Shields' talks heating up

[Ace]

I hope Shields does leave. Can't wait to hear ppl complain about how sorry the secondary is next yr! If he does leave please save this thread and post so I can bring it up.

So you want this thread saved so you can hear ppl complain about how sorry the secodary is so you can "bring it up" Some fan you are.

Take a step back and read this post as if you are a neutral observer. Does this look like the post of a Packers fan? The writer hopes a young talented player leaves the team, "can't wait to hear" complaints about how sorry the secondary is next year and apparently can't wait to rub Packers fans' noses in it.

Unbelievable joking or not.

 

[OCBP]

Take a step back and read this post as if you are a neutral observer. Does this look like the post of a Packers fan? The writer hopes a young talented player leaves the team, "can't wait to hear" complaints about how sorry the secondary is next year and apparently can't wait to rub Packers fans' noses in it.

I don't think it's a function of not being a Packer fan. It's an opinion that you have your best corner, one that should be loved because TT secured his talent at a reduced price and he stepped up. Additionally, he's your best secondary player. Additionally, you have plenty of cap space. Additionally, why is he paying Jones and Burnett the money he is playing them.

If it's $8M-$12M, let him go. If it's something less, pay the man. Particularly when the "D" is marginal.

 

[rodell330]

Take a step back and read this post as if you are a neutral observer. Does this look like the post of a Packers fan? The writer hopes a young talented player leaves the team, "can't wait to hear" complaints about how sorry the secondary is next year and apparently can't wait to rub Packers fans' noses in it.

Call it what you want I could care less.. But it Sounds like a fan who's fed up with having the best qb. in football get wasted because the side of the ball he can't control is the main reason the ring he won four yrs ago which fans are still living on May be the only one he gets. Or how about a fan who knows the defense is a few players away from being respectable yet may let young talent like Shields walk as one of your few playmakers.

 

[rodell330]

I don't think it's a function of not being a Packer fan. It's an opinion that you have your best corner, one that should be loved because TT secured his talent at a reduced price and he stepped up. Additionally, he's your best secondary player. Additionally, you have plenty of cap space. Additionally, why is he paying Jones and Burnett the money he is playing them.

If it's $8M-$12M, let him go. If it's something less, pay the man. Particularly when the "D" is marginal.

Exactly and that's all I'm saying, it's got nothing to do with bashing the team. That's a dumb statement all in itself smh.

 

[OCBP]

Call it what you want I could care less.. But it Sounds like a fan who's fed up with having the best qb. in football get wasted because the side of the ball he can't control is the main reason the ring he won four yrs ago which fans are still living on May be the only one he gets. Or how about a fan who knows the defense is a few players away from being respectable yet may let young talent like Shields walk as one of your few playmakers.

Amen! Let's move the current players around, hope that some of those on the roster magically step it up and draft and develop. I would be more pleased if TT would concentrate on bringing play makers in the "D" than, no disrespect to the WR's, extending Nelson and Cobb. When you have Rodgers throwing the ball, the receiving corp gets a multiplier. As Favre did, Rodgers makes those catching the ball better.

However, without a reliable defense and only one playmaker that gets neutralized because he is only one player, scoring points doesn't always compute to wins. See Lynn ****ey, James Lofton, John Jefferson and Paul Coffman.

 

[AmishMafia]

Remember this thread:

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/can-we-keep-all-our-upcoming-free-agents.35321/


3 years ago posters where panicking because we might lose some talent as FAs.

Can the Packers keep all their upcoming free agents?

Jennings
Raji
Lang
Matthews
Rodgers
Finley
Burnett

Should we expect to lose a star or two?

Jennings - Who cares? Cobb/Nelson/Jones really stepped up to the plate.
Raji - Wish we had lost him.
Lang - He is okay
Matthews - Resigned
Rodgers - Resigned
Finley - Resigned. Didn't earn his paycheck due to injuries.
Burnett - Resigning did not pay off.

We can't keep all of our FAs, but we will survive. We have a bunch of players on our roster right now, who are not starting, that in 3 years, we are going to be stressing about losing. 'How are we going to survive if we lose xxxxxx in free agency?'

 

[AmishMafia]

Call it what you want I could care less.. But it Sounds like a fan who's fed up with having the best qb. in football get wasted because the side of the ball he can't control is the main reason the ring he won four yrs ago which fans are still living on May be the only one he gets. Or how about a fan who knows the defense is a few players away from being respectable yet may let young talent like Shields walk as one of your few playmakers.

True.

