Should we take a risk in the draft this year and draft someone with injury history? It seems like there are alot of questional players with injury history (or suspension issues) this year and there might be a gem in the rough. if you were TT would you take a gamble on one of these players? If so which one?
Should we take a risk in the draft?
- Thread starter ivo610
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PackersRS
Cheesehead
Aw hell no!
We have enough injury prone players as it is! Why would you want another Harrell? Seriously. Let's look at this:
Rodgers: concussion last year, plus lots of injuries early in his career.
Grant: injuried last year
Starks: injuried till late in the season
Finley: injuried last year
Driver: injuried in 09 and last year
Clifton: injuried since 08
Tauscher: injuried since 08
Sitton: injuried in 08
Lang: Injuried last year
Picket: injuried in 09
Jenkins: Injuried in 08 and last year
Neal: Injuried last year
Harrell: Permanently injuried
Barnett: Injuried in 08 and last year
Chillar: Injuried last year
Jones: Injuried last year
Zombo: Injuried last year
Matthews: Injuried last year
Bigby: Injuried 08, 09 and 10
Burnett: Injuried last year
Woodson: Injuried in the SB
Shields: Injuried in the SB
Pat Lee: Injuried in 08 and 09
I mean, every team has injuries, but this is just ridiculous! And I'm missing some guys, like Poppinga, or a guy that had to quit football altogether in Jeremy Thompson!
I believe TT actually has a tendency to draft injury-prone players (or our medics really, really suck, but they are the same since 95 I believe). If anything, I say draft only players that have never been injuried! I can't take it anymore!
We have enough injury prone players as it is! Why would you want another Harrell? Seriously. Let's look at this:
Rodgers: concussion last year, plus lots of injuries early in his career.
Grant: injuried last year
Starks: injuried till late in the season
Finley: injuried last year
Driver: injuried in 09 and last year
Clifton: injuried since 08
Tauscher: injuried since 08
Sitton: injuried in 08
Lang: Injuried last year
Picket: injuried in 09
Jenkins: Injuried in 08 and last year
Neal: Injuried last year
Harrell: Permanently injuried
Barnett: Injuried in 08 and last year
Chillar: Injuried last year
Jones: Injuried last year
Zombo: Injuried last year
Matthews: Injuried last year
Bigby: Injuried 08, 09 and 10
Burnett: Injuried last year
Woodson: Injuried in the SB
Shields: Injuried in the SB
Pat Lee: Injuried in 08 and 09
I mean, every team has injuries, but this is just ridiculous! And I'm missing some guys, like Poppinga, or a guy that had to quit football altogether in Jeremy Thompson!
I believe TT actually has a tendency to draft injury-prone players (or our medics really, really suck, but they are the same since 95 I believe). If anything, I say draft only players that have never been injuried! I can't take it anymore!
Kitten
Feline Cheesehead
I haven't really thought about that in depth. It would depend on need and availability. I don't think he'd risk it if there isn's someone else available that we need more. Where are we even weak at? I'm still so high from the SB that I am starting to delude myself to think the team infallible. Draft talk is a real awakening, for I have wished to never wake from this dream. Whatever occurs, I trust Ted. I worship at the feet of Master Ted for all things draft, evermore.
Kitten
Feline Cheesehead
RS, that list is actually painful to look at. It makes me all the more proud, and a shade astounded, that very same team won the SB. Therein lies the point. Has this year not proven to us that even with all those injuries, somehow the spirit of this team prevailed to overcome all? Even if T.T. takes a risk on an injury prone player, does it even matter? I don't think he'd take the risk if he thought something better available, but come on! Look at this year! Look at that list! Would you look at it mid-season and think Superbowl? I'm not saying injuries don't matter, but for this team, they have found a spirit unlike any I have ever seen. Perhaps then it would not matter, but back to Ivo's question, who then would we draft?
I really think our one flaw this year, although it did noticeably improve towards the post season, is special teams. I'm not going to go into the who or what positions need to be filled without doing the proper research, but I think drafting some guys to help out or ST, or even moving already existing players, would help take us beyond perfecto.
