Studs n duds Brazil edition

[Magooch]

I mean, I lost count of the number of times where he went to the presser after a loss and addressed some issue we had with our defense or special teams and yet refused to can Drayton and Barry until he was left with virtually no choice...it pretty much seems after just about every loss (or even the sloppy wins) there's some sort of issue where we hear "That's on me, we have to do better" or whatever and it's just words at this point. Maybe there are not too many specific single-play instances mentioned prior but I think you'll forgive my skepticism at this point. I like the guy alright at a coach, and wanting to take the heat off your players/coaches is an admirable quality to have, but at this point it's pretty much an "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of thing, given his track record of empty "Buck stops here" type of comments. It is what it is.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I mean, I lost count of the number of times where he went to the presser after a loss and addressed some issue we had with our defense or special teams and yet refused to can Drayton and Barry until he was left with virtually no choice...it pretty much seems after just about every loss (or even the sloppy wins) there's some sort of issue where we hear "That's on me, we have to do better" or whatever and it's just words at this point. Maybe there are not too many specific single-play instances mentioned prior but I think you'll forgive my skepticism at this point. I like the guy alright at a coach, and wanting to take the heat off your players/coaches is an admirable quality to have, but at this point it's pretty much an "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of thing, given his track record of empty "Buck stops here" type of comments. It is what it is.

While I see your point, I also understand that sometimes a coaches job is to be the shield for their organization at pressers. People can ask very stupid or too general of questions and expect rock solid answers of "who, why, when, how and what for." Some of the coaches answers are going to protect other coaches, players, etc., some of their answers are going to protect team strategies and sometimes, they just don't have an answer. The bottom line with a HC is "Are you winning or losing games?" "Are your players performing up to expectations." How they get there or the bumps along the way can sometimes be maddening and great sound bites for reporters and fans, but in the grand scheme of things, don't matter. The Packers lost the game, but Nixon returning a ball out of the EZ is not what lost them that game.

In the grand scheme of things, Nixon and Bisaccia have been good assets for the Packers. So over focusing on the 1 decision in the EZ, during a game of 100's of decisions, is being overly critical and nitpicky IMO. If it was a mistake by a player or coach, it will be corrected. If it is a repeated mistake by the same people, other actions will happen.

Personally, I like the way MLF handles pressers. He's not a big BS'er, nor is he all rainbows and fuzzy kittens. He gives the info that he feels is necessary, has his players and coaches backs and gets back to work.

 

[Krabs]

Personally, I like the way MLF handles pressers. He's not a big BS'er, nor is he all rainbows and fuzzy kittens. He gives the info that he feels is necessary, has his players and coaches backs and gets back to work.

I think this is one of MLF biggest assets. One could really see it last year and especially after the bye week.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

but I suspect both Rich and Nixon were told something like - Okay guess I need to communicate basic football common sense LOL

We will have to agree to disagree on whether it was basic football common sense or not.

I admit, when I saw Nixon bring it out, I screamed "WTF are you doing?" Afterwards, I put some thought to it and saw the risk, but also the upside of the gamble. Yup, didn't work out, but it could have. If it had, and he takes it to the house, Packers win, and we would still be talking about what a brilliant and ballsy decision that was to have him return it.

I felt the same way about Gute's decisions to draft both Love and Gary, but once the smoke cleared, I understood just why they did it.

 

[tynimiller]

We will have to agree to disagree on whether it was basic football common sense or not.

I admit, when I saw Nixon bring it out, I screamed "WTF are you doing?" Afterwards, I put some thought to it and saw the risk, but also the upside of the gamble. Yup, didn't work out, but it could have. If it had, and he takes it to the house, Packers win, and we would still be talking about what a brilliant and ballsy decision that was to have him return it.

I felt the same way about Gute's decisions to draft both Love and Gary, but once the smoke cleared, I understood just why they did it.

Nope - I see it in the same light as throwing a jump ball into double coverage...not just single but double coverage. DUMB unless a hail mary with time expiring.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

DUMB unless a hail mary with time expiring.

