Shields' talks heating up

[easyk83]

No. I think Clay Matthews is a victim of draft and develop. He is a Pro Bowl talent and a proven playmaker. The problem is NFL offenses have been able to neutralize him because he has no other front seven players that have had consistent impact. When you had Woodson, not necessarily saying TT should have paid him--Although he did have a nice season with the Raiders--he was able to navigate the field with less resistance. GB needs another playmaker or two on defense not another offensive weapon. Also need consistent special teams play.

All pretty obvious.

This is bogus. Clay Matthews was on pace to have 11 sacks last season and that's despite playing half of his games with a cast/splint. Despite injuries to Clay Matthews and others the Packers still managed one of the better pass rushes in the league last year. Not that I expect a logical fact based from the TT Hater's Brigade. You guys type but all I see is a string of derps.

 

[easyk83]

Nobody drafts "ineffective players" on purpose. The art of drafting is recognizing a real player vs a washout. Easy to say; difficult to do. TT is as good as any GM, imo. Now, if he could just come up with a miracle anti-injury pill he'd be better than any other GM.

Well that's exactly it. Does TT draft injury prone players or do we just have just have a greater number of injuries due to our training medical staff. I'm of the impression that the more responsible your medical staff is the more injuries you'll see.

 

[OCBP]

This is bogus. Clay Matthews was on pace to have 11 sacks last season and that's despite playing half of his games with a cast/splint. Despite injuries to Clay Matthews and others the Packers still managed one of the better pass rushes in the league last year. Not that I expect a logical fact based from the TT Hater's Brigade. You guys type but all I see is a string of derps.

Here we ago again with the emotional TT jock sniffers. Why does it always get personal with you people?

If you think that another playmaker on defense wouldn't help Matthews, that's your opinion. If you think GB has a great pass rush, that's your opinion. If you want to blame lack of production on the field on injuries and what ifs, that's your opinion. I respect that.

However, don't put me in the TT hater brigade, don't say my posts have no logic and please refrain from the personal attacks.

 

[easyk83]

Here we ago again with the emotional TT jock sniffers. Why does it always get personal with you people?

If you think that another playmaker on defense wouldn't help Matthews, that's your opinion. If you think GB has a great pass rush, that's your opinion. If you want to blame lack of production on the field on injuries and what ifs, that's your opinion. I respect that.

However, don't put me in the TT hater brigade, don't say my posts have no logic and please refrain from the personal attacks.

Do you acknowledge that in spite of injuries GB had one of the more effective pass rush units in the league last season?

 

[Ace]

If I insinuated or if you interpreted that I said to weaken the offense, I apologize.

GB needs to sign their center and avoid the mistakes of drafting ineffective OL players. The skill positions are solid. Sign Nelson and Cobb. Secure a reasonable talent at TE--I think Finley is gone. If Rodgers stays healthy, with Lacy and some luck with health on the OL all is good.

Fix the defense and special teams and you're in business. All pretty obvious.

Not sure what you mean by this please explain.

 

[OCBP]

Do you acknowledge that in spite of injuries GB had one of the more effective pass rush units in the league last season?

Note:

•I steer clear of injury discussion. Every team in the league has them.
•I think the pass rush can be improved upon. Whether that's additional playmakers in the front seven or more consistent coverage in the secondary.
•Regardless of if the pass rush was great, terrible or indifferent, the unit as a whole did not compete on a high level last year and I see gaps/voids that need to be addressed.

Logical enough or more strings of derps?

 

[Ace]

Here we ago again with the emotional TT jock sniffers. Why does it always get personal with you people?

If you think that another playmaker on defense wouldn't help Matthews, that's your opinion. If you think GB has a great pass rush, that's your opinion. If you want to blame lack of production on the field on injuries and what ifs, that's your opinion. I respect that.

However, don't put me in the TT hater brigade, don't say my posts have no logic and please refrain from the personal attacks.

Please refrain from the personal attacks.

Now, it gets personal because you and the other TT haters (or whatever you'd like to call yourselves) like to bring up Jones, Burnett etc for having bad contracts, and that he doesn't draft well. Both of which are factually incorrect. You're going to tell me that Burnett didn't earn his contract? I agree he hasn't lived up to it yet but don't tell me he didn't earn it. As I've told you other on these boards have said Brad Jones played well prior to injury, is he overpaid? Maybe, maybe not I don't know but it would be nice to see him play an injury free season before you bash the contract. There are 31 other NFL teams with what are perceived to be bad contracts on their books. It happens. His drafting is the ONLY reason we are where we are, and that is a team that will make the playoffs every single year and has an opportunity at a Super Bowl every year.

I agree the defense needs a playmaker, and with the money he has and how deep this draft is reported to be I have full faith he will find one.

 

[OCBP]

Please refrain from the personal attacks.

