1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Show him the money! (Longwell)

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by IPBprez, Nov 28, 2005.

  1. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,883
    Ratings:
    +5
    You can see the gold coins laying on his eye-lids, already....

    =================================

    Longwell's contract expires in March

    By BOB McGINN
    bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
    Posted: Nov. 25, 2005

    Green Bay - Ryan Longwell took careful note earlier in the month when the market for kickers in the National Football League went up and up and up.

    Soon it will be his turn to cash in following the lead of Philadelphia's David Akers, St. Louis' Jeff Wilkins and Arizona's Neil Rackers. As the fourth most accurate field goal kicker in NFL history, Longwell's only question is whether the Green Bay Packers or another team will be signing his checks next year.

    "The new market for kickers has really gone up," Longwell said Friday. "I think I rate in there above those guys so I think the number should absolutely show it."

    No talks have occurred between Longwell's agent and the club. He will become an unrestricted free agent and will be eligible to sign with another team in early March if the Packers don't re-sign him.

    The possibility exists that the Packers might place the franchise designation on Longwell, which is what New England has done with Adam Vinatieri. That effectively would remove Longwell from the market and all but force him to play for a one-year contract worth about $1.9 million.

    "They still have tag abilities to keep us here," Longwell said. "I wouldn't say that I want to leave. I would say I've always been curious. I don't feel that I'm at a position where I need to take a pay cut or something to stay."

    The flurry of signings began March 2 when Wilkins got a $3 million signing bonus for agreeing to a four-year extension. He was to have been unrestricted.

    Wilkins, 33, signed a five-year, $6.5 million deal ($1.5 million signing bonus) to stay with the Rams in March 2001 just a few days after Longwell, 31, signed a five-year, $7.5 million deal ($2 million signing bonus) to stay with Green Bay.

    "Wilkins has had a solid career," Longwell said. "But he's been in a dome, too."

    On Nov. 7, both Akers and Rackers re-signed. Akers' deal was to have run through 2007 whereas Rackers' was expiring at season's end.

    The Eagles gave Akers a $1.05 million signing bonus plus a $1 million roster bonus in 2006 as part of a three-year extension. At the same time, they used some of their surplus under the salary cap to pay him an additional $1.27 million in base salary for the rest of '05.

    Akers, 30, signed the deal one day after returning from a month-long absence due to a torn hamstring.

    "I have a tremendous amount of respect for Akers and what he's done," Longwell said. "But he signed that contract in the middle of a hamstring tear. As a kicker, your hamstring is your lifeblood. You don't know if he'll ever regain the power that he had. So I think it's a good deal for him."

    The selling point for the 29-year-old Rackers to sign his four-year extension was the Cardinals' decision to use their cap space to increase his base salary by $2 million over the final eight weeks of '05. The deal had no signing bonus. He has made all 31 of his field-goal attempts this season after having made just 65.7% in Cincinnati from 2000-'02.

    "Rackers is a guy that was kicked out of Cincinnati and struggled mightily in the bad weather and was left for dead," Longwell said. "He went to Arizona in perfect conditions and all of a sudden he's a superstar. He's having an unbelievable year, the year we all kind of dream about having. I think it's a great deal for him."

    Vinatieri's franchise-player salary of $2.51 million leads all kickers. Akers' average per year is $2.293 million, Oakland's Sebastian Janikowski's average is $1.74 million, Rackers' average is $1.625 million and Wilkins' average is $1.569 million.

    Indianapolis' Mike Vanderjagt, who also will be unrestricted in March, is the all-time leader in field-goal accuracy at 87.2%. He is followed by Cleveland's Phil Dawson (83.4%), Baltimore's Matt Stover (82.8%), Longwell (82%), Wilkins (81.9%), Miami's Olindo Mare (81.9%), Vinatieri (81.8%) and Akers (81.5%).

    Although B.J. Sander has slipped to 25th in gross average (41.2) and 23rd in net (36.9), it's probable that he'll be back punting and holding in '06. Longwell, however, said he now was comfortable with Sander and that his erratic holding wouldn't be a factor in his decision to stay or leave.

    The fate of Mike Sherman and his coaching staff remains to be determined but Longwell said the return of John Bonamego would be a plus for the Packers.

    "He's by far the best special-teams coach I've ever worked with," said Longwell, who also had Nolan Cromwell, Johnny Holland, Steve Ortmayer and Frank Novak in Green Bay. "Much more knowledgeable about stuff that had never crossed my mind before. I'd love to play for him."

