times in the broadcast. Both teams' defenses appeared to wear down in the second half.

You make a good point. I always get nervous when we play down in Florida, especially early in the year, because we don't seem to do well in the heat. I hadn't even considered that might be true in Dallas, since we've played them pretty well in recent meetings. But the defense also appeared to let down at the very end of the previous three games also (it appears to be more than simply the move to prevent):

Game 1: The Lions scored their only TD in the fourth quarter, having scored only two field goals in the first three.
Game 2: The Commanders Football Team scored 15 points in the fourth quarter, having only scored one field goal in the first three.
Game 3: The Browns scored all 13 of their points in the fourth quarter.

 

[OldSchool101]

Sure, but that isn't the discussion here. We are discussing why the defense seemed to fall apart. I like Stackhouse's potential as well, but right now he is just a big body that doesn't actually do anything when he's in the game.


You don't notice when you're low on oil until the engine sputters to a stop. The Packers have been low on big, interior guys that can play at a high level.

Wyatt has been playing phenomenally but without Clark or any other guy that can play at a top level, it showed once he left the game for good. My unfortunately prediction is that we are going to struggle until he is back in top form. Last year, it took him a long time to really recover from his ankle injury. He returned in Week 8 but didn't really start playing back to form until the final stretch. Without players of Clark or Slayton's quality, Hafely will have to get very creative until Wyatt can fully recover from his knee injury.

and where the heck is Warren Brinson? He’s not exactly small at 6’5 X 315lb. He was having a good Preseason and just got abducted by aliens. Did I miss something with him?

But the defense also appeared to let down at the very end of the previous three games also (it appears to be more than simply the move to prevent):

Against Washington, the first scoring started the drive in Qtr3 at the 50 yardline (sound familiar?) We had actually had them in 4th down but Hobbs got called for holding and gifted them 5 yards a free 1st down. It was a 27-10 lead until 2:54 minutes of gameclock in Qtr4.Personally, I could care less about our opponent scoring in the closing minutes as long as we win by multiple scores after they do

Against Cleveland? It’s not our D fault our O gave them ANOTHER short field at the GB4 (familiar theme) Had we just run it and punted? Whelan is AVERAGING 53 yards per Punt! He’s #3 in the NFL in average Punt. If he hits a 55 yarder or hits a 50 yarder with a nice hop from the GB28? it’s lights out!! What if we ran it there an actually got 3 yards? It was 1st down and game over.
The only thing our O could do to ruin that Win was hand the ball to Cleveland there. We don’t even trust our D after that stifling performance. Shameful our O spots Cleveland the ball on the GB4?? The Browns had 3pts across 57 minutes. What were we so afraid of? Them going 65 yards with no timeouts at 2:30 left.

At Dallas I’d agree. we just absolutely crumbled after Halftime. The constant Packer foul ups on Teams and Offense really took the wind out of our sails imo. Totally flipped momentum. Yet our D is allowed to have a bad 1/2 game. Once in awhile your opponent is going to score or get hot.
If we have 2 Quarters of bad D play every 4th game I can live with that. I need O and Teams need to do their part.

Good news! We played easily our worst D performance in 2025 and didn’t lose. Something to be said for that.

 

[rmontro]

Against Washington, the first scoring started the drive in Qtr3 at the 50 yardline (sound familiar?) We had actually had them in 4th down but Hobbs got called for holding and gifted them 5 yards a free 1st down. It was a 27-10 lead until 2:54 minutes of gameclock in Qtr4.Personally, I could care less about our opponent scoring in the closing minutes as long as we win by multiple scores after they do

Against Cleveland? It’s not our D fault our O gave them ANOTHER short field at the GB4 (familiar theme) Had we just run it and punted? Whelan is AVERAGING 53 yards per Punt! He’s #3 in the NFL in average Punt. If he hits a 55 yarder or hits a 50 yarder with a nice hop from the GB28? it’s lights out!! What if we ran it there an actually got 3 yards? It was 1st down and game over.
The only thing our O could do to ruin that Win was hand the ball to Cleveland there. We don’t even trust our D after that stifling performance. Shameful our O spots Cleveland the ball on the GB4?? The Browns had 3pts across 57 minutes. What were we so afraid of? Them going 65 yards with no timeouts at 2:30 left.

For sure, there were mistakes by the other squads, plus changing the approach, but still: In the first three games total: 9 points in the first three quarters, 35 in the fourth. I think they wore down some.

 

[milani]

Having moved to Texas, and having learned how to live in the heat, I can tell you it isn't easy when you're doing anything that includes exerting energy. It saps the strength out of you pretty darned quickly. The longer you're down here, and your body is adjusting to it, the easier it is to go at it longer. There's a good reason Jones likes to play games with the roof during the early season. He can use it to give his team a slight advantage due to the heat. I do believe it was a factor that works against teams like the Packers especially when they come in shorthanded and have fewer guys for their rotations.

Good news is that next week at Lambeau they get to taste that cooler Fall weather.

 

[Thirteen Below]

You make a good point. I always get nervous when we play down in Florida, especially early in the year, because we don't seem to do well in the heat. I hadn't even considered that might be true in Dallas, since we've played them pretty well in recent meetings. But the defense also appeared to let down at the very end of the previous three games also (it appears to be more than simply the move to prevent):

This is the main reason so many southern teams choose to wear their white uniforms at home - they felt that it gave them an advantage in early season games (especially before domed stadiums), and then it became their tradition.

 

[Thirteen Below]

and where the heck is Warren Brinson? He’s not exactly small at 6’5 X 315lb. He was having a good Preseason and just got abducted by aliens. Did I miss something with him?

I asked the same thing a few days ago, but nobody knew, so I started digging - even using AI.

There does not seem to be any information anywhere; nobody knows. The Packers haven't commented on him since the regular season began, and he's not on the injured list, but he hasn't been on the gameday roster in a single game.

It's a mystery. I'm really surprised, because he made some noise in camp and the preseason, and I had such high hopes. I loved him since Day One, like a lot of people, and I still think he's going to be a fan favorite. But his total absence at this point is very puzzling.

 

[El Guapo]

But his total absence at this point is very puzzling.

It's just a numbers thing on game day. We don't have any injuries at the Edge position, and while he did show some promise, it's likely the the coaches feel that he needs to marinate longer.

 

[OldSchool101]

For sure, there were mistakes by the other squads, plus changing the approach, but still: In the first three games total: 9 points in the first three quarters, 35 in the fourth. I think they wore down some.

Yeah that’s the other mixture. Pretty typical across the league that if you’re going to give up points? It’s in the 4th quarter where teams extend the qtr with multiple timeouts etc. and Defenses are tired. Also many teams that are losing are in 4-down territory where they have no choice but risk it, thus leading to more points etc. Really hard for a Defense to hold to no TD for 60 minutes. Ideally our Offense puts some points on the board and doesn’t turn the ball over in opponent scoring position. Just a worst case scenario there and our O did it at the closing of a Half in back to back games.

 

[rmontro]

Yeah that’s the other mixture. Pretty typical across the league that if you’re going to give up points? It’s in the 4th quarter where teams extend the qtr with multiple timeouts etc. and Defenses are tired.

I don't doubt that teams score the most points in the first quarter. I'm not sure of it, but I'll take your word for it. But there's no way that it's typical that teams score nearly four times as many points in the fourth quarter as in the other three combined.