I really think our one flaw this year, although it did noticeably improve towards the post season, is special teams. I'm not going to go into the who or what positions need to be filled without doing the proper research, but I think drafting some guys to help out or ST, or even moving already existing players, would help take us beyond perfecto.
Ausnadian
Cheesehead
I have to say, a lot of injuries don't come just due to poor conditioning, there are a ton of circumstantial injuries that happen where injury prone histories have nothing to do with the outcome. eg. Tom Brady's leg was buckled backwards, there was no way any prior injury was the reason it happened.
Unless you have repeating soft tissue injuries that would suggest the player doesn't rehab correctly, then nothing else should be a concern.
Unless you have repeating soft tissue injuries that would suggest the player doesn't rehab correctly, then nothing else should be a concern.
Sometimes college injuries are just college injuries. And sometimes pro injuries are just that. Example, matt stafford and Sam bradford. One had injury concerns coming out of college, the other hasn't played a full season yet.
If Bowers is available when we pick or within a couple picks I would seriously think about taking him, reguardless of the injuries. The potential is just too high.
If Bowers is available when we pick or within a couple picks I would seriously think about taking him, reguardless of the injuries. The potential is just too high.
GWheels
Cheesehead
I would have hoped TT would have learned from the Justin Harrell pick.
Helmets
Cheesehead
It would be interesting to determine the percentage of injuries that are a result of strains, pulls, sprains, etc and how much of that can/could be attributed to strength and conditioning. Perhaps I am not remembering correctly, but I remember some of the Holmgren teams being very "lucky" with few injuries. Then there seemed to be multiple different directions with removing all of the weight machines and going to all free weights, etc. How much of all of that contributes to injuries? There are obviously teams that consistently stay relatively healthy year after year. Coincidence? luck?
With that said, I am all for drafting a player that has had some injuries in college if the value is there in later rounds - if the player fell in the draft due to his injury history - ie. Terrell Davis. Justin Harrell was a different case - not just an injury history, but also a reach in the first round. I am in the majority that when the name was called yelled "WHO????"
With that said, I am all for drafting a player that has had some injuries in college if the value is there in later rounds - if the player fell in the draft due to his injury history - ie. Terrell Davis. Justin Harrell was a different case - not just an injury history, but also a reach in the first round. I am in the majority that when the name was called yelled "WHO????"
DergaSmash
Cheesehead
I personally think that some injuries are just injuries, and if they are treated and rehabbed properly, they won't be much of a problem. I know from personal experience with injuries and through my job as an Army nurse that there are injuries that have lingering effects. I also think that there are some people who are just unlucky or have bad kharma and are doomed to battle injuries for their entire careers but there are few of these players.
I think that if TT and the front office should consult with their medical staff regarding prospects' injuries if they don't already. Every person is different so while a knee sprain might make one guy more susceptible to future knee injuries, the same sprain might have no lingering effects on a different player.
There are many injuries that are common to having lingering effects, so I will try to stay with the ones common to football.
Concussions- Concussions make the person more susceptible to future concussions and post-concussion syndrome. There is no argument here, this has been shown time and time again. The problem is in proper and speedy diagnosis and prompt treatment. The sooner you catch it and treat it, the better the prognosis.
Ligament tears/sprains- Sprains are either an over stretching or very slight tearing of a ligament, depending on the degree of the sprain. Partial and complete ligament tears are the next steps after a sprain. All of these injuries may have long lasting effects but the odds of this decreases in step with the severity. So a minor mcl sprain has a much smaller chance of causing future problems than a complete mcl tear. The key to preventing lingering effects of these injuries is proper treatment and rehab.
Muscle strains/ tendon tears- are similar to sprains and ligament tears but they involve muscle. Muscle is much more vascular than ligaments so the prognosis is usually better. Healing times and rehab is usually shorter too due to the faster rate of healing.