Which is what it would have taken to win that game, but you still have to get to the 50 first to even try a HM, which they did, even with the kickoff return only getting out to the 15.

 

[tynimiller]

Which is what it would have taken to win that game

Which was NOT the play in question - would have had one more play minimum with time lost.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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[Cornelius Weems]

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Let's be honest though, realistically I see JL returning week 4 or 5 at the earliest. If JL returns earlier, it probably is a rush job (although 4-5 weeks will be rushing it) and can backfire really badly. We don't want another rush him back, only for him to get hurt worse, like they did with KD, let him heal.

 

[tynimiller]

So my main contact won't say anything specific, but he has confirmed multiple times how big of a sigh of relief everyone collectively seems to have done with the severity not being nearly as bad as everyone expected. I've not pushed him about this week or three weeks or what not, but still the fact the team is shocked - who knows what we see. I think the question is going to be far more how much of a mental hurdle did this just put in JLove's head...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So my main contact won't say anything specific, but he has confirmed multiple times how big of a sigh of relief everyone collectively seems to have done with the severity not being nearly as bad as everyone expected. I've not pushed him about this week or three weeks or what not, but still the fact the team is shocked - who knows what we see. I think the question is going to be far more how much of a mental hurdle did this just put in JLove's head...

While I didn't watch the Dolphins game last night, I just saw the play and news on Tua's concussion. Not that either injury was "good", but as a Packer fan, I am much less worried about the future of Jordan Love, than a Dolphin fan must be about Tua. Could be that Tua will be on the field quicker than Love, but how long is he going to last in the NFL before he decides his long term health is more important?

When I slowed that play down, it appeared the concussion was caused by the back of his head hitting the ground with a snap like force. I know we all had a good laugh about players maybe wearing those practice helmet pads during games, but JFC, something has to be done about the "protection" that the current helmet appears not to be providing.

 

[OldSchool101]

i didnt really see an available Vet that looked compelling unless you’re talking about TRADING for one

I guess I jumped the gun. Looks like Jordan will be back in a few weeks or so. I’d just play my hand.

 

[OldSchool101]

While I didn't watch the Dolphins game last night, I just saw the play and news on Tua's concussion. Not that either injury was "good", but as a Packer fan, I am much less worried about the future of Jordan Love, than a Dolphin fan must be about Tua. Could be that Tua will be on the field quicker than Love, but how long is he going to last in the NFL before he decides his long term health is more important?

When I slowed that play down, it appeared the concussion was caused by the back of his head hitting the ground with a snap like force. I know we all had a good laugh about players maybe wearing those practice helmet pads during games, but JFC, something has to be done about the "protection" that the current helmet appears not to be providing.

At least it could be a remedy for a player that’s recently been in concussion protocol.

 

[OldSchool101]

The problem is the Packers win their games through offense. If they had a stout defense and great kicking game, losing the starting qb wouldn't be so devastating. Bottom line is Love needs to get back on the field ASAP. I just don't see the Packers winning more than one game if Love is out 3 or 4 weeks.

We shall see. Logically I would expect a brand new scheme to ramp up success as the season transpires. Thats not good in the short term, but our D did enough to Win by spotting our O the ball twice in Superb Field position. Had either of those O drives scored a TD instead of self inflicted penalties and stalled? That Brazil game was very likely a Win for GB. Had it been a Win I’m quite sure the tone about our D winning the Takeaway battle by +2 would be the story.

While +2 turnovers might not be a stud, it’s definitely going to increase our odds of winning if it happens again. We very nearly had 2 more takeaways if you recall. Nixon dropped one and J’aire dropped another that hit both hands. That should’ve been a
4-5 turnover performance. Gotta capitalize in the Redzone and our O was lackluster there. When your D gives you 3 turnovers one HAS to result in a TD if several are in enemy territory.

