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Sitton is at peace from last season

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by longtimefan, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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  2. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

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    Maybe Josh realized he gets to keep the $6.4mil from last year, win or lose.
     
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  3. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I think his initial statement held true for many players and fans alike after such an emotional let down of a game and being minutes away from what looked like a sure trip to the SuperBowl. But once the smoke cleared and the pain of the loss was less, the good times and high moments from the season could be remembered and used for motivation of what everyone is predicting to be a special 2015.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I´m still not completely over the loss to the Seahawks in the NFCCG. While the pain has significantly subsided over the last few months letting a chance like that slip away will alway hurt a little bit as teams normally don´t get a ton of them.
     
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  5. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Agreed Captain. I don't think many Packer fans will ever forget that loss, but the sting of it lessens with time. It sure helped to push the painful memories of the 2008 NFC Championship OT loss to the Giants back a bit. Or the infamous "4th and 26 game" against the Eagles. Even the pain of the Fail Mary game faded a bit after that last loss :)

    I love when the Packers win, but win or loose, games like those as well as the memorable wins, will always remind us why we love watching each and every game so much.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
  6. Curly Calhoun

    Curly Calhoun Cheesehead

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    I think, if anything, the Packers learned that the Seahawks are far from unbeatable, even in Seattle. This should give them confidence - and resolve.

    It's where they go from here that matters.
     
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  7. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I have to admit that I didn´t have a lot of love left for anything at the end of that game. ;)
     
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  8. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Below is a link to the Demovsky article referenced in that blog. It talks a little more about Sitton's injury. I don't think there's anything surprising about Sitton's comments after the game or the hurt of that loss subsiding. The bigger issue IMO is the injury: I wonder if it will fully heal or if post season surgery would have been a better option? That's a moot point now so I just hope it heals completely.
    http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-p...-josh-sitton-makes-his-peace-with-last-season

    On a side note, has your opinion of James Campen changed over the past season or two? With the deserved accolades the Packers OL has been receiving, has Campen gotten smarter lately?
     
  9. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I think it's awfully tough for a fan to make an educated guess about the work of a positional coach. I like the fact that pass protection has significantly improved and Campen probably deserves some credit for it.
     
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  10. Curly Calhoun

    Curly Calhoun Cheesehead

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    I think one of the things that are crucial to an offensive line's success is consistency. Green Bay had the same five starters all season long, something injuries prevented in previous seasons. Even with a rookie center, having the same five guys line up at the same position every week was huge for them. That will make your offensive line coach look a little smarter.
     
  11. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Last year was Campen's 8th as head offensive line coach. According to Football Outsiders offensive line stats:

    In his 8 years, he has fielded lines that are better than average in run blocking 3 times: 5th in 2013, 8th in 2014, and 9th in 2009. His line ranked 16 th in 2011. His other lines ranked 19 (2008) 23 (2010) 25 (2012) and 26(2007).

    So his average run blocking lines rank ~16th in the league over his tenure.

    Pass blocking: 3 lines have been better than average: 1 (2007) 13(2014) and 14 (2008). His other lines 21(2010) 23(2011) 26(2013) 30 (2009) and 31 (2012) have been in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

    Average pass blocking has been ranked ~ 20th during his tenure.

    Last year his line was better than average in both run and pass blocking for the first time in his 8 years.

    New England, in comparison, ranks 2.6th in the league in run blocking; 7.7th in pass blocking over the same period. Their run blocking has never ranked lower than 5th. Their pass blocking ranked out of the top 10 only once--26th in 2008 when Brady missed virtually the entire season.

    I don't think it's fair to say he's any smarter, or dumber, since he became the head offensive line coach. Some coaches are able to take players year after year and make them better than average; or even elite. I don't think Campen's one of them.
     
