So Quick....

OP
OP
W

warhawk

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
1,922
Reaction score
17
Location
Gulf Shores, Al
I am going to be very curious to see the posts by many in here when Spitz, Colledge, Jennings, Hawk, Hodge, Blackmon, Collins, Manuel, and Co. are out there kicking butts and making major contributions to our winning ways.

Crow, by the way, is not very tasty.

Digs, you hit the nail on the head there buddy.
 

TomAllen

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
365
Reaction score
0
The problem is that you're supposed to draft vets who can contribute. Like New England and Denver seems to do.

That was Sherman's problem, and it appears to be TT's as well.

(We'll see in the future though. It works both ways Warhawk, and you might just have to dine on that particular dish yourself.)
 

digsthepack

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,486
Reaction score
0
It is kinda obvious to me. When TT arrived, we had one starting LB worth keeping, bad secondary (Ahmad Carrol and, gulp....Joey Thomas, Mark Roman), a few deecent rotational type DL players, an aging and/or expensive interior O line with no depth, 2 decent WRs..one of whom is gone, some decent TEs who, oddly, were ignored for several years, and a decent backfield. All of which lacked any depth.

Yeah...that will be turned around in 1 - 2 years!!
 
OP
OP
W

warhawk

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
1,922
Reaction score
17
Location
Gulf Shores, Al
TomAllen said:
The problem is that you're supposed to draft vets who can contribute. Like New England and Denver seems to do.

That was Sherman's problem, and it appears to be TT's as well.

(We'll see in the future though. It works both ways Warhawk, and you might just have to dine on that particular dish yourself.)

Let's not jump the gun here. Drafting players that become valuable vets is important and TT's ability to do so cannot be assessed until the players he drafts become vets.

Again. So quick to judge.

People all over TT in regards to WR's. He addressed that position in the second round last year and the guy was doing great. Progressing and contributing more each week.

His injury was a major setback. The position would be looking much better if he was here. Did he make a bad pick? No.

Poppy,Manning, Collins. I'll take those guys over Sherman's picks any day. They are football players.

I won't get into this years draft as Sherman was never in the position to do what TT could do this year. I am thankful, however, it was TT calling the shots and not MS. That's for sure.
 

pyledriver80

Cheesehead
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
0
warhawk said:
To give BF the support he needed we would have had to pull two guards out of a hat for one. Other than Hutchinson there just hasn't been those guys available. We've all been looking for this for a year and a half and they just haven't been there.


* Maybe you forgot Pudge'spost where he listed several guys who TT could have brought in. Let's try again


Trey Teague - starter in Denver and Buffalo at C and LT. Can play all 5 OL positions. Knows the blocking scheme well and could have easily pushed for a starting job at any of the interior spots.

Barry Stokes - utility backup for the Falcons in '05, starter for the Browns in previous years. Someone Jagz knew and could have easily filled in as a starter at LG or RG.

Jon Goodwin - played some zone blocking with the Jets, and could have pushed for a starting spot at C or G.

Bob Hallen - same as Goodwin, except a lot of experience in Chargers zone schemes.

Steve Neal - Pats don't exactly play the same scheme, but adapting one of their blockers to the scheme is not hard since they are similar. A tough run blcoker at RG.

Rex Tucker - knows the scheme from his days in St. Louis. A decent starter there and in Chicago.

Then I will add


Jonathen Goodwin - Started all 16 games for the Jets last year

Bennie Anderson - Started all 16 Games for the Ravens last year

Rick DeMulling - Played Tackle last year but played 2 years of Guard at Idaho


Carlisle Cooper - A 16 Game starter for the DENVER BRONCOS last year. Knows the system as he has played in it for 6 years

Mike Compton - A solid vet in the NFL for 12 years

Kyle Koseir - Played consistently at three positions on the offensive line in three seasons with San Francisco


Cosey Coleman - A 16 game starter 4 times in his careeer





Now, let the "these guys are marginal journeymen" excuses begin.

If they are superstars - "They commanded to much money"
If they are average, solid starters - "These guys are journeyman"


Kind of makes me laugh. Seems that some of you like to think TT had no other option but to start 2 rookie guards, even though most know otherwise.