Imo. We are going to see more of this. Chunk plays given up… but also more turnovers than we’ve seen in recent past. Call it a more dynamic D rollercoaster ride.

 

[tynimiller]

While I didn't watch the Dolphins game last night, I just saw the play and news on Tua's concussion. Not that either injury was "good", but as a Packer fan, I am much less worried about the future of Jordan Love, than a Dolphin fan must be about Tua. Could be that Tua will be on the field quicker than Love, but how long is he going to last in the NFL before he decides his long term health is more important?

When I slowed that play down, it appeared the concussion was caused by the back of his head hitting the ground with a snap like force. I know we all had a good laugh about players maybe wearing those practice helmet pads during games, but JFC, something has to be done about the "protection" that the current helmet appears not to be providing.

I fear Tua just played his last NFL snap...and I strongly believe he ought to walk away. That young man has millions and is a literal time bomb of head injuries...it isn't worthy Tua. Not for a second is it worth it.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yup.

The crucial mistake by Gute was not taking care of the backup QB issue until the end of August. While I understand that he hoped that Clifford or Pratt would step up and be that guy. However, he already knew what he had in Clifford before Free agency and the draft. Putting all your eggs into a 7th round pick to fill that spot? Probably not wise.

Gute definitely got caught with his pants firmly around his ankles on this one, too bad he didn't learn by TT's mistakes that no matter how good your #1 QB is, your season may end up resting on the arm of your #2.

I'm not saying the season is over by any means, but having to start a QB with a few weeks under his belt with the playbook and the team, sure isn't the ideal situation for a team with Super Bowl aspirations.

This is so true. I’ve been near ostracized for putting weight on a QB2 in years past (not by you) However while it’s not important in a rebuild, it’s imperative on a playoff caliber team to invest in a #2 veteran. It’s a cost of doing business. 4-5 years ago I said like $5m should be allocated to get a good backup. Todays $ that’s probably up to $7mil

My argument is it’s of all backups. QB ranks easily top 2-3. Swing Tackle being another I’m not afraid to pay a guy $7mil if he’s legit good. Seasons are defined by those 2 positions.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is so true. I’ve been near ostracized for putting weight on a QB2 in years past (not by you) However while it’s not important in a rebuild, it’s imperative on a playoff caliber team to invest in a #2 veteran. It’s a cost of doing business. 4-5 years ago I said like $5m should be allocated to get a good backup. Todays $ that’s probably up to $7mil

My argument is it’s of all backups. QB ranks easily top 2-3. Swing Tackle being another I’m not afraid to pay a guy $7mil if he’s legit good. Seasons are defined by those 2 positions.

Yup...totally my philosophy and I was preaching it when Rodgers was QB. Just a quick look around the NFL at some of the best teams and many of them have quality #2 QB's.

I was just fine with Clifford being the backup last season, because it was a rebuild/test of Love season. However, if a team thinks that they are a legit Super Bowl team, then they need quality depth at every position, QB being THE most important one.

I can't think of one position, other than QB, where a team can be completely derailed by their best player at that position going down with an injury.

 

[Magooch]

I fear Tua just played his last NFL snap...and I strongly believe he ought to walk away. That young man has millions and is a literal time bomb of head injuries...it isn't worthy Tua. Not for a second is it worth it.

I agree. He needs to call it quits while he still has the capacity to do so.

That said as I understand it the way his contract is currently structured, *if* he is medically cleared and chooses to retire, he will forfeit something like 125m in guaranteed money. Of course he already has plenty of cash, but I suspect for a lot of people it'd be very very hard to give up that kind of money, even if it comes at great personal risk...

I have no idea how it would work out legally/financially but for situations like these I almost wish there was some sort of mechanism in place for where the league could step in and basically "mandate" his retirement and mediate some kind of injury settlement between the team and the player. Sometimes (really, a lot of the time) these guys need saved from themselves.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I fear Tua just played his last NFL snap...and I strongly believe he ought to walk away. That young man has millions and is a literal time bomb of head injuries...it isn't worthy Tua. Not for a second is it worth it.

