Studs n duds Colts

GleefulGary

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I would be very surprised if (even though it was the most publicized) that it was the only thing happening to Devine and family. Good for the rancher? I don't know. He certainly has the right. Just not sure he deserves applause. He was just doing what he had to do.


I don’t know anything about the story. I just know that dogs running amongst cattle can cause numerous issues. And it’s a fairly common problem, and people don’t care that they’re interfering with someone’s business and ability to make money.
 

longtimefan

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Not to beat a dead horse, but if you ARE Aaron Rodgers and have the experiences with your current receiving group that he has had, who do you have the most confidence in?
You are beating it after I explained what I wanted. Im not him and can only THINK what I would have done. And I explained what I wanted...

You posted numerous huge paragraphs for your opinion..

I understand your point perfectly and I understand it..

I just dont agree..

Now time to move on and start the turkey
 

gopkrs

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why is williams not suited to be on the field? Yes Jones is stronger than he looks, he also gets tossed down like a rag doll sometimes. I do not think he's a stronger runner with bodies stack up on a consistent basis. They usually run WIlliams on short yardage and he's been pretty good at it. Teams know this, it's on film repeatedly. he also gives them a very good receiving option as an outlet and in passing patterns, he's also the better pass protector. They thought they could get them guessing run because they usually run short yardage with him. They didn't buy it.

It happens. Jones wasn't getting open on that play either. everyone knows Jones is the more explosive player, it doesn't mean everything works because he's in, or when it doesn't, the failure isn't always because he wasn't in. But someone would like us to believe that.
Good to see this play from above and covering the whole field, thank you. This angle confirms what I was saying.
  • The play was designed to go to Adams.
  • Rodgers only had enough time to look and throw it near Adams.
  • Tonyan became wide open, but only after Rodgers had committed to the pass to Adams.
So yes, had the play call been designed to go to Tonyan, Rodgers hopefully leads him enough and its an easy catch and TD.

However, for those using this play as "Rodgers never looks for other receivers", which is how the discussion of this play first was presented by someone, this isn't the play to try and prove THAT argument. Rodgers had time for one look and it was to the primary receiver on the play, Davante Adams.

So some will ask "why is Adams the primary receiver in so many plays?" I don't know, look at the talent of the Receiving group and you tell me why.
No matter what, he never should have clocked the ball. And that 2nd down play was a head scratcher for me.
 

gopkrs

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I don’t know anything about the story. I just know that dogs running amongst cattle can cause numerous issues. And it’s a fairly common problem, and people don’t care that they’re interfering with someone’s business and ability to make money.
You also don't know how to read what I said.
 

Pugger

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I think Jones is the better back but Williams brings his unique skill set too. It would be great to be able keep all 4 of our RBs going forward.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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No matter what, he never should have clocked the ball. And that 2nd down play was a head scratcher for me.

I didn't like either of the "clocked balls" either. The only thing I have to wonder is if Guys were winded and or not familiar enough with plays, that **** and/or Aaron thought they better spike and huddle up.

I may have selective memory, but Aaron seemed a lot more efficient with the hurry up when he had Jordy, Cobb and Adams. Part of the benefit of being on the same page with experienced, as well as talented receivers. I also think he ran the hurry up offense a lot more frequently under MM and not just in 2 minute situations. Is that because of the different coaching styles or because of the receiver group?

Had Aaron not spiked it, threw a hurried pass and it was intercepted, many would probably be asking why he didn't just clock the ball and regroup.
 

gopkrs

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Had Aaron not spiked it, threw a hurried pass and it was intercepted, many would probably be asking why he didn't just clock the ball and regroup.
Maybe he should have just spiked it every down then. ;) No, I don't buy any of that. Both sides are tired and Aaron can throw it away. Why in the world not look for an easy TD?
 

Mondio

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It's almost as if there are many outcomes for the same situations depending on different variables with the same players...
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Maybe he should have just spiked it every down then. ;) No, I don't buy any of that. Both sides are tired and Aaron can throw it away. Why in the world not look for an easy TD?

I'm just saying, we don't know and trust me, I was wondering why he spiked it, both times. IMO Aaron is one of the best at running a 2 minute drill, at any point in a game and with that much time on the clock, no need to spike, IF the correct players are on the field.

MLF has taken him away from that in the normal course of a game. Why? Probably not the way MLF wants his offense run and/or he likes rotating personnel. Hard to argue when your offense looks like they did during the first half, but when it goes stagnant like the 2nd half of the Indy game, I say pick it up with a hurry up.
 
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gopkrs

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Just can't understand how you can even try to justify it. "correct players are on the field." How lame imho
 

swhitset

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Just can't understand how you can even try to justify it. "correct players are on the field." How lame imho
Are you just in a particularly bad mood? Or do you just enjoy looking for a reason to be contrary?... It seems to me that most people including me actually agree with you, but are trying to keep an open mind.
 

gopkrs

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Are you just in a particularly bad mood? Or do you just enjoy looking for a reason to be contrary?... It seems to me that most people including me actually agree with you, but are trying to keep an open mind.
Just contrary today. But honestly, I cannot see any reason for wasting the downs. Favre used to do it and it drove me crazy every time he did it when he did not have to. But in the more personal matter... you are right. I apologize for today.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Just can't understand how you can even try to justify it. "correct players are on the field." How lame imho

"correct players" as in the players that you may want to substitute in for various reasons for the next play. Not to be a smart ***, but you do know that the same 11 guys aren't playing on every consecutive down?