    Longwell has seen Packers punters Craig Hentrich leave for Tennessee in February 1998 and Josh Bidwell for Tampa Bay in March 2004. Hentrich has made the Pro Bowl twice for the Titans and Bidwell, with a league-leading average of 47.3 and a net average of 39, might make it this year.

    "I don't think it's a coincidence that they're both in good weather," Longwell said. "It is a big difference. Guys have left and have improved their careers. So that's obviously a factor.

    “Sarah and I are excited about the next chapters of our lives, whether that’s here or elsewhere.â€
     
  2. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    you can not be serious. His foot won us 3 games ALONE last year. This year he has a new holder (the best 3rd round pick ever, Sander) who has botched many snaps. When Sander has a QB Rating and pass attempt\completion stat, it means he's a bad holder folks. Longwell is the all-time leading scorer on the packers. He is the kicking version of Brett Favre. If we dont re-sign him, I will be very upset. People thought "Oh well he just kicks the ball" when we let Bidwell go. How did that work out? and THIS is a much more important position because this is a guy who puts points on the board. He is a wuss? He is a kicker. What is he supposed to do, go out there and tackle people(BTW he has done that too because our special teams isnt very good)
     
  3. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,856
    Ratings:
    +0
    Interesting article. The Packers should make a serious offer to Longwell. He puts points on the board, and kickers are much more likely to live up to their contracts because they seldom get injured and they tend to get better with age at least into their late 30s if not beyond.

    Longwell is a kicking maniac, a true student of the game. I'm not surprised that he shows so little loyalty for the Packers. Kickers are all hired guns. They are never quite part of the team, and they know that the fans will turn on them in a heartbeat.
     
  4. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,904
    Ratings:
    +1
    Screw him. Why would he get into a conversation like this about other kickers. I hope HE doesn't pull a hamstring reaching around to pat himself on the back. He is thinking WAY too much about cashing in. That is why he was blaming Sander's holds for all his misses this season. The fact is, this is his free agency year and he has choked. Time to send him on his way.
     
  5. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,883
    Ratings:
    +5
    Looks like Tromadz and Greg C. were drinkin' the kool-aid - thanks for that add-on, DePack. You nailed it.... A great Kicker doesn't ever blame anyone for his failures.... It is NEVER always someone else's fault.... that's the (sorry) Jkerry mentality....

    A truly great kicker makes sure there's no chance for failure.... not redirect attention away from himself when things go bad - he will step up, either take the blame, or share it 50/50, and then make it right....

    I hope he gets the lowball offer he deserves. Passing the buck is the mark of a loser... and yeah.... HE's A WUSS, especially for passing the buck.. total decoy conversation from the get-go.... incredibly bad form. Lombardi wouldn't stand for it.... I ain't gonna, either!
     
  6. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +0
    IPB,

    Who will be a free agent that would be better?

    Vineteri, Vanderjagt, Longwell, Nedney and Cortez are the free agents at the end of the season(check Kick in the Head thread).

    I think the Packers should tag him(transition) and look for kicker in 07 when there are fewer priorities.
     
  7. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,883
    Ratings:
    +5
    Yeah - I'd tag him, too! That'd show him.....

    I haven't looked at the FA market - but good kickers who aren't crybabies, are as rare as platinum... I would offer that TT is already looking, because I bet "dimes to donuts" Ryan already has it on his Agent's desk to not except anything the Packers offer in good faith - he wants the sunny beaches and all that - warmer weather like he laments about in the article. He'll even take less money from (say) the Niners, to get away from the FROZEN TUNDRA - Jan Stenerud, he ain't!
     
  8. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,856
    Ratings:
    +0
    So you think we're "drinkin' the kool-aid" to say that the Packers should make a serious offer to their all-time scoring leader? In nine years, he's had only two bad years, and they weren't that bad. He's missed 4 out of 16 this year--not a good average, but nothing disastrous.

    And considering that Sander has botched two holds outright, it's not hard to believe that he's had some bad holds. Kicking involves an extreme amount of precision. That's why not just anybody with a strong leg is good at it--and why not just anybody is good at holding. I can understand why you don't like to see Longwell mentioning publicly that Sander's holds haven't been good on some of those missed kicks. But to his credit, Longwell has continued to back up Sander as his holder and to insist that the holding problems can be overcome with practice.

    Apparently some Packer fans have forgotten what it's like to have a REALLY bad kicker. We may find out soon.
     
