Sign Mike Daniels?

[adambr2]

he has been good. not really good, imo. 6 sacks.... i want 12 from ends and 6 from nose.

There is literally one 3-4 DE and zero 3-4 NT that met that criteria last year.

I'd like my safeties to have 5 picks each and my corners 10 picks each while we're saying what we'd like, but we're trying to build a respectable and realistic defense for the Packers, not assemble an all-time dynasty roster.

 

[HardRightEdge]

There is literally one 3-4 DE and zero 3-4 NT that met that criteria last year.

I'd like my safeties to have 5 picks each and my corners 10 picks each while we're saying what we'd like, but we're trying to build a respectable and realistic defense for the Packers, not assemble an all-time dynasty roster.

Free agency killed the concept of a dynasty roster, so it doesn't need to be mentioned at all.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

I doubt Mike Daniels will be a high demand free agent.

I don't want to wait until next year to sign Daniels. I respectfully disagree with you.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I doubt Mike Daniels will be a high demand free agent.

I´m really surprised by that statement. Daniels has been one of the best 3-4 DE in the entire league over the last two seasons, I don´t see any reason why he shouldn´t garner a lot of interest if the Packers allow him to test free agency.

he has been good. not really good, imo. 6 sacks.... i want 12 from ends and 6 from nose.

As Carl already pointed out correctly you really have no idea how a 3-4 defense works.

 

[rodell330]

While we are on the topic of 3-4 D end we havnt had a good 3-4 d end since?? If Daniels is really that good he his numbers should only get better.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While we are on the topic of 3-4 D end we havnt had a good 3-4 d end since?? If Daniels is really that good he his numbers should only get better.

Well, the Packers changed to a 3-4 defense in 2009 when Capers took over as defensive coordinator. The last really good defense end before Daniels over that period was Cullen Jenkins.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Do people really still just look at sacks to judge a defensive linemen? I thought people had moved past that...it's like rating quarterbacks by yardage. Mike Daniels, on a per pass rush basis, was the fourth best 3-4 DE in the NFL last season. He produced pressure on the QB 9.1% of the time he rushed the QB.

JJ Watt was the best but his number was in its own stratosphere at 15%; Watt is slowly turning into the NFL's version of Wilt Chamberlain, you just have to take him out when looking at other players. Jason Hatcher was second at 9.6% and Sheldon Richardson was third at 9.5%.

In 2013 Daniels was the fifth best pass rusher among 3-4 DEs. It's safe to say that his price tag is far more likely to only go up the longer it takes Green Bay to sign him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here´s Pete Dougherty´s take on Daniels contract situation:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...4/20/daniels-next-line-new-contract/26102203/

 

[PikeBadger]

Here´s Pete Dougherty´s take on Daniels contract situation:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...4/20/daniels-next-line-new-contract/26102203/

Interesting that no mention is made of the other party (player & agent) involved in contract negotiations. It seems to me that a players willingness to have his contract extended a season ahead of expiration would be a significant part of negotiations. Imo, Dougherty only gave us half the story.

 

[rodell330]

Well, the Packers changed to a 3-4 defense in 2009 when Capers took over as defensive coordinator. The last really good defense end before Daniels over that period was Cullen Jenkins.

Cullen Jenkins was a heck of a player. He could defend the run and get sacks. The fact that TT could resign guys like Brad jones, AJ hawk and not Jenkins still irks me to this day. If you overpay At least overpay for someone good.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Cullen Jenkins was a heck of a player. He could defend the run and get sacks. The fact that TT could resign guys like Brad jones, AJ hawk and not Jenkins still irks me to this day. If you overpay At least overpay for someone good.

Jenkins was 30 years old at the time the Packers let him walk in free agency. He had another good season in Philly in 2011 but since has been an average player. The Eagles released him two seasons into a five year contract. In hindsight it was probably the right decision to not offer a deal similar to the one the Eagles signed him to.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I´m really surprised by that statement. Daniels has been one of the best 3-4 DE in the entire league over the last two seasons, I don´t see any reason why he shouldn´t garner a lot of interest if the Packers allow him to test free agency.

As Carl already pointed out correctly you really have no idea how a 3-4 defense works.

I wouldn't call him "one of the best" 3-4 DEs in the league, but I certainly value his play and would want him re-signed.