Also, alot of factors regarding injuries have to do with the players' family medical history. The players' position plays a key factor too. Positions that involve more than average contact, carry higher risks. Positions that require players to have bodies that are bigger and heavier will carry higher risks too. A lineman who is over 6'2 and over 320lbs is going to but a great deal more stress on his knees, ankles, hips, and back than a kicker, quarterback, or wideout.
I am a firm believer in that prevention of these injuries is key and that proper strength and conditioning is one of the best ways to prevent most of these injuries. A facet that is overlooked a lot however is diet. WHat these athletes put into their bodies is just as important as what they do to/with their bodies. Some seemingly harmless medications/nutritional supplements can have nasty side effects. I know some antibiotics make connective tissue more prone to ruptures/tears as a side effect. Some athletic supplements can cause sever dehydration or electrolyte imbalances. Electrolytes have a very important role in muscle function and tone.
I know that the teams' medical staff are probably very vigilant and do their jobs well. Yet if a player is taking something that isn't on the banned substance list, there is no test for it. So unless he is up front and forthcoming about this medication/substance the medical staff won't know he is taking it. This can cause serious issues.
Injuries and players being injury prone or recurring injuries is a big issue that has a lot more to it than I think most people realize. Yet any injury to connective tissue at joints can cause some types of arthritis. Chronic inflammation in a joint causes some damage and tissue breakdown making that joint more susceptible to future injuries. Because arthritis is not a curable condition, all we can do is treat the symptoms. THis can help reduce the additional risks but not eliminate them.
The bottom line is if players, coaches, and the medical staff need to all be on the same page. There needs to be open communication and proper strength/conditioning done, even in the off season. This will minimize injuries. Yet once a player gets hurt, because injuries are part of the game, that player needs to be diagnosed and treated ASAP. He then needs proper rehab. I think teams, especially ownership are probably a little too aggressive with rehab. Its bad business to pay a player who isn't playing. I know that sounds cruel but I don't buy for an instant that a guy like Jerry Jones would care about his players long term health. So I am sure that rehab is usually a bit more aggressive than it should be, in order to get the players back on the field as soon as possible. I'm sure the competitive nature of players can factor into this as well.
Healing is a delicate process that is different for every person and it should be treated as such.
I think that if TT and the front office should consult with their medical staff regarding prospects' injuries if they don't already. Every person is different so while a knee sprain might make one guy more susceptible to future knee injuries, the same sprain might have no lingering effects on a different player.
There are many injuries that are common to having lingering effects, so I will try to stay with the ones common to football.
Concussions- Concussions make the person more susceptible to future concussions and post-concussion syndrome. There is no argument here, this has been shown time and time again. The problem is in proper and speedy diagnosis and prompt treatment. The sooner you catch it and treat it, the better the prognosis.
Ligament tears/sprains- Sprains are either an over stretching or very slight tearing of a ligament, depending on the degree of the sprain. Partial and complete ligament tears are the next steps after a sprain. All of these injuries may have long lasting effects but the odds of this decreases in step with the severity. So a minor mcl sprain has a much smaller chance of causing future problems than a complete mcl tear. The key to preventing lingering effects of these injuries is proper treatment and rehab.
Muscle strains/ tendon tears- are similar to sprains and ligament tears but they involve muscle. Muscle is much more vascular than ligaments so the prognosis is usually better. Healing times and rehab is usually shorter too due to the faster rate of healing.
Also, alot of factors regarding injuries have to do with the players' family medical history. The players' position plays a key factor too. Positions that involve more than average contact, carry higher risks. Positions that require players to have bodies that are bigger and heavier will carry higher risks too. A lineman who is over 6'2 and over 320lbs is going to but a great deal more stress on his knees, ankles, hips, and back than a kicker, quarterback, or wideout.
