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http://www.jsonline.com/packer/news/dec05/375901.asp
As the prophet Lambeau once said: "It's the talent, stupid".
As the prophet Lambeau once said: "It's the talent, stupid".
Something to chew on
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DePack
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Turnovers are always the key.
digsthepack
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I don't know of many posters are discounting the impact that injuries have had on the team this season.....it is obviously huge. But, some of us are more than willing to look at the bigger picture and look at how the talent available is being used, and how games are being managed with the availale talent against a specific opponent, noting how the players are still playing hard in spite of the injuries and record.
Taking in the bigger picture, and not blaming EVERYTHING on injuries, I have come to believe that there is far more going on with this team than the injuries. Injuries are but a stone dropped in a lake. A coach cannot stop the rock from being dropped, but he must handle the ripples that it sends throughout the organization. I don't believe this HC has navigated the ripples well.
Yor are now free to roam the world, Grasshopper.
Taking in the bigger picture, and not blaming EVERYTHING on injuries, I have come to believe that there is far more going on with this team than the injuries. Injuries are but a stone dropped in a lake. A coach cannot stop the rock from being dropped, but he must handle the ripples that it sends throughout the organization. I don't believe this HC has navigated the ripples well.
Yor are now free to roam the world, Grasshopper.
DePack
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c'mon digs....how is Andy Reid handling those ripples? Should he be fired? Or is the grass really greener on the other side?
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(excerpt from the article...)
"Some of it is the result of maybe sitting on a receiver or jumping on a route because they feel like that's where we want to go with the ball, or it's a tipped ball," Rossley said. "Or maybe it's a pressure and he's got somebody fast in his face and he has to get the ball out quick. We never always put the interception on the quarterback. It's an 11-plus-coaches problem."
Some interceptions are the fault of the receiver, the protection, a failure to attack the defense, timing and the quarterback. Coaches say an observer can't judge by the throw without knowing the play or the route, because some throws are to a spot, others are to a receiver.
"We take responsibility for every interception," Franklin said about his receivers group. "If the ball is thrown, we should either catch the ball or, if it's about to be intercepted, it's our job to break it up. Every time the ball is in the air, it's our job to make sure we come down with it or nobody does."
That is definitely one area where the Packers sorely miss Walker.
"Javon Walker, that's one of his strengths," Franklin said. "His strength in his game is outjumping people and snatching the ball out of the air. That's a little bit of a factor. You don't have a guy that that's his type of strength.
"Ferguson and Driver do it, too, but is that their game? No. If I had to say one thing that Javon did well, it would be that: taking the ball out of the air."
Interesting...to me this seems to be saying the playcalling...or lack of talent at the receiving position is tipping off the other teams..Rossley says as much in his quote.....(teams no when they've got a less talented or inexperience receiver playing...and they can defend them differently..more aggressively..then say..a Javon Walker..or Driver who could burn the DB's for this and make them pay...)
Also...When you are in the red zone it is harder to score...ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE NFL CALIBER RECEIVERS WHO KNOW HOW TO GET OPEN DOWN THERE AND FIGHT FOR A FOOTBALL.....
Should make some of you Favre bashers rethink your positions a little bit...about what's going on out there....shouldn't it?
"Some of it is the result of maybe sitting on a receiver or jumping on a route because they feel like that's where we want to go with the ball, or it's a tipped ball," Rossley said. "Or maybe it's a pressure and he's got somebody fast in his face and he has to get the ball out quick. We never always put the interception on the quarterback. It's an 11-plus-coaches problem."
Some interceptions are the fault of the receiver, the protection, a failure to attack the defense, timing and the quarterback. Coaches say an observer can't judge by the throw without knowing the play or the route, because some throws are to a spot, others are to a receiver.
"We take responsibility for every interception," Franklin said about his receivers group. "If the ball is thrown, we should either catch the ball or, if it's about to be intercepted, it's our job to break it up. Every time the ball is in the air, it's our job to make sure we come down with it or nobody does."
That is definitely one area where the Packers sorely miss Walker.
"Javon Walker, that's one of his strengths," Franklin said. "His strength in his game is outjumping people and snatching the ball out of the air. That's a little bit of a factor. You don't have a guy that that's his type of strength.
"Ferguson and Driver do it, too, but is that their game? No. If I had to say one thing that Javon did well, it would be that: taking the ball out of the air."
Interesting...to me this seems to be saying the playcalling...or lack of talent at the receiving position is tipping off the other teams..Rossley says as much in his quote.....(teams no when they've got a less talented or inexperience receiver playing...and they can defend them differently..more aggressively..then say..a Javon Walker..or Driver who could burn the DB's for this and make them pay...)
Also...When you are in the red zone it is harder to score...ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE NFL CALIBER RECEIVERS WHO KNOW HOW TO GET OPEN DOWN THERE AND FIGHT FOR A FOOTBALL.....
Should make some of you Favre bashers rethink your positions a little bit...about what's going on out there....shouldn't it?
digsthepack
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Andy Reid has not spent the last 4 years losing games to terribly inferior opponents....Sherman manages at least 1 or 2 a year. Team is dead out the chute...they play poorly and then lose.