I said he will not be a high demand free agent for the same reason he was a 4th. round pick: his short stature (6' even) doesn't fit the vision of a 3-4 DE and his generally small size (300 lbs, give or take, together with his height) does not fit the prototype of a 4-3 tackle. Regardless of his gamer, hard working, chip-on-the-shoulder play, these things weigh in the market.

I would observe his strength is as a 3-tech pass rusher; his run game play at 4/5 tech has been inconsistent.

 

[SoonerPack]

I thought we were finally over the Cullen Jenkins talk. Guess not.

I respectfully disagree with the assertion that 76 wouldn't garner much interest in the FA pool. While he certainly wouldn't make Sue-type waves I do believe there would be many teams willing to pony up to get Mike on their roster. Mike may not be a superstar but he is a quality, above average interior lineman and those guys don't grow on trees. I, along with many others, feel as if Mike has not reached his ceiling yet and will continue to get better over the next few years. He has a great work ethic and a motor to match. He has that low center of gravity which allows him to win the leverage battle more times than not and at the end of the day Mike is the kind of guy teams want and will pay for. You know what you are getting from him every Sunday and beyond that he is also a locker room leader which any GM worth his salt values as well. This is a pretty easy debate in my mind. Kid is a really nice NFL player and those guys get paid. Period. I am sure Ted appreciates his value and will take care of him soon. Give him a fair contract and don't risk getting into a bidding war, which will happen. Beyond that I expect that if Raji and Guion play at a good level this year his stats will only get better and we all know what that will do to his value and asking price. Lock him up Ted, lock him up. G P G!

 

[adambr2]

I wouldn't call him "one of the best" 3-4 DEs in the league, but I certainly value his play and would want him re-signed.

I said he will not be a high demand free agent for the same reason he was a 4th. round pick: his short stature (6' even) doesn't fit the vision of a 3-4 DE and his generally small size (300 lbs, give or take, together with his height) does not fit the prototype of a 4-3 tackle. Regardless of his gamer, hard working, chip-on-the-shoulder play, these things weigh in the market.

I would observe his strength is as a 3-tech pass rusher; his run game play at 4/5 tech has been inconsistent.

I would think those would be reasons he dropped to the 4th round but not really reasons for him to be ignored on the FA market after proving himself in the league for 4 years.

Maybe we have different definitions of high demand, but if you're suggesting he won't get an offer for more than 3 years and $6M a year or so, I would vehemently disagree.

 

[Uncle Rico]

I doubt Mike Daniels will be a high demand free agent.

Have to disagree with you. I would think Daniels would get plenty of looks if he was allowed to test the market next year. There aren't many top tier 3-4 DEs in the 2016 UFA class.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Have to disagree with you. I would think Daniels would get plenty of looks if he was allowed to test the market next year. There aren't many top tier 3-4 DEs in the 2016 UFA class.

Daniels will not be viewed as a "top tier" 3-4 DE. I would consider his market value a shade or two above Paea, another smallish good-against-the-pass, inconsistent-against-the-run player. Paea got a 4 year / $21 mil deal from the Redskins, with a $5 mil signing bonus and total guarantees of $7.85 mil.

Thompson might make a similar offer now, which would likely be turned down. I see Daniels' eventual deal coming in around $6 mil per year with a little more guaranteed money than Paea, chiefly because the Packers have had considerable difficulties finding solid DEs since Jenkins departure, including considerable draft capital expended on Datone Jones who is entering his last season to prove he's not a bust.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Do people really still just look at sacks to judge a defensive linemen? I thought people had moved past that...it's like rating quarterbacks by yardage. Mike Daniels, on a per pass rush basis, was the fourth best 3-4 DE in the NFL last season. He produced pressure on the QB 9.1% of the time he rushed the QB.

JJ Watt was the best but his number was in its own stratosphere at 15%; Watt is slowly turning into the NFL's version of Wilt Chamberlain, you just have to take him out when looking at other players. Jason Hatcher was second at 9.6% and Sheldon Richardson was third at 9.5%.

In 2013 Daniels was the fifth best pass rusher among 3-4 DEs. It's safe to say that his price tag is far more likely to only go up the longer it takes Green Bay to sign him.

I like sacks. I like "hits" but not as much as sacks. "Pressures" come under the heading of "highly subjective", like tackles and drops, with disparities between sources, sometimes wide disparities.