I am a firm believer in that prevention of these injuries is key and that proper strength and conditioning is one of the best ways to prevent most of these injuries. A facet that is overlooked a lot however is diet. WHat these athletes put into their bodies is just as important as what they do to/with their bodies. Some seemingly harmless medications/nutritional supplements can have nasty side effects. I know some antibiotics make connective tissue more prone to ruptures/tears as a side effect. Some athletic supplements can cause sever dehydration or electrolyte imbalances. Electrolytes have a very important role in muscle function and tone.
I know that the teams' medical staff are probably very vigilant and do their jobs well. Yet if a player is taking something that isn't on the banned substance list, there is no test for it. So unless he is up front and forthcoming about this medication/substance the medical staff won't know he is taking it. This can cause serious issues.
Injuries and players being injury prone or recurring injuries is a big issue that has a lot more to it than I think most people realize. Yet any injury to connective tissue at joints can cause some types of arthritis. Chronic inflammation in a joint causes some damage and tissue breakdown making that joint more susceptible to future injuries. Because arthritis is not a curable condition, all we can do is treat the symptoms. THis can help reduce the additional risks but not eliminate them.
The bottom line is if players, coaches, and the medical staff need to all be on the same page. There needs to be open communication and proper strength/conditioning done, even in the off season. This will minimize injuries. Yet once a player gets hurt, because injuries are part of the game, that player needs to be diagnosed and treated ASAP. He then needs proper rehab. I think teams, especially ownership are probably a little too aggressive with rehab. Its bad business to pay a player who isn't playing. I know that sounds cruel but I don't buy for an instant that a guy like Jerry Jones would care about his players long term health. So I am sure that rehab is usually a bit more aggressive than it should be, in order to get the players back on the field as soon as possible. I'm sure the competitive nature of players can factor into this as well.
Healing is a delicate process that is different for every person and it should be treated as such.
Green_Bay_Packers
Cheesehead
Yeah we dont need another Harrell type player
Mel-MinAlum
Cheesehead
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IMO, This is another area where the lack of a CBA being in place is going to effect decision making. If the forced mediation doesn't get it done in the next two weeks, teams will have no idea exactly which players they will lose or retain, they don't know who from other teams they may be able to sign or trade for, and they won't be able to sign undrafted players when round seven is over. Therefore teams are going to be under even more pressure to have their higher round picks produce and will be forced to pass on risky players in favor of "safe" players with a lower ceiling. This uncertainty is also likely to result in some teams passing on a higher rated player in order to fill a need at a different position. Of course every team's risk tolerance has its limit on the other end too and eventually the risk level becomes acceptable, which is why I think we are also going to see a lot of pick swapping throughout the entire draft.
We all know that some players will go higher than expected, while some will drop like they do every year. My gut feeling is that a lot more of this is going to occur than most people, including the paid "experts" are expecting, especially if you consider two or three teams trading up to get QBs. Get ready to scream at the TV and type like mad, cuz if it plays out this way TT is going to have more players available in each round that shouldn't be there than we've ever seen before.
We all know that some players will go higher than expected, while some will drop like they do every year. My gut feeling is that a lot more of this is going to occur than most people, including the paid "experts" are expecting, especially if you consider two or three teams trading up to get QBs. Get ready to scream at the TV and type like mad, cuz if it plays out this way TT is going to have more players available in each round that shouldn't be there than we've ever seen before.
Calhoun Lambeau
Cheesehead
I've heard a couple of times from 'TV news breakers' via 'NFL decision-makers' that there are going to be a lot of 'surprise' picks, especially late in the first round because decision makers are more apt to go with 'their guys' this year because the draft is pretty thin with 1st round talent. So expect the generic 1st round mock draft's with the same 32 players mixed around in all of them to get shredded up pretty nice.
DergaSmash
Cheesehead
LoL. It would be awesome to win. As far as the risk question goes, I don't really see why Green Bay would risk it right now. Most of the talent is coming back for next season, so there are only a few needs, and there isn't a player in the draft this year that I am absolutely smitten with, or has such an upside to eclipse his prior injuries. At least not in the first round or two. I think gambles like that are better left to later rounds if they are still on the board. Why tempt fate? There are plenty of good players available who don't have injury concerns.
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