Now, it gets personal because you and the other TT haters (or whatever you'd like to call yourselves) like to bring up Jones, Burnett etc for having bad contracts, and that he doesn't draft well. Both of which are factually incorrect. You're going to tell me that Burnett didn't earn his contract? I agree he hasn't lived up to it yet but don't tell me he didn't earn it. As I've told you other on these boards have said Brad Jones played well prior to injury, is he overpaid? Maybe, maybe not I don't know but it would be nice to see him play an injury free season before you bash the contract. There are 31 other NFL teams with what are perceived to be bad contracts on their books. It happens. His drafting is the ONLY reason we are where we are, and that is a team that will make the playoffs every single year and has an opportunity at a Super Bowl every year.

I agree the defense needs a playmaker, and with the money he has and how deep this draft is reported to be I have full faith he will find one.

I give TT his props all the time. Fair and balanced. Everyone has an opinion.

The draft and player personnel decisions are extremely difficult. TT has done very good job. My frustration like, I guess as some of you call us TT haters, others is that he refuses to pull trigger on veteran players from the outside and seemingly has an infatuation with being one of the youngest teams in the NFL.

Just saying he could supplement draft and UFA's misfires (as you say, every team has them) with experience--Ron Wolf. That's all.

 

[Ace]

I give TT his props all the time. Fair and balanced. Everyone has an opinion.

The draft and player personnel decisions are extremely difficult. TT has done very good job. My frustration like, I guess as some of you call us TT haters, others is that he refuses to pull trigger on veteran players from the outside and seemingly has an infatuation with being one of the youngest teams in the NFL.

Just saying he could supplement draft and UFA's misfires (as you say, every team has them) with experience--Ron Wolf. That's all.

I have always agreed with this, and it is and always will be one of my biggest pet peeves with TT, but it is what it is. But he has managed to lock up his 2 best players on either side of the ball and still have 30+ million in cap space to work with. He must be doing something right. Now the question is will he use that money, remains to be seen. I for one hope he does. There HAS to be a way to lock up the WR's and Sam and still spend some in free agency.

 

[OCBP]

I have always agreed with this, and it is and always will be one of my biggest pet peeves with TT, but it is what it is. But he has managed to lock up his 2 best players on either side of the ball and still have 30+ million in cap space to work with. He must be doing something right. Now the question is will he use that money, remains to be seen. I for one hope he does. There HAS to be a way to lock up the WR's and Sam and still spend some in free agency.

See--We're mostly on the same page!

I fear Shields will go--Could be wrong. If that happens, he needs to be replaced with experience in my opinion. Some will say draft a corner, some will say plug in a current roster member. I just think that Shields is one of your top players on "D" with upside. If he goes, now you have an additional void on a defense that needs to be upgraded.

It's a tough business. Enjoy the day!

 

[Ace]

See--We're mostly on the same page!

I fear Shields will go--Could be wrong. If that happens, he needs to be replaced with experience in my opinion. Some will say draft a corner, some will say plug in a current roster member. I just think that Shields is one of your top players on "D" with upside. If he goes, now you have an additional void on a defense that needs to be upgraded.

It's a tough business. Enjoy the day!

I would argue though that if Sam does sign elsewhere, that that is a position that the Packers would be able to absorb. It would be a blow yes but with Tramon, Casey, House and Hyde I think we have some depth there.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you acknowledge that in spite of injuries GB had one of the more effective pass rush units in the league last season?

The Packers had one of the worst pass rush units in the entire league last year, they weren´t able to apply constant pressure, especially when rushing only four guys. The total number of sacks is a completely misleading stat.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Now, it gets personal because you and the other TT haters (or whatever you'd like to call yourselves) like to bring up Jones, Burnett etc for having bad contracts, and that he doesn't draft well. Both of which are factually incorrect. You're going to tell me that Burnett didn't earn his contract? I agree he hasn't lived up to it yet but don't tell me he didn't earn it. As I've told you other on these boards have said Brad Jones played well prior to injury, is he overpaid? Maybe, maybe not I don't know but it would be nice to see him play an injury free season before you bash the contract.

I´m sorry, but those two guys are highly overpaid, I really don´t understand how anybody could disagree with that.

His drafting is the ONLY reason we are where we are, and that is a team that will make the playoffs every single year and has an opportunity at a Super Bowl every year.

Rodgers is the only reason this team has made the playoffs over the last few season and are a Super Bowl contender (kind of). And yes, TT deserves credit for drafting him and sticking with him in 2008.

 

[Ace]

I´m sorry, but those two guys are highly overpaid, I really don´t understand how anybody could disagree with that.

Sure Burnett appears to be overpaid right now but I don't remember anyone complaining (I wasn't a member on these boards at the time so if people on here were I apologize) when he received that deal.

Jones, sure he is overpaid I won't argue with that. I've never liked him actually but like I've said prior to his injury he was playing well according to some here.

 

[BorderRivals.com]

Sure Burnett appears to be overpaid right now but I don't remember anyone complaining (I wasn't a member on these boards at the time so if people on here were I apologize) when he received that deal.