But it would still make you happy if the Packer's fail. Or at least it sure sounds that way. This leads to the conclusion that the order of importance of things in your life appear to be:

1. Your ego
2. Hatred of TT
3. The Packers

 

[ivo610]

Remember this thread:

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/can-we-keep-all-our-upcoming-free-agents.35321/


3 years ago posters where panicking because we might lose some talent as FAs.



Jennings - Who cares? Cobb/Nelson/Jones really stepped up to the plate.
Raji - Wish we had lost him.
Lang - He is okay
Matthews - Resigned
Rodgers - Resigned
Finley - Resigned. Didn't earn his paycheck due to injuries.
Burnett - Resigning did not pay off.

We can't keep all of our FAs, but we will survive. We have a bunch of players on our roster right now, who are not starting, that in 3 years, we are going to be stressing about losing. 'How are we going to survive if we lose xxxxxx in free agency?'

It's a good thread to look back on. Long term planning is key

 

[TJV]

Exactly and that's all I'm saying, it's got nothing to do with bashing the team. That's a dumb statement all in itself smh.

Except that is not exactly what you said. You didn’t say anything close to that. You said you hoped Shields would go elsewhere (instead of finding out what his market value is and having the Packers retain him). You said you couldn’t wait to hear Packers fans complain about how sorry the secondary is (instead of being relieved Shields is back and even if he’s not, it’s improved). And you said you want this thread saved so you can rub it in, to Packers fans.

I didn’t call you a name. I just held up a mirror to your post (at least you disagreed with the mirror image!). Packers fans should be the ones shaking their heads at that post.

 

[rodell330]

True.

But it would still make you happy if the Packer's fail. Or at least it sure sounds that way. This leads to the conclusion that the order of importance of things in your life appear to be:

1. Your ego
2. Hatred of TT
3. The Packers

You got me lol . Smh I wish I could just be content with winning the North every yr like some of you guys! Enjoy being good instead of great! Here's to wearing rose colored

Except that is not exactly what you said. You didn’t say anything close to that. You said you hoped Shields would go elsewhere (instead of finding out what his market value is and having the Packers retain him). You said you couldn’t wait to hear Packers fans complain about how sorry the secondary is (instead of being relieved Shields is back and even if he’s not, it’s improved). And you said you want this thread saved so you can rub it in, to Packers fans.

I didn’t call you a name. I just held up a mirror to your post (at least you disagreed with the mirror image!). Packers fans should be the ones shaking their heads at that post.

I'm still going to sleep well tonight.

 

[packfan1]

It's not about what he's worth it's about what someone is willing to pay and Rosenhaus is king of getting teams to pay more then they should. Completely agree on Tramon restructuring but I don't think he "needs" to, it would be nice if he did though.

True statement...that "it's not about what he's worth it's about what someone is willing to pay..." ....my point agrees with this statement but also adds...let someone else overpay. I know we have 35 million, but that $ is gonna get eaten up fast once we extend Cobb and Nelson. ...Not to mention if Finley plays again...he got 8.75 M last season and I'm sure he's not gonna want much less than that. Also don't forget Bulaga is a FA and assuming he stays healthy he may get some $ also. That money isn't gonna go as far as people think...not to mention signing our draft picks. Let Shields walk if someone is gonna pay him crazy money.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

True statement...that "it's not about what he's worth it's about what someone is willing to pay..." ....my point agrees with this statement but also adds...let someone else overpay. I know we have 35 million, but that $ is gonna get eaten up fast once we extend Cobb and Nelson. ...Not to mention if Finley plays again...he got 8.75 M last season and I'm sure he's not gonna want much less than that. Also don't forget Bulaga is a FA and assuming he stays healthy he may get some $ also. That money isn't gonna go as far as people think...not to mention signing our draft picks. Let Shields walk if someone is gonna pay him crazy money.

I would like to preface this again by saying I am not advocating the Packers trade for or sign Jimmy Graham.

While what you said is true, the cap is projected to rise $27M over the next three years. Not to mention, Tramon Williams comes off the books, along with Brad Jones and other players (such as Morgan Burnett's cap hit going down). The next two, three, four years is totally unforeseeable.

Projected cap per Grantland (ESPN):

2014 (estimated) $133,000,000 8.1%
2015 (estimated) $140,000,000 5.3%
2016 (estimated) $150,000,000 7.1%

 

[Ace]

True statement...that "it's not about what he's worth it's about what someone is willing to pay..." ....my point agrees with this statement but also adds...let someone else overpay. I know we have 35 million, but that $ is gonna get eaten up fast once we extend Cobb and Nelson. ...Not to mention if Finley plays again...he got 8.75 M last season and I'm sure he's not gonna want much less than that. Also don't forget Bulaga is a FA and assuming he stays healthy he may get some $ also. That money isn't gonna go as far as people think...not to mention signing our draft picks. Let Shields walk if someone is gonna pay him crazy money.