Agree.

It wasn't even a hard hit/tackle, but the back of his head hit the turf square on.

With the amount of guaranteed and upfront money paid these days, guys like him are wise just to take the money and run.

Tua's deal included $167M guaranteed for injury, $43M of which has been paid in 2024. Now if he is medically cleared to play and walks away, there will be a legal battle for the unpaid amount of $124M. If doctors say he needs to retire, than the team will owe him that $124M.

Again, I won't get into the ungodly amounts here, except to say, that type of situation would be a crushing blow to the Dolphin franchise. Not just the loss of Tua, but the cap hits sustained.

 

[OOMPA Tailgate]

Well?

the biggest dud was the moron who wanted this game on a sub-standard field and allowed it to go on. I know that Rum is a biggie in Brazil and so is

Ayahuasca​

Well?

 

[OOMPA Tailgate]

Is Joe Barry available?

hope not

 

[Krabs]

Let's be honest though, realistically I see JL returning week 4 or 5 at the earliest. If JL returns earlier, it probably is a rush job (although 4-5 weeks will be rushing it) and can backfire really badly. We don't want another rush him back, only for him to get hurt worse, like they did with KD, let him heal.

We will see. I actually think they are targeting the MN game. I truly believe that this injury is nowhere near what they thought it was. There's no structural damage. I think it is more of a pain management thing and a swelling issue.

As a frame of reference:

x.com

x.com

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There's no structural damage. I think it is more of a pain management thing and a swelling issue.

I'd say if there isn't further risk of injury by playing, he will be back sooner, rather than later. Now if Malik Willis shocks the world and has a solid game on Sunday, that time frame might get expand out.

Pain can be managed, but mobility can't be manufactured. They won't play him until he can move around enough to protect himself.

 

[sschind]

We shall see. Logically I would expect a brand new scheme to ramp up success as the season transpires. Thats not good in the short term, but our D did enough to Win by spotting our O the ball twice in Superb Field position. Had either of those O drives scored a TD instead of self inflicted penalties and stalled? That Brazil game was very likely a Win for GB. Had it been a Win I’m quite sure the tone about our D winning the Takeaway battle by +2 would be the story.

While +2 turnovers might not be a stud, it’s definitely going to increase our odds of winning if it happens again. We very nearly had 2 more takeaways if you recall. Nixon dropped one and J’aire dropped another that hit both hands. That should’ve been a
4-5 turnover performance. Gotta capitalize in the Redzone and our O was lackluster there. When your D gives you 3 turnovers one HAS to result in a TD if several are in enemy territory.

Imo. We are going to see more of this. Chunk plays given up… but also more turnovers than we’ve seen in recent past. Call it a more dynamic D rollercoaster ride.

That's exactly what we were told to expect from the beginning and you are right, if the O had scored a TD on just one of those first two TOs I think its a different outcome.

What concerns me the most about this week is Taylor. After seeing what Barkley did Taylor scares me. After the way we contained Hurts I'm a little more relaxed on Richardson but we are at a disadvantage in this situation. We see what we did with Hurts and say lets just do that with Richardson but the Colts can see what we did and scheme to exploit it. Its kind of like halftime adjustments. If a team is getting knocked around in the first half they adjust what they have been doing but the team that has been doing the knocking around figures lets just keep on doing what we have been doing. You have to be able to adjust to the adjustments the other team makes.

 

[Half Empty]

Tua's deal included $167M guaranteed for injury, $43M of which has been paid in 2024. Now if he is medically cleared to play and walks away, there will be a legal battle for the unpaid amount of $124M. If doctors say he needs to retire, than the team will owe him that $124M.

I've often wondered why, if he ends up in a "play, or we take back (fill in the blank)" a guy like that doesn't just show up for work but throw the ball away anytime someone gets within 10 feet of him. He's certainly not looking to catch on with another team, and, if the money's that important, the shot to the ego shouldn't be a factor.