That's the bit no one considers. We're all using hindsight to rip TT for the Burnett deal. But, at the time, he was being pimped as the next great safety about to make the fourth year leap that Collins and Butler did. He had been above-average before the deal, which made it a smart extension if he had continued to improve. Unfortunately, Burnett had a terrible year this year and the deal looks horrible - as of now. So, technically, he is overpaid right now. But, if you truly consider the context, I don't think TT was wrong in signing the deal at the time. In contrast, the deal for Jones never really made sense from the get-go. So ripping TT for overpaying for him can be better justified then.

 

[Ace]

That's the bit no one considers. We're all using hindsight to rip TT for the Burnett deal. But, at the time, he was being pimped as the next great safety about to make the fourth year leap that Collins and Butler did. He had been above-average before the deal, which made it a smart extension if he had continued to improve. Unfortunately, Burnett had a terrible year this year and the deal looks horrible - as of now. So, technically, he is overpaid right now. But, if you truly consider the context, I don't think TT was wrong in signing the deal at the time. In contrast, the deal for Jones never really made sense from the get-go. So ripping TT for overpaying for him can be better justified then.

And for all the flac he gets for his bad contracts, how about Rodgers only having the 5th highest cap hit in 2014? Guys like Cutler, Ben, and Eli above him and Sam Bradford less then 300K below him.

Rodgers is the only reason this team has made the playoffs over the last few season and are a Super Bowl contender (kind of). And yes, TT deserves credit for drafting him and sticking with him in 2008.

Based on this shouldn't he be the highest paid player in the league? I think TT deserves credit for this.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Based on this shouldn't he be the highest paid player in the league? I think TT deserves credit for this.

The extension Rodgers signed last year makes him the highest paid player in the league on average, which he totally deserves IMO.

 

[BorderRivals.com]

I want Shields just as much as most people on this forum. But, every player has a price. And just because the Packers have a good amount of cap space, overpaying for a player is never a good idea. This is a good analogy from the MMQB article:

• Overpriced Flag: A Ford Taurus might be a fine car, but not if it costs as much as a Cadillac. And paying Cadillac money for the Taurus doesn’t make the Taurus a Cadillac. The same principle applies to football players. By March, every NFL team has a decent idea of what the market will be like. The players that teams allow to hit free agency are the ones that the team senses will be overpriced.

 

[OCBP]

The extension Rodgers signed last year makes him the highest paid player in the league on average, which he totally deserves IMO.

Agree with all. Rodgers is the best QB in the league and TT gets credit for drafting him, extending him and to some degree having the right coaches in place to assist in development. GB is lucky to have a great player and a great guy!

 

[TJV]

This is from an article linked from the Packers website:

Cornerback may be the deepest position on the market if nothing changes in the next few days, even with Miami’s Brent Grimes signing a long-term contract this week. His contract could help set the market for Tennessee’s Alterraun Verner, New England’s Aqib Talib, Indy’s Vontae Davis and Denver’s Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Others sure to attract early attention are Green Bay’s Sam Shields, Chicago’s Charles Tillman, Carolina’s Captain Munnerlyn and Seattle’s Walter Thurmond.

With San Francisco’s Tarell Brown and Baltimore’s Corey Graham on the next tier, there’s no shortage of experienced help available in a year when not many corners are being talked about at the top of the draft.

If the UFA market doesn't set Shields' price to the Packers' liking, I would like to see them sign their next choice at what they consider a reasonable price. We can hope House or Hayward could man that spot but I'd rather have another veteran cover CB on the roster.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I would argue though that if Sam does sign elsewhere, that that is a position that the Packers would be able to absorb. It would be a blow yes but with Tramon, Casey, House and Hyde I think we have some depth there.

I would argue that losing Shields leaves us EXTREMELY thin in the secondary. Our starting five in the nickel would Williams, Hayward, House, Burnett and Hyde. Williams and Burnett I'm not that worried about (Burnett had a terrible year last year but he played well prior to that so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt). Hayward needs to be able to show his hamstring issues aren't something to be worried about while House and Hyde need to get far more consistent. Also, Williams will be a free agent after next season and we'll be forced to start House or Hyde (assuming no free agents and that we don't find an anomaly in a starting corner in the draft next year) opposite Hayward if he leaves.

If Shields remains, the secondary would actually be able to withstand an injury (without Shields we're one injury away from disaster) and letting Williams walk if another team offers him too much.

Do you acknowledge that in spite of injuries GB had one of the more effective pass rush units in the league last season?

Two things:

1) End of November (so not including last few games) PFF looked at the pass rushing productivity of team defenses and the Packers were ranked tenth out of fifteen 3-4 defenses in the NFL (worth noting that the 4-3 defenses in the NFL are consistently better at applying pressure to the QB). https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/27/pass-rushing-productivity-team-defenses/

2) Packers were pretty beat up last year but the Patriots and Colts both had more players miss games than Green Bay. Arizona had more 16 game starters miss games than the Packers and overall only lost 3 fewer games to injury than Green Bay. So yeah, our injuries were bad, but not necessarily terrible compared to the rest of the league.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...-led-nfl-with-91-starter-games-lost-to-injury