Go back and read my initial post. I wasn't trying to justify the clocked balls, I disagreed with them. So not sure why you are so crabby over me trying to talk out loud as to some of the rationale behind what Rodgers and the Packers obviously thought was correct, regardless of what you and I thought.
 

gopkrs

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Yes, they might not be the players you would like for the next play. I am only saying that is not a reason to waste a down when you only have 3. Rodgers can roll left or right just outside the tackle box so that he can throw away the ball easily and then look to the end zone to make a TD throw if he has the time. The defense will also be a little off kilter. Next play you can bring in who you want for the next play. But you did not just waste 1 opportunity out of 3. I just don't see personnel as a valid reason and I don't want them to justify clocking the ball in that type of situation. I just can't understand it. I hope they don't do it again but since no one in the media has said much about it (nor Rodgers); I am not real hopeful. So I got upset. Sorry.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I am not real hopeful. So I got upset. Sorry.

Again, I was screaming at my TV about it as well.

There are definitely times when spiking the ball is warranted. Both you and I just question whether these 2 times were the best times. In the Packers "defense", they picked up a first down right after the first spike. Had they not spiked both times, they may have run out of time for that final play.

The play I love to see and Rodgers has done it a few times, is the "fake spike". You walk up to the line making everyone think you are going to spike it and actually end up tossing the ball to a WR who may have gotten a few steps on a defender that thought a spike was coming.

Marino made this play famous.

Dan Marino ICONIC Fake Spike (11/27/1994) - YouTube

and Rodgers was able to repeat it against of all teams....the Dolphins.

Packers vs. Dolphins Game-Winning Drive (2014 Week 6) - YouTube

EDIT/ADD: This was fun to watch, maybe the Packers need to be more creative in certain situations. :D

Most Outstanding Trick Plays in Football History ᴴᴰ - YouTube
 
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captainWIMM

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Kirksey was 2nd on the team in tackles with 6 and had 5 assisted tackles with an INT. He also had the TD return called back, which seemed almost identical to the Rodgers fumble to end the game against MN. He might not be the best ILB in the league, but he is not a bad football player. Everyone knows we need to upgrade that position, but he is probably the best on the team.

It's most likely true that Kirksey is the best inside linebacker on the team but that is mostly based on a lack of overall talent at the position.

We had a better offense with Adams on the sideline when Rodgers was heavily targeting Tonyan and Lazard.

That's a ludicrous statement to make.

Even if Tonyan is wide open in the back of the end zone for the game winning TD?

Take a look at the picture below and tell me how Tonyan is more open than Adams at this point with Rodgers being forced to release the ball:

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The thing is, when it is a play for a longer 3rd down; Rodgers does not seem to look for anyone else. Yeah, he throws a lot of balls short and to backs and all that gets counted in your stat.

On third downs with at least seven yards to go Rodgers has targeted anyone else than Adams on 34 of 45 passes (75.6%) this season.

3rd and 1, 4th and 1, so damn frustrating for the Packers, even back in the McCarthy days.

The Packers rank tied for 25th in first down percentage on third and fourth down since MLF took over.

They fared even worse over McCarthy's tenure with only two teams having a lower first down percentage.

I was surprised to see that the Packers are 4th in the NFL on 3rd down conversions (47.90%) but 21st in 4th down conversions (53.3%).

IF anyone has them, I would love to see a breakdown on yardage needed to gain. Since I am skeptical that we would be in that same 48-53% range on our 3rd and 4th down and 2 or less yards. Just feels like we struggle on those short yardage pickups, I could be wrong.

The Packers need to gain an average of 6.7 yards on third down for a first down. Only 10 teams need less than that.

The team has converted 64.0% of third downs with two of fewer yards to go, tied for 16th in the league.
 

Krabs

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Take a look at the picture below and tell me how Tonyan is more open than Adams at this point with Rodgers being forced to release the ball:

As an FYI, I already said that I was being sarcastic because another poster said you have to feed Adams the ball at all costs. I'm paraphrasing, but my point was that you can't force it to him. It wasn't necessarily in respect to this play.
 

captainWIMM

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As an FYI, I already said that I was being sarcastic because another poster said you have to feed Adams the ball at all costs. I'm paraphrasing, but my point was that you can't force it to him. It wasn't necessarily in respect to this play.

While it's true Rodgers shouldn't force the ball to Adams there's no reason for him to target other receivers just for the sake of spreading the ball.
 

Krabs

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While it's true Rodgers shouldn't force the ball to Adams there's no reason for him to target other receivers just for the sake of spreading the ball.

I'm clearly not saying that. I'm saying he has to throw the ball to the open guy and sometimes it's not Adams. My only point was you can't just pass to Adams for the sake of passing to Adams because he is a good WR. Get everyone involved in the structure of the offense and scheme to get Adams open. I'm now done with this conversation.
 
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