* EDITED BY A-DAP - Keep cool pyle. :)
 

DakotaT

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
810
Reaction score
0
Location
Bismarck North Dakota
pyledriver80 said:
warhawk said:
To give BF the support he needed we would have had to pull two guards out of a hat for one. Other than Hutchinson there just hasn't been those guys available. We've all been looking for this for a year and a half and they just haven't been there.


* Maybe you forgot Pudge'spost where he listed several guys who TT could have brought in. Let's try again


Trey Teague - starter in Denver and Buffalo at C and LT. Can play all 5 OL positions. Knows the blocking scheme well and could have easily pushed for a starting job at any of the interior spots.

Barry Stokes - utility backup for the Falcons in '05, starter for the Browns in previous years. Someone Jagz knew and could have easily filled in as a starter at LG or RG.

Jon Goodwin - played some zone blocking with the Jets, and could have pushed for a starting spot at C or G.

Bob Hallen - same as Goodwin, except a lot of experience in Chargers zone schemes.

Steve Neal - Pats don't exactly play the same scheme, but adapting one of their blockers to the scheme is not hard since they are similar. A tough run blcoker at RG.

Rex Tucker - knows the scheme from his days in St. Louis. A decent starter there and in Chicago.

Then I will add


Jonathen Goodwin - Started all 16 games for the Jets last year

Bennie Anderson - Started all 16 Games for the Ravens last year

Rick DeMulling - Played Tackle last year but played 2 years of Guard at Idaho


Carlisle Cooper - A 16 Game starter for the DENVER BRONCOS last year. Knows the system as he has played in it for 6 years

Mike Compton - A solid vet in the NFL for 12 years

Kyle Koseir - Played consistently at three positions on the offensive line in three seasons with San Francisco


Cosey Coleman - A 16 game starter 4 times in his careeer





Now, let the "these guys are marginal journeymen" excuses begin.

If they are superstars - "They commanded to much money"
If they are average, solid starters - "These guys are journeyman"


Kind of makes me laugh. Seems that some of you like to think TT had no other option but to start 2 rookie guards, even though most know otherwise.

* EDITED BY A-DAP - Keep cool pyle. )
Pyle,

When did TT start coaching the Packers?

Sherman an Beightol had the wrong lineup in all year. Reugemer should have been playing RG, White at center, Wells at LG. Flanagan should have been icing his groin on the sidelines.
 

retiredgrampa

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
804
Reaction score
0
Location
phoenix AZ
Pyledriver80. Good research job there. I had no idea these guys were available. IMO, TT decided that with the current situation, though, that the way to prepare for the future was to start fresh with mostly new faces. This means, of course, a longer learning curve, and a lot of disappointed fans at first. He knew the situation on the OL and chose to go with guys who had been exposed to the zone system in college. Unfortunately, that means 300# OL trying to fend off 340# DTs. No mean feat. It has exposed Colledge as not yet ready and wisely has been seated on the bench. He may not be the last to meet that fate. But Colledge will rise again, no doubt in my mind. Now Moll has been given a golden opportunity suddenly. He will now "up" his efforts to keep his spot. What I "see" is a group of guys with new vision of the real NFL. I expect to see a new spirit emerging on our OL this Saturday. On the D I expect to see Hawk and Hodge pouring it on to "rebuild" their images. We will have a bit more confidence in our team on Sunday morning.
 
OP
OP
W

warhawk

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
1,922
Reaction score
17
Location
Gulf Shores, Al
First of all those in here that refer to TT as Tightwad Teddy would slam 90% of those you named and referred to the move as a "typical" TT solution.

Secondly, we were discussing an alternative path TT might have taken( a few moves) giving us a chance now while BF is still around to make the playoffs.

I highly doubt that these names constitute the "few moves" necessary to put the Packers in that position.

Of course, then again, some here feel the defense is "o.k." and would have been good enough because after all we were #1 against the pass last year.
 

cheesey

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 25, 2005
Messages
1,000
Reaction score
3
Location
Wisconsin
warhawk said:
First of all those in here that refer to TT as Tightwad Teddy would slam 90% of those you named and referred to the move as a "typical" TT solution.

