1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Sorry TT

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by dhpackr, Aug 19, 2007.

  1. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,635
    Ratings:
    +0
    yeah so what's the point?
     
  2. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    Sharp as a bowling ball.
     
  3. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,635
    Ratings:
    +0
    nice attack from a mod.
    sean jones :) sorry i do not read minds
    craig newsome :)
     
  4. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Ratings:
    +38
    Dhpacker wrote:

    [/quote]

    And Mike Sherman who somehow has something to do with Reggie White and Shawn Jones has nothing to do with the fate of the team or the quality of players he left behind.

    Okey Dokey.
     
  5. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,635
    Ratings:
    +0
    [dhpackr wrote:]

    I know that the Packers have not had a winning season in two years,since TT took over the Packers. so chew on that during your recess![/quote]
    OK Class
    seeing how Warhawk has not done his homework, will someone please school him.
    OK here goes
    I never said MS has anything to do with SEAN Jones, yes SEAN , or Reggie. I said the Packers have not had two bookend Defensive Ends like SEAN & Reggie untill MS brang Kampman & Jenkins to the Packers. Cullen Jenkins and Kampman which came from the MS years give us a chance to pressure the QB with just the front four, we haven't had that since Jones & White. These guys are not TT guys. We have not had these types of players at DE since Reggie & SEAN.
    does that make sence?
    WTF you smoking on recess?
     
  6. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,454
    Ratings:
    +6

    come on man damn... thats what were talkin about.

    do you know how many times we have discussed Ted Thompsons record and how much it means at this point. Come on pay attention... i know for a fact theres at least 20+ threads in the past where that topic has come up.

    and in those 20+ threads we have discussed every single detail... so if you think you have something to add... go read those threads first. IF by some random chance you can add something that hasnt been said a million times... come back and we will talk about it.
     
  7. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,454
    Ratings:
    +6

    more informed posting brought to you by DHPackr
     
  8. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,635
    Ratings:
    +0
    can you say, Obsession, the thread is done, I'm sure the mods will lock it out.
    and oh yeah,
    craig newsome :)
    peace out , go packers
     
  9. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,571
    Ratings:
    +650
    we haven't had a good old fashioned cat fight in quite some time. let it ride! RAWR!
     
  10. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,571
    Ratings:
    +650
    P.S. that "RAWR" is meant to be read phonetically, like a growl noise, not as an acronym such as LOL, or ROFL, or OMGICSTFLIFLIGSMP!!!!!
     
  11. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +0
    Simply put, Sherman inherited a talented, but aging team with a limited window to achieve success before player decline and roster turnover took their tool. He ammassed his lofty record in the year in-year out worst division in football for the better part of his tenure...and do not diminish this because division games are approximately 40% of the season. To that end, he played for the moment because he knew his window was closing. Sadly, his personal decisions stunk. Yes, he gave us Barnett, Kampmann, Jenkins and traded for Al Harris...all great moves...but he decimated any depth he had, and the future as well, by giving players away to take the likes of Donnell Washingtom, James Lee, and Hunter Hillenmeyer. While also drafting quality players and people such as those noted above, as well as Ahmad Carroll, Torrance Marshall (who was kept over Hunter because of higher draft status), Joey Thomas, etc. For the few quality players he brought in, there is a much higher number of turds/busts he brought in, usually at the ost of extra draft picks. And let us not even delve into his staff blunders, for they are glaring and numerous.

    TT inherited a team that was VERY OLD and lacking depth across the board. He has spent several years fixing Sherman's embarrassment of a roster. If you do not like the players TT has brought in, there is something seriously wrong with you. Wheras MS drafted athletes who dabbled in football for the 3 "Ps" (pussy, paycheck and parties), TT drafts guys who are ALL about football....who eat, breathe, sleep and dream of it.

    The scenarios under which these two men operated werevery different, and demanded different approaches to building the team. If all you want to do is consider the win records of the two, then you have a very simple minded approach to evaluating these two men...and there is absolutely nothing I or anyone else can say to open your brains to the many complexities that building a team, at significantly differentt stages of evolutuion, requires.