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  12. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Let's be realistic about the clay Campen was given to work with. He's had a few pretty good players in Sitton and Lang, and Balaga is good but consistently injured, and the rest have been average or below. I'm not calling him a genius by any stretch but it's not an easy task to coach average lines into elite. TT has finally hit on some better prospects and that is likely the bigger factor. I think that Campen is capable but he's no coach-of-the-year candidate. He will get the job done if given the right tools but he won't fashion a few paper clips into a MacGyver device.
     
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  13. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    As for the conference loss, I was over it quickly because I don't have ESPN or NFL Network anymore. This forum is the only thing that allowed it to fester in my brain. Otherwise I had moved on to ice fishing, skiing, and snowmobiling. :cool:
     
  14. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I think El Guapo has it right, Campen's not great but he's better than many Packers fans have given him credit for over the years. Early on he was a "victim" of the ZBS, something he never played or coached and he wasn't the one drafting players for that system.
     
  15. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    The average to below average line play has been masked by a HOF caliber QB running the show.
     
  16. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Mostly Football Outsiders is a great place to get some advanced stats but I really don´t like their way to measure offensive and defensive lines.

    Taking a look at the OL´s performance in 2014 there is absolutely no way the unit should be ranked higher in run blocking than pass protection. The line was superb in protection Rodgers, especially after he injured his calf, but had some issues in blocking for Lacy during last season.
     
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  17. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Pro Football Focus agrees with you on last year's line. I'm not sure how PFF arrives at it's results. But "the way" of FO is the methodology of DVOA. Like all stats, they're not perfect. But DVOA seems to me to be akin to OBP replacing BA and wOBA replacing OBP. None of them are perfect, but the refinements likely represent a player's abilities better than older methods. So I pay a lot of attention to FO's take on things. And I think it's interesting that there are teams, like the Patriots, who consistently are good at offensive line play year after year with the usual changes in personnel that every team goes through. Either they are incredibly adept at drafting, or they have excellent coaching. Certainly both are important, but I'd take the excellent coaching over the luck of drafting any day. With the Patriots' head offensive line coach now retired after 15 years, we might get to see how important he may have been.
     
  18. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I think Football Outsiders´ measurement of the offensive line run blocking is way too dependent on the RB´s performance. In addition only taking the total number of sacks into consideration when ranking pass protection doesn´t make a lot of sense either.

    As I´ve posted above I like a lot of their stats though.
     
  19. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Cheesehead

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    That holds the ball before passing longer than any QB in the league. Imo, that stat is impossible to dial up with a bad or mediocre OL.
     
  20. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    There were 9 QBs in the league last season that hold the ball longer than Rodgers before throwing it with Russell Wilson taking the most time.
     
  21. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    Not really. Besides 3/4 of last year, anybody watching could see the line play was barely average to very poor for the past few years. His mobility and ability to slide away from pressure and still be so accurate was a huge factor during that time. I couldn't even count the times he wouldn't even get to his drop and have to move to avoid pressure. It was a regular sight.

    and the run blocking was even worse.

    But for much of last year they played exceptional in the pass blocking dept and made big strides in run blocking. I look for that to continue to improve as well.
     
  22. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    There's no denying the pass protection improved significantly during last season but the run blocking wasn't as good as I was hoping for. Especially Bakhtiari and the tight ends have to inprove there.
     
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  23. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Bakhtiari had a sophomore slump so now the hope is that it was just a slump and not the norm. If our tackles fail or we get injuries in the interior, we do have capable backups for each position who got some good experience during some of blowout wins (Bears, etc.).
     
  24. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Bakhtiari was absolutely fine in pass protection and even improved in that department compared to his rookie season. He has to get stronger in run blocking though.
     
  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Any improvement from Bakhtiari and the incumbent TEs in run blocking will be marginal at best. They are who they are.

    What I would hope to see out of Bakhtiari is a reduction in holding penalties.

    Any improvement in the run blocking will have to come from Ripkowski, to whatever extent he happens to play. The other thing I'm looking for is whether they can get those pulling plays working in regular season as well as they looked at times in preseason last year.

    In any event, the O-Line is good enough to win a championship if nobody gets injured.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2015

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