Secondly, we were discussing an alternative path TT might have taken( a few moves) giving us a chance now while BF is still around to make the playoffs.

I highly doubt that these names constitute the "few moves" necessary to put the Packers in that position.

Of course, then again, some here feel the defense is "o.k." and would have been good enough because after all we were #1 against the pass last year.

I couldn't have said it better warhawk!
 

pyledriver80

Cheesehead
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
0
warhawk said:
First of all those in here that refer to TT as Tightwad Teddy would slam 90% of those you named and referred to the move as a "typical" TT solution.

Nice, a new excuse. Still does not answer the question of why these guys were not looked at or broughtin. Keep Dodging

Secondly, we were discussing an alternative path TT might have taken( a few moves) giving us a chance now while BF is still around to make the playoffs.

Yeah and guys blocking for Brett wouldn't help huh.

I highly doubt that these names constitute the "few moves" necessary to put the Packers in that position.

Get real, I guess you think having no O-Line and seeing Brett run for his life is OK, I choose otherwise. Veteran guys would have kept Brett safe and increased the chances of winning. It also allows the young guys to sit and learn behind some knowledgable, experienced guys, you know, like most NFL teams do. This increases the chances of winning this year and has little, if any effect on the future.

Of course, then again, some here feel the defense is "o.k." and would have been good enough because after all we were #1 against the pass last year.


Yeah, the Defense is improved. People bash Sherman for focusing solely on the offense and ignoring the Defense YET TT has not done anything for the offense while continually improving the Defense. Oh wait, he brought in Mark Boerighter, please!
 

krd005

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Messages
139
Reaction score
0
Location
South Bend
Those of you who wish to give TT 3-4 years are crazy. His job is to win games now not in three years from now.

I was told By a poster here last year that football is a business...well in my business I haven't gotten anything close to a 4 year plan! So why should he?

I wish him the best because I don't want to watch a poor team but I also will hold him accountable!
 

pyledriver80

Cheesehead
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
0
krd005 said:
Those of you who wish to give TT 3-4 years are crazy. His job is to win games now not in three years from now.

I was told By a poster here last year that football is a business...well in my business I haven't gotten anything close to a 4 year plan! So why should he?

I wish him the best because I don't want to watch a poor team but I also will hold him accountable!


I agree KRD. I'm going to go to my boss tommorrow and tell him that in 3-4 years I will start doing a good job. Until then however, I might do some "stupid things" but he shouldn't worry because in 3-4 years I will get it all together.
 
OP
OP
W

warhawk

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
1,922
Reaction score
17
Location
Gulf Shores, Al
Well Pyle, it's apparant you have bought in completely to MS's philosophy of Stop Gap shopping to pick up players to hold us upright and keep that not quite attainable dream alive.

Talk about dodging. Geez.

The fact that Ms didn't do anything with the defense for years kind of made TT's job a lttle broader in nature don't you think?

I don't know but maybe it's asking a lot to fill about 12 positions of need all at once.
 

digsthepack

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,486
Reaction score
0
Business, huh, KRD? Well, let me tell you about my business. Intorduced a product several years ago that had obvious performance and labor saving benefits over the old system that was used to insulate the interior of masonry walls in commercial applications such as Target stores, schools, etc. You would thing these demonstrative benefits (literally did the stuff with the contractors to prove its merit) would lead people to line up tomorrow and change their evil ways. Nope! The key is to change long established attitudes, habits and comfort levels before this product could take hold. It took almost 3 years for these attitudinal changes to be complete. And now it is the market leader. With any substantial change, whether it be sports teams, or widgets, there will be an incubatiion period before it runs on its own.

You do not just walk in and shake it down to the foundation in a month and impose that type of change overnight.
 

TomAllen

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
365
Reaction score
0
PyleDriver said..

Get real, I guess you think having no O-Line and seeing Brett run for his life is OK, I choose otherwise. Veteran guys would have kept Brett safe and increased the chances of winning. It also allows the young guys to sit and learn behind some knowledgable, experienced guys, you know, like most NFL teams do. This increases the chances of winning this year and has little, if any effect on the future.