I love Jermichael Finley and want him back and healthy but if he is asking for 8.75 Id tell him to pound sand. Hes going to have to settle for substantially less and an incentive laiden deal IMO.

I agree on Shields and the crazy money. I dont think hes back its just the reality of the NFL today. Teams will overpay, we wont and thats that.

 

[AmishMafia]

You got me lol . Smh I wish I could just be content with winning the North every yr like some of you guys! Enjoy being good instead of great! Here's to wearing rose colored

I would be happy if they won the north. I would be even happier if they won the SB.

You appear confused. I thought you were looking forward to them sucking?

 

[OCBP]

I love Jermichael Finley and want him back and healthy but if he is asking for 8.75 Id tell him to pound sand. Hes going to have to settle for substantially less and an incentive laiden deal IMO.

I agree on Shields and the crazy money. I dont think hes back its just the reality of the NFL today. Teams will overpay, we wont and thats that.

How can you say TT doesn't over pay when he has Kuhn, Jones, Burnett and Hawk on the roster. He's cheap and he plays favorites. There I said it.

Finley will not play in GB and it's looking like neither will Shields.

Draft and develop and that's that.

 

[adambr2]

Amen! Let's move the current players around, hope that some of those on the roster magically step it up and draft and develop. I would be more pleased if TT would concentrate on bringing play makers in the "D" than, no disrespect to the WR's, extending Nelson and Cobb. When you have Rodgers throwing the ball, the receiving corp gets a multiplier. As Favre did, Rodgers makes those catching the ball better.

However, without a reliable defense and only one playmaker that gets neutralized because he is only one player, scoring points doesn't always compute to wins. See Lynn ****ey, James Lofton, John Jefferson and Paul Coffman.

I'm not specifically advocating for letting Nelson or Cobb walk, but I think this is a really good point. People place so much emphasis around surrounding Rodgers with weapons. Look at what Tom Brady did in New England this year. No weapons. No Welker, no Hernandez, no Gronk most of the year, NOTHING. His best target, Julian Edelman, caught 32 passes COMBINED the last 3 seasons! Yet the Patriots had the #2 scoring offense in the NFL. Why? Because he's Tom Brady and he can.

Rodgers is the same. If you can catch a ball and run a route, he'll get you the ball. Would it really make sense to neglect the defense and pay starter money to all of Nelson, Cobb, Jones, and Finley when Rodgers does just fine with the Jarrett Boykins of the world?

They most likely won't let either of Cobb or Nelson walk, but I'd understand if they did let one, and I'm glad Greg Jennings didn't take our $10M a year offer.

 

[Ace]

How can you say TT doesn't over pay when he has Kuhn, Jones, Burnett and Hawk on the roster. He's cheap and he plays favorites. There I said it.

Finley will not play in GB and it's looking like neither will Shields.

Draft and develop and that's that.

There are people on these boards who have said Jones played really well prior to his injury.
Hawk took a significant pay cut
Burnett earned his deal just didnt live up to it
Kuhn... whatever were talking peanuts in the grand scheme of things when talking a fullbacks contract

 

[OCBP]

I'm not specifically advocating for letting Nelson or Cobb walk, but I think this is a really good point. People place so much emphasis around surrounding Rodgers with weapons. Look at what Tom Brady did in New England this year. No weapons. No Welker, no Hernandez, no Gronk most of the year, NOTHING. His best target, Julian Edelman, caught 32 passes COMBINED the last 3 seasons! Yet the Patriots had the #2 scoring offense in the NFL. Why? Because he's Tom Brady and he can.

Rodgers is the same. If you can catch a ball and run a route, he'll get you the ball. Would it really make sense to neglect the defense and pay starter money to all of Nelson, Cobb, Jones, and Finley when Rodgers does just fine with the Jarrett Boykins of the world?

They most likely won't let either of Cobb or Nelson walk, but I'd understand if they did let one, and I'm glad Greg Jennings didn't take our $10M a year offer.

Appreciate the comments and the data related to NE. Jennings is a great example. He was great with both Favre and Rodgers. He takes the money and goes to a team without a gun. He's got a great deal of pocket change but no stats.

When you have talent like Brady, P. Manning and Rodgers, they make any receiver, within reason, a Pro Bowl candidate. Just like Michael Jordan made obscure players great. I mean no disrespect to Nelson and Cobb--They are great athletes and want them to stay.

Problem is the "D" and Special Teams. Get one or two more playmakers on defense and role players with passion on special teams and we're right back in the SB picture.