  9. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,883
    Ratings:
    +5
    To be fair about it - I'm saying that Longwell's initial superiority complex put the whole deal in a bad light - which it did. You can forgo some of the info to suit whatever premise you like - but isolating things to avoid bad attention situations just ain't gonna get it done.

    I like the fact that (suddenly?) Longwell seems to be supporting his Holder... but, is that possibly something he was ordered to do (say) in public? - it's called a flip-flop. Did Sherman tell him to clean it up, or what.......? Longwell's primary plan of action was to not take the blame. That's not being a team player.... in any man's game.

    It sows the seeds of bad attitude towards teammates.
    To boot, guys - Longwell had "all summer and all pre-season" to clean this mess up - and let it lay on the ground, for the groundskeeper to clean it up... THAT's what riles me all the more.... what say we take all of it into account... Sure, his record with the Pack is something to be admired - what's more,...I do - but, he's soiled all of it with this behavior this year - I say again - we wouldn't be having these issues with FG's this season had Longwell took care of business in the proper way.... He ran away from it. Let him find other feeding ground if need be - that kind of muck brings the whole team down, especially in the Locker room.

    Aren't we all still looking for who the Leader would be,... in the Locker Room?
     
  10. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    a great kicker makes sure theres no chance of failure? Is he supposed to hold it himself? that was the dumb comment of the day (dont worry, ive had my share)

    Longwell has missed his share of FGs, im not saying that, but he is very consistent when he has a good holder.
     
  11. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +0
    My point is

    1) Have a plan before you throw Longwell overboard. If it is one of the free agents think of the cost. Viniteri is currently tagged and costs double what Longwell's current contract costs (2.35 mil).

    Viniteri has not kicked one 50 yards or more since 2002. Nedney is currently hurt and replaced by Cortez who was cut by Philly when Akers returned. Vandrjagt is a dome guy who does not kick off(his kickoffs are shorter than Longwell). Longwell is younger than all but Cortez.

    2) If you do not want what is on the free agent market do you want to spend a valuable draft choice in the important upcoming draft?

    3) I would suggest tagging him and putting off the decision for another year looking for a better free agent market or draft pick.

    4) You go with one of the guys who bounces around the league like Nedney or Cortez and say kicking is not that important.

    The Packers do need a kicker in 06. I have looked at the market and the Packers best option is Longwell. How long do you sign him for? How long will his leg last? Do you "lock him up" for years at current prices? Current price is 2.1 million a year for years or tag for 2.5 million. I like the flexibility of the tag and check the market next year or a 2-3 year contract.
     
  12. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,868
    Ratings:
    +2
    Wow.... So a kicker that has been as good to the Packers as they could expect over the years gets bashed on this Packer Forum, how ever the leader of the team passes the buck and it is OK with some people?

    Perhaps the kicker has been listening to the Quarterback who cost them the game yesterday..... Perhaps it is a team thing.

    "It's funny how, given that opportunity, some people rise to that occasion and some people don't," Favre said. "I'm one of them. I got an opportunity to play because of injury. And it's a small window. And from my end it is frustrating. William goes down and Vonta comes in and we run that key pass, the only key pass we run all day and it had a chance to be really big and he doesn't catch it. I feel sorry for Vonta. He's a young kid and he's going to make that play. It just goes to show you about this season."

    Now... Go back up to the top of this message and read my friend IBP's message again, this time replace the word KICKER with Quarterback.

    The fact that Brett ended this statement with "He's a kid and he's going to make that play. It just shows you abaout this season." does not soften the blow brett just hit Vonta with in public and in the media. It was best throw this week... It was on target, and he threw the kid under the bus with one of his famous fastball spirals.

    Good On you Trom and Greg! You brought some sanity to this topic.
     
  13. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,883
    Ratings:
    +5
    Well, one thing's fer sure --- I'm not a blind idolitor over Brett Favre.
    And, what's more - I';m not gonna be over Longwell - either the article writer purposely did not relate more of what Ryan had to say - or Longwell just didn't think it was pertinent to let GB fans know he truly "likes it" in Cheesetown.

    Why focus on the warmer weather aspect - to "rejuvenate" his kicking career.....?
    He could have phrased all of this commentary better....

    What's more - all I've heard in here - is what's out there on the FA market.
    College kids don't count anymore....?

    For good measure - Vanderjagt is more consistent than Longwell - and does pretty well even outside a Dome. (Course, I've party-ed with the guy, too - he's a drunk when not in uniform, quite often) Just the same, that comment of writing off just about everyone else is a bit slanted all by itself.