This is the most sound, logical thought that I've seen on this forum in awhile. "Like most teams do". What most teams (or all teams) do not do is try to go into the season starting 2 rookies on their offensive line.

(That is really reckless and downright suicidal. But there you have it.)

But I guess it's the best TT could have done since you all seem to think that there was no one else available in the NFL.

Believe that, and I've got some swampland down in FLA that I'd like to sell you...
 

krd005

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Messages
139
Reaction score
0
Location
South Bend
digsthepack said:
Business, huh, KRD? Well, let me tell you about my business. Intorduced a product several years ago that had obvious performance and labor saving benefits over the old system that was used to insulate the interior of masonry walls in commercial applications such as Target stores, schools, etc. You would thing these demonstrative benefits (literally did the stuff with the contractors to prove its merit) would lead people to line up tomorrow and change their evil ways. Nope! The key is to change long established attitudes, habits and comfort levels before this product could take hold. It took almost 3 years for these attitudinal changes to be complete. And now it is the market leader. With any substantial change, whether it be sports teams, or widgets, there will be an incubatiion period before it runs on its own.

You do not just walk in and shake it down to the foundation in a month and impose that type of change overnight.


I bet you had other area's of the business that kept you afloat during the 4 yr time frame.

I also bet you a plan...a workable plan.

I don't think football teams have the same luxury. Although I guess the Hall Of Fame and Pro Shop might be able to buy another year of losing???
 

DePack

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,904
Reaction score
1
Location
Newark, Delaware
I expect the Packers to have a winning record this year. Otherwise get rid of the coach and GM. Afterall that's what we did the first year our last coach had a losing record, right?
 

Packnic

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
2,454
Reaction score
6
Location
Salisbury, NC
warhawk said:
Well Pyle, it's apparant you have bought in completely to MS's philosophy of Stop Gap shopping to pick up players to hold us upright and keep that not quite attainable dream alive.

Talk about dodging. Geez.

The fact that Ms didn't do anything with the defense for years kind of made TT's job a lttle broader in nature don't you think?

I don't know but maybe it's asking a lot to fill about 12 positions of need all at once.

you gotta remember he lives in Pyleland

where filling in 12 positions of need at once... is a simple mundane task, that can be completed on a monday. Money is no object and then the unicorns..... well , you know the rest. Tis a magical place thats for sure.
 

Packnic

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
2,454
Reaction score
6
Location
Salisbury, NC
DePack said:
I expect the Packers to have a winning record this year. Otherwise get rid of the coach and GM. Afterall that's what we did the first year our last coach had a losing record, right?


HOLY ****... this is truly unbelievable.

PyleLand population : 3
 

pyledriver80

Cheesehead
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
0
Packnic, you are obsessed with me, I love it. Trom #2!

I thought there were only 5 positions on the O-line in which we have 3 filled. All I ask is that TT fill em, guess he was to incompetent.

Again, I gave you a list of 15-20 guys who were all not HIGH PRICED, and AGAIN, you failed to read it.
 

DePack

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,904
Reaction score
1
Location
Newark, Delaware
Packnic said:
DePack said:
I expect the Packers to have a winning record this year. Otherwise get rid of the coach and GM. Afterall that's what we did the first year our last coach had a losing record, right?


HOLY ****... this is truly unbelievable.

PyleLand population : 3

What's the problem nic? Do we have better talent than say two years ago, when we were 10-6? If not than TT should be gone. He's been gathering this talent for two years now. If so, why shouldn't we have at least a 10-6 record again?


Sorry if this logic escapes you.

I can now expect a barrage of nasty PM's again since I've embarassed you!!
 

krd005

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Messages
139
Reaction score
0
Location
South Bend
pyledriver80 said:
Packnic, you are obsessed with me, I love it. Trom #2!

I thought there were only 5 positions on the O-line in which we have 3 filled. All I ask is that TT fill em, guess he was to incompetent.

Again, I gave you a list of 15-20 guys who were all not HIGH PRICED, and AGAIN, you failed to read it.

TT would rather have young guys with bad technique than any of those, can you blame him???? Kidding of course.

TT is smart enough to know he has this year and the following before his job is in danger!!!
 

Members online

Latest posts

Top