Further, if you pressure Tom Brady or Peyton Manning or Drew Brees to step up in the pocket he'll just say "thank you very much", and those are the kinds of players you need to beat.

"Pressure" fills a statistical vacuum, but that does not put it on the same plane with the more limited stats that have a concrete affect. A "pressure" number for any one player in any one game is just one guy's eye test.

 

[Mondio]

I don't care what any of the stats say, my eye test tells me that Daniels is a guy I want around for the long term. I don't think he's reached a peak yet, his work ethic and attitude won't allow him to until his body starts to break down. I don't see that happening for a few years

 

[TJV]

Interesting that no mention is made of the other party (player & agent) involved in contract negotiations. It seems to me that a players willingness to have his contract extended a season ahead of expiration would be a significant part of negotiations. Imo, Dougherty only gave us half the story.

IMO that's a bit of an odd complaint. This is from Dougherty's story:

On Monday, Daniels was one of three players available to reporters for the first day of the Packers' offseason workout program and gave no hint of his hopes or expectations heading into the final year of his contract. "The instant people start putting a focus on something like that, that's when their play starts to suffer," Daniels said. "And I don't have time for my play to suffer."

No intelligent player/agent would publicly say 'I am (or we are) desperate to sign an extension before the end of this season' or 'We won't even listen to the Packers' offer before free agency at the end of the season'. I think it's safe to assume Daniels and his agent are looking to maximize his value, whether or not the contract is signed before or after he hits UFA.

I don't think there's an urgency to sign Daniels now but I do think he's worth the injury risk to extend him before UFA. Thompson has been quoted as saying, 'I can find better in the draft' when considering free agents but he'd have some trouble justifying that regarding DL. Daniels is one he did find in the draft and if they can save some money and cap space by extending him before the season is over, I'm all for it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

IMO that's a bit of an odd complaint. This is from Dougherty's story: No intelligent player/agent would publicly say 'I am (or we are) desperate to sign an extension before the end of this season' or 'We won't even listen to the Packers' offer before free agency at the end of the season'. I think it's safe to assume Daniels and his agent are looking to maximize his value, whether or not the contract is signed before or after he hits UFA.

I don't think there's an urgency to sign Daniels now but I do think he's worth the injury risk to extend him before UFA. Thompson has been quoted as saying, 'I can find better in the draft' when considering free agents but he'd have some trouble justifying that regarding DL. Daniels is one he did find in the draft and if they can save some money and cap space by extending him before the season is over, I'm all for it.

Right, the reporter can't do more than report than what the principals will tell him.

Sometimes it's explicit. I'm reminded of Jenkins and Wells being explicitly disgruntled in-season about how negotiations were going. If I recall correctly, Jenkins said something to the affect, "It's 99% I'll not be back with the Packers".

Other times one can do some tea-leaf-reading. In-season, Cobb confirmed negotiations were on-going, but dropped the "free agency" term.

In Daniel's case there's not a lot to read.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't care what any of the stats say, my eye test tells me that Daniels is a guy I want around for the long term.

If by "long term" you mean 4 year deal, I'm on board with that. But he simply cannot be called an "elite 3-4 DE".

 

[HardRightEdge]

I would think those would be reasons he dropped to the 4th round but not really reasons for him to be ignored on the FA market after proving himself in the league for 4 years.

Clearly 4 years of NFL performance weighs heavily. But when teams visualize how a player will fit in their system, which involves a projection, many will have an ingrained bias against a 6', 300 lb. "overachiever" risk.

4 years / $6 mil per year is my number.

 

[Mondio]

I think they'll see a very hardworking guy surrounded by mediocre and lower talent on a DL and still making plays. and in this day of the NFL, it's hard to envision many players beyond a QB getting anything more than a 4 year contract anymore at least not from the Packers.

 

[El Guapo]

Without knowing his 2015 output, my guess is that Daniels would be the type that goes at the end of the "seller's market" in free agency - so not first day but sometime in the first week. I doubt that he would make it to Thompson's favorite point, the "buyer's market."

 

[HardRightEdge]

Without knowing his 2015 output, my guess is that Daniels would be the type that goes at the end of the "seller's market" in free agency - so not first day but sometime in the first week. I doubt that he would make it to Thompson's favorite point, the "buyer's market."

Paea signed with the Redskins on the first day of free agency. The timing of such things is hard to predict.