 

[OCBP]

There are people on these boards who have said Jones played really well prior to his injury.
Hawk took a significant pay cut
Burnett earned his deal just didnt live up to it
Kuhn... whatever were talking peanuts in the grand scheme of things when talking a fullbacks contract

Are those four players over paid or not? Injuries, didn't live up to it, pay cut and peanuts. Bottom line GB does over pay for some that fit their desires.

 

[Ace]

Are those four players over paid or not? Injuries, didn't live up to it, pay cut and peanuts. Bottom line GB does over pay for some that fit their desires.

So you would say then that CM is overpaid then?

 

[OCBP]

So you would say then that CM is overpaid then?

No. I think Clay Matthews is a victim of draft and develop. He is a Pro Bowl talent and a proven playmaker. The problem is NFL offenses have been able to neutralize him because he has no other front seven players that have had consistent impact. When you had Woodson, not necessarily saying TT should have paid him--Although he did have a nice season with the Raiders--he was able to navigate the field with less resistance. GB needs another playmaker or two on defense not another offensive weapon. Also need consistent special teams play.

All pretty obvious.

 

[DevilDon]

No. I think Clay Matthews is a victim of draft and develop. He is a Pro Bowl talent and a proven playmaker. The problem is NFL offenses have been able to neutralize him because he has no other front seven players that have had consistent impact. When you had Woodson, not necessarily saying TT should have paid him--Although he did have a nice season with the Raiders--he was able to navigate the field with less resistance. GB needs another playmaker or two on defense not another offensive weapon. Also need consistent special teams play.

All pretty obvious.

Obvious? Losing offensive weapons is a sure way to negate the one strength the Packers have. You're advocating for weakening the offense to strengthen the defense. I'm not seeing how that is a good exchange.
I think the obvious course is to maintain your great offense and fix the defense. But that's just my humble opinion.

 

[OCBP]

Obvious? Losing offensive weapons is a sure way to negate the one strength the Packers have. You're advocating for weakening the offense to strengthen the defense. I'm not seeing how that is a good exchange.
I think the obvious course is to maintain your great offense and fix the defense. But that's just my humble opinion.

If I insinuated or if you interpreted that I said to weaken the offense, I apologize.

GB needs to sign their center and avoid the mistakes of drafting ineffective OL players. The skill positions are solid. Sign Nelson and Cobb. Secure a reasonable talent at TE--I think Finley is gone. If Rodgers stays healthy, with Lacy and some luck with health on the OL all is good.

Fix the defense and special teams and you're in business. All pretty obvious.

 

[JBlood]

Nobody drafts "ineffective players" on purpose. The art of drafting is recognizing a real player vs a washout. Easy to say; difficult to do. TT is as good as any GM, imo. Now, if he could just come up with a miracle anti-injury pill he'd be better than any other GM.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Remember this thread:

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/can-we-keep-all-our-upcoming-free-agents.35321/


3 years ago posters where panicking because we might lose some talent as FAs.



Jennings - Who cares? Cobb/Nelson/Jones really stepped up to the plate.
Raji - Wish we had lost him.
Lang - He is okay
Matthews - Resigned
Rodgers - Resigned
Finley - Resigned. Didn't earn his paycheck due to injuries.
Burnett - Resigning did not pay off.

We can't keep all of our FAs, but we will survive. We have a bunch of players on our roster right now, who are not starting, that in 3 years, we are going to be stressing about losing. 'How are we going to survive if we lose xxxxxx in free agency?'

Here's the problem with that analogy; in the prior thread from 3 years ago, we actually managed to keep the two most important guys from free agency (I'll let everyone guess who I'm talking about). In this year's free agency, when we have a TON of cap room, we've managed to not keep ANY of our players from free agency (though I will admit that Shields is the only one I really think was necessary).

A starting secondary (and keep in mind that a slot corner is a starting player in the NFL today) of Williams, Hyde, Hayward, Burnett and House is not going to cut it against teams that like to pass like the Lions and Bears.

The other thing to remember is that we don't really have a wealth of good players on defense, so every one that we lose is one that needs to be replaced in the draft. If Hyde turns out to be a good corner then we're OK this year (no better, no worse) but next year we're screwed because Williams may leave. Letting Shields walk is a huge step back because of all the ripples that occur if he leaves. Suddenly the team can't afford for Hayward to miss ANY games this year. House MUST get more consistent so that he can play a lot of snaps this season and potentially replace Williams next season. Our draft board adds one more position of need to a list that already has too many needs and not enough draft picks. Our defense is what's holding this team back and every year it takes to get it settled is another wasted year of Rodgers' prime. Letting a young, good corner with the potential to be one of the best corners in the NFL walk isn't the way to go about rebuilding a defense.