    The MS has more wins approach is equivalent to saying Ahmad Carroll is a better corner than Al Harris...he runs faster, jumps higher (and apparently gets higher) and has vastly superior athleticism...Ahmad would win EVERY straght up athletic challenge against Al. But yet, being a corner in the NFL is more than that. So is building a roster and straight up wins and losses...especially considering one guy started with a luxury sedan and the other a Yugo.
     
  12. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    If you read warhawks post you'd see Shawn instead of Sean. I was simply correcting it.

    I am NOT a mod. Considering AADP is, I am over qualified. (hah jk AADP :p)
     
  13. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    And i'm not even involved! Get the popcorn! [​IMG]
     
  14. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,635
    Ratings:
    +0
    OK, I never said MS was better than TT. I am saying that TT inherited a 10-6 team with some potential stars on offense and defense. Some of those players on offense, maybe, TT, should have thought of keeping some of these guys (wahle, walker)around, and try to put us over the top w/a f/a or two, instead of rebuilding the team.

    is the o line in 2007, better than the line in 2004? some say yes, i am not sure.

    coming into 2007 TT has a 12-20 record, if he loses again this year, does he come back for a fourth year? I guess so, but if TT puts together 4 straight years without posting a winning record. has TT failed?

    TT can draft depth on a team, can he sign a key free agent to put the Packers over the top and compete for a superbowl? I am not sure, the team looks solid on defense, but w/a HOF QB, we have experience at 1 skill position on offense.

    Could TT done a better job of bringinig in a F/A on offense to give the Packers a weapon, b/c after all a red zone threat was a major weakness on last years team. yes . I believe so.
    that's my point, if you think i am stupid, hate the packers, or want to fight me, whatever.
    enjoy the popcorn, the show, and oh yeah, who am i fighting with again?
    i thought i was on a football forum where people discuss football.
    silly me!
    peace out
    GO PACKERS
     
  15. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,571
    Ratings:
    +650
    relax. it was a joke, playing to the fact that things were getting a little too tense. basically the same thing you said at the end of this post.
     
  16. Popcynical

    Popcynical Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    519
    Ratings:
    +0
    The thing is.. now that TT 'rebuilt' most of the team, we're a lot younger than we were in '04. Including our 0line. This means we'll be able to compete at a higher level for a longer amount of time.

    I don't know about you, but I'm pretty stoked about the future and the years to come. We may not be a Superbowl contender right now, but we're not far off, either.
     
  17. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +0
    This team is set to make big steps, and explode in the next year or two....and then be very good for a long time, provided TT continues to show similar prowess in the draft.
     
  18. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Ratings:
    +38
    Ah, the age old question of should have TT went for it and picked up a couple of players to make a run? Intreging question.

    Except it had no chance.

    First of all TT would have had to stick a fork in at least one if not more decent players to keep Wahle in order to recapture cap dollars as we were broke. We were at 1.9 mil and it would have taken it all plus some.

    We couldn't afford to lose any decent players. We were already lost depth wise. We had no one that could come into a game and compete on the NFL level behind a starter. I mean nobody.

    You KNOW people are going to get hurt. A playoff team can sustain a few injuries because their roster is DEEP. Look back. We had nothing.

    On a team that defensively stood no realistic chance of any kind in any playoff picture. Simply put that defense would have got taken to the wood shed by any good playoff team.

    Look at all the work that has been done over the last two years to get a defense on the field that could actually hold it's own in a playoff setting. There's no way TT could have gotten close to this that fast.

    I know there are those pissed at TT for not keeping Wahle and Walker and trying for some kind of run. We are two years later now and at least fifteen players better than we were and still working to get there.

    I think that tells me we were just to far off for anything like that to realistically take place and trying would have probably put us back like a San Francisco who finally ran out of talent and couldn't buy a winning season for like ten years now.

    It would have been a hell of a risk and a hell of a price to pay thereafter.
     