    I would bet you - Longwell would prefer to not be in Green Bay - no matter what......
     
  14. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,904
    Ratings:
    +1
    RP....are you REALLY comparing Favre to Longwell with respect to leadership?

    Huge difference....Favre is a Hall of Fame FOOTBALL PLAYER....Longwell hangs out with football players....he's a kicker.

    Favre has never "passed the buck" in his life. Mentioning that Leach "has to make that play" is not passing the buck. Tell me you weren't MFing him when he dropped that ball. In the context of the conversation Favre was pointing out that injuries were killing them. He went on to say that Henderson is normally the guy to make that play but went down with an injury covering the previous kickoff. That's how the season has gone.

    Blame this loss all you want on Favre for his decisions OR his passing but please don't ever accuse him of passing the buck or being a poor leader.
     
  15. Robin Yount

    Robin Yount Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    265
    Ratings:
    +0
    Simply put:

    You don't know what your missing until it's gone.

    Good kickers are hard to find. Look at the past struggles of:

    Tampa Bay
    The Queens
    The 49ers
    The Bears

    Kickers can win games for you. Look at the GB/MN games over the last 2 years. We better tread lightly and really think about it if Longwell is going to be let go.
     
  16. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,067
    Ratings:
    +0
    Lets let Sherman run the Draft again he may surprise us with a great find and use our 1st overall pick on a kicker !!!!! je,je,je.

    :twisted: :p :) :D :lol: :wink:
     
  17. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,904
    Ratings:
    +1
    What does je,je,je. mean?
     
  18. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,856
    Ratings:
    +0
    RP makes a valid point, but I don't think it's even worth comparing the QB's comments to the kicker's comments. Kickers are just kickers. They are never going to be team leaders, so who cares what they say? Remember when Vanderjagt made those negative comments about Peyton Manning a couple years ago? Boy, that sure tore apart the Colts, didn't it? Manning called him a "stupid kicker" and that was pretty much the end of it. Since then, both those players have continued to be among the very best in the league at their positions, and the Colts have been successful. If we are looking for a kicker to a team leader, we are truly in sorry shape because it's never going to happen.
     
  19. calicheesehead

    calicheesehead Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    742
    Ratings:
    +0
    My only concern with Longwells comments is that he thinks John Bonamego is the best ST's coach out there!
    DePack-J is pronounced as H in Spanish, there for, je je je is he he he!
     
  20. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,904
    Ratings:
    +1
    Got it! Thanks cali.....and to think I took 3 years of Spanish in High School. I guess they didn't teach that 25 years ago!
     
  21. gotarace27

    gotarace27 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    316
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm torn between taging him or letting him go. Sounds like the guy is all but packed and ready to go. Ryan has been a great kicker for us over the years, but his leg on kickoffs has killed us also. He has to have the worst starting field position of any kicker in the league. I would have to say tag him at this time and have a all out kickers battle in mini camps and pre season next year. Maybe we could carry two kickers on our roster and get a touchback next year when we need one. If this kicking coach is so special he could see talent in the rough and develop him over a season. I remember when we got longwell and knowone else in the league though he was anything special.
     
  22. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,207
    Ratings:
    +0
    Why the hell can't Nall hold the G-damn ball?

    It would be better to have a QB anyway..if something happened and he had to pass....

    What is it with you so called Packer fans that you attack the best players on your team who have been your bread and butter?

    (ps....SherRossley's a moron...)
     
  23. sixone220

    sixone220 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    688
    Ratings:
    +1
    i liked ryan before reading this article. what a d!ck. he's a great kicker but my god, trying giving someone else a little credit and get off the "rackers gets perfect conditions, vandy is in a dome, i have to suffer in the snow so i'm a god" crap.
     
  24. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,856
    Ratings:
    +0
    Opponents' average starting field position this season is the 28 yard line--about the league average, if I'm not mistaken.
     
  25. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,560
    Ratings:
    +1
    Here is the bottom line, if Longwell wants to stay here he will accept a fair offer from the Packers. He can go down as one of the all-time best kickers in Packer history and be legend up there one day, or he can do what Sharper did and move on. No matter what happens, Sharper will never be welcome back in Green Bay again. Maybe the money will make the difference, but one thing is very true; it doesn't cost nearly as much to live in Green Bay as it does in any other NFL city. However, if he wants to break the bank the chances are good he will do so elsewhere.
     

Share This Page