Andy Reid is also without his franchise QB...we still have ours.
Andy Reid has managed his team in such a fashion that anyone who watches will attest that the team has gotten consistently better during his tenure....even with constant roster turnover and loss of key players. Under Sherman, he righted a listing ship but since has managed only flatlining and more recently decline.
Hey, agree to disagree. I have given Sherman the benefit of my doubt the last 3 seasons. I see no improvement, rather I see decline....even before the injuries set in.
Andy Reid is also without his franchise QB...we still have ours.
Andy Reid has managed his team in such a fashion that anyone who watches will attest that the team has gotten consistently better during his tenure....even with constant roster turnover and loss of key players. Under Sherman, he righted a listing ship but since has managed only flatlining and more recently decline.
Hey, agree to disagree. I have given Sherman the benefit of my doubt the last 3 seasons. I see no improvement, rather I see decline....even before the injuries set in.
DePack
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Tell that to eagle fans. Sorry, my man but I am hearing the same things here about Reid that you are saying about Sherman. I'm not saying they are the same....just what I'm hearing. BTW...I'm not comparing you to an eagle fan, only pointing out the "grass/greener" aspect of it all.
digsthepack
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The thing about MS that bothers me so much is his abject inability to pull games out. Get's a lead at halftime, you see a very different, much more conservative team play the second half not to lose...which often results in losing. Poor gameplans and in-game decision making only compound the problem.
The cronysim is killing this team. How many years did we endure Frankie "My Friend" Novak as special teams hack? How many years must we watch our offense be so completely erratic under the guidance of Tom" My Pal" Rossley? Should we have to endure the possibility of the no-competition hire of people like Bob "My Chum" Slowik?
Too many of the decisions that Sherman has made in the hiring of coordinators and assistants have had more to do with keeping personal friends employed than doing what is best for the team, IMHO. I do not think it is conscious on Sherman's part, I just believe he has a hard time being honest with himself with regard to his cronies performance...or particularly their lack of...excessive loyalty perhaps. Hell, Novak was retained WITH SALARY for 2 seasons as a consultant to new coach Joe Bonamego...given his performance record, what the hell could Novak impart upon anyone as a consultant.
Just too much **** with this staff for my comfort.
The cronysim is killing this team. How many years did we endure Frankie "My Friend" Novak as special teams hack? How many years must we watch our offense be so completely erratic under the guidance of Tom" My Pal" Rossley? Should we have to endure the possibility of the no-competition hire of people like Bob "My Chum" Slowik?
Too many of the decisions that Sherman has made in the hiring of coordinators and assistants have had more to do with keeping personal friends employed than doing what is best for the team, IMHO. I do not think it is conscious on Sherman's part, I just believe he has a hard time being honest with himself with regard to his cronies performance...or particularly their lack of...excessive loyalty perhaps. Hell, Novak was retained WITH SALARY for 2 seasons as a consultant to new coach Joe Bonamego...given his performance record, what the hell could Novak impart upon anyone as a consultant.
Just too much **** with this staff for my comfort.
Chamuko
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digsthepack said:
Well said Diggs !!!!!
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To me it's a combination of so many things, that you can't point your finger to just one thing.
Favre throws a bad interception before the half that turned the game around. Granted, he should have thrown it away or in the dirt. But if the talent at guard would be better, a D-lineman might not have pushed our O-line into Fisher, and Favre would have carried out the shovel pass to Fisher which was called on that play before it fell apart and Favre ad-libbed the broken play. So in some ways the talent level has lead to the mistakes and losses.
Other times the penalties have put them in a hole or taken away good gains. I can understand some penalties, but it seems like we get so many stupid ones that put us in a hole. False start penalties by Clifton bother me. For a veteran who is supposed to be one of the better tackles, I don't think he should be committing as many penalties as he does. Maybe it's not as many I think, but at times it seems like those types of penalties have stalled drives for the Packers.
Injuries have hurt, but aging talent in some spots, inexperienced youth in others, and penalties have hurt just as much.
Favre throws a bad interception before the half that turned the game around. Granted, he should have thrown it away or in the dirt. But if the talent at guard would be better, a D-lineman might not have pushed our O-line into Fisher, and Favre would have carried out the shovel pass to Fisher which was called on that play before it fell apart and Favre ad-libbed the broken play. So in some ways the talent level has lead to the mistakes and losses.
Other times the penalties have put them in a hole or taken away good gains. I can understand some penalties, but it seems like we get so many stupid ones that put us in a hole. False start penalties by Clifton bother me. For a veteran who is supposed to be one of the better tackles, I don't think he should be committing as many penalties as he does. Maybe it's not as many I think, but at times it seems like those types of penalties have stalled drives for the Packers.
Injuries have hurt, but aging talent in some spots, inexperienced youth in others, and penalties have hurt just as much.
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Too many injuries and terrible penalties are the two key areas that I see as having caused us the most problems. Good thing are D has been improved by Bates or I would hate to see what some of the scores would have been like. Just my Opinion.
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