  19. MassPackersFan

    MassPackersFan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Messages:
    803
    Ratings:
    +0
    nice post? Did you mean that or are you hatin' me for sincerely liking this team 100% more than the team we had 2 years ago? :)
     
  20. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    I always felt Sherman inherited a good team, and did little with it. Yes, they won some games, but the playoffs stunk.
    TT had to try to rebuild an over the hill club, and my opinion is he is doing a pretty good job so far. Some people that thought he was nuts have back tracked on their opinion. Which i honestly respect them VERY much for doing so. If TT proves to be a big mistake in the end, i would admit so.
    As they say, "Rome wasn't built in a day" and it takes time to build a strong football team too. I don't "love" OR "hate" TT.........i just see the moves he has made so far as being better then average. NO GM hits on all their picks, but he seems to be doing pretty good so far. (IMO)
     
  21. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Ratings:
    +38
    You shoulda maybe stopped when you were ahead.
     
  22. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,454
    Ratings:
    +6
    haha your right bozz we havent.. this was just like old times... all the same perps cept a few.

    you bring pyle and depack in here and i might get real interesting.
     
  23. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    and by being ahead he means Sep 12, 2005
     
  24. RainX

    RainX Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    230
    Ratings:
    +13
    To anyone who thinks this team wouldn't have been 4-12 in 2005 had Mike Sherman remained GM is deluding themselves.

    You could clearly see the writing on the wall for Sherman's team as we got into 2004. Anyone remember that 1-4 start? Yeah, we finished 10-6, but we overpowered some cupcake opponents the second half of the season to win the division. Then come playoff time, we get embarrassed at home AGAIN in the playoffs (something that started becoming common place under Sherm), by Minnesota no less, in the Wild Card round. And even had we won that game, did anyone think that '04 team had any chance against Philly? Especially considering how they had stomped a mudhole in our *** courtesy of a 35-0 halftime lead during the regular season.

    Mike Sherman built us a fantastic, playoff calibur offense during his tenure. That offensive line was one of the best in the league. Ahman Green was in his prime and a pretty solid receiving corp once Javon hit his stride along side Donald Driver.

    The defense was another story entirely. It literally fell apart under his tenure. He inherited a relatively average defense in 2001 and by the time he was relieved of his GM duties by Harlan in early '05, it was one of the worst in the league. You aren't going to win many playoff games with a defense as bad as the Packers had. This was the major problem with Sherman's Packers. Great offense, little or no defense and special teams. His teams were good enough to win a mediocre division 3 years in a row, but come playoff time, were beaten by superior opponents. There's a reason he never made it past the divisional round.

    Thompson was handed a completely different team then Sherman acquired. He literally had to overhaul the roster because he knew, as it stood, wasn't going to win come playoff time. Do any of you honestly think, had he went nutz in FA in '05 or '06, mortgaging the future like Sherman had, bringing in one or two high priced free agents, that this team was going to win a SB? You're off your damn rocker if you do. It might've given us another win or two, but the team literally had no depth on it. I don't think it's to hard to remember that NFL Europe calibur offense we were fielding by the end of the '05 season due to injury. One or two high priced FAs probably wouldn't have made much of a difference that season.

    I give TT credit. In two years, he's done a pretty good job of overhauling the roster. For the first time, I see the "potential" of a playoff calibur team forming. Sure, he's made a few questionable choices here and there, but all GMs make mistakes on occasion. Anyone who prefered Mike Sherman as GM to TT either couldn't see the big picture of what REALLY was going on in the earlier part of this decade, or just can't see past Wins and Loses.

    Sure let's go ahead and blow all our cap space during free agency. That's really doing Washington a lot of good.

    Other than the Javon Walker fiasco, Thompson has kept the few valuable players Sherman brought in on the Packers. It's nice to see us being able to retain our good players. Something sound salary cap management can do for a team.
     
  25. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,454
    Ratings:
    +6

    BA-ZING!
     

Share This Page