1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Scott Walker, Unions, the bill, protesting

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by ivo610, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. PackersPete

    PackersPete Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    84
    Ratings:
    +27
    It IS political payback and I LOVE it! Reap what you sow, right? Unions want to get into the dirty business of politics, right? Right. ALL is fair in love and war and especially in politics. The police and firefighters Unions aren't stupid. They saw the writing on the wall and that's why they helped elect Walker. Wisconsin has needed a guy like Walker for a long, long time.

    I remember being a wee little lad in Illinois the day that 10,000+ motorcyclists showed up at the state capitol in Wisconsin one day and said " **** YOU!!!!!! " regarding mandatory helmet laws.
     
  2. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,029
    Ratings:
    +678
    Found this source to maybe clarify this perception that is very widespread. I think there might be a bit of misinformation spreading about this - if I wasn't a news junkie (I'm not in Wisconsin), I wouldn't have been aware of it either. WQOW:

    Questions have been raised about why police and fire employees were left out of Walker's proposal. Some of the governor's critics have suggested the exemption is payback for endorsement or contributions the unions made to Walker during his campaign.

    "One thing I want to get out is our union didn't support him," said Drath. While some smaller police and fire unions did endorse the governor, the two largest state unions representing them did not. "We both supported governor Walker's opponent so to think that this is somehow a deal or a quid pro quo, there's no basis for that," said Jim Palmer, executive director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,743
    Ratings:
    +2,983
    How bout the Democrats that RAN away from their job?

    They were elected by the public do to a certain JOB.....They dont agree with doing that job, so they run to Illinois to avoid it all..

    Heard a reporter on the radio that found one of these guys and asked a question on the air.....Why arent you back in Wi to do the job you were voted to do...

    Person had no answer

    I would be demanding a recall....

    Even if you dont agree with Walkers tactics, at least he is trying to do his job..
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,029
    Ratings:
    +678
    It's interesting that Joe Klein - a man who is certainly no conservative - has written this piece for the blog at TIME Magazine. Here's a little bit:

    An election was held in Wisconsin last November. The Republicans won. In a democracy, there are consequences to elections and no one, not even the public employees unions, are exempt from that. There are no guarantees that labor contracts, including contracts governing the most basic rights of unions, can't be renegotiated, or terminated for that matter. We hold elections to decide those basic parameters. And it seems to me that Governor Scott Walker's basic requests are modest ones--asking public employees to contribute more to their pension and health care plans, though still far less than most private sector employees do. He is also trying to limit the unions' abilities to negotiate work rules--and this is crucial when it comes to the more efficient operation of government in a difficult time. When I covered local government in New York 30 years ago, the school janitors (then paid a robust $60,000 plus per year) had negotiated the "right" to mop the cafeteria floors only once a week. And we all know about the near-impossibility of getting criminal and morally questionable--to say nothing of less than competent--teachers fired. The negotiation of such contracts were acts of collusion rather than of mediation. Government officials were, in effect, bribing their most activist constituents.

    Public employees unions are an interesting hybrid. Industrial unions are organized against the might and greed of ownership. Public employees unions are organized against the might and greed...of the public?

     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. PackersPete

    PackersPete Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    84
    Ratings:
    +27
    Thanks for the link, LombardiChick. I've been hearing for 4 days now that the Police & Fire Unions have been exempted BECAUSE of their endorsement of Walker. Thanks for setting the record straight. I just watched a repeat of AC 360 and he pretty much said the same thing you did in the reply above this one. By walking out on their job, these "Democratic" legislators have usurped the democracy their supposed to be upholding. They're taking their ball and going home after they don't like the time-out rule change. Spolied brats it seems to me.

    I agree 100% with longtimefan as well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Powarun

    Powarun Big Bay Blues fan

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2,028
    Ratings:
    +416
    I just wanted to chime in that the many, many people doing the protesting today and yesterday are out of state and were transported up here by unions throughout the USA to join in.

    Also those cowardly democrats are doing no different than the stupid teachers out there that figure, **** them. Our Democrats are the Cutler of Wisconsin.

    Also I saw a "I blame Favre sign." Who didn't guess he would get dragged into it. LOL
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,221
    Ratings:
    +847
    2010. President Obama, the Senate and House democrats ram "Obmacare" down the throats of the country. Republicans cry foul. They say it's against peoples rights to make them buy medical care. Democrats don't care and vote it in anyway.

    2011. Gov Walker and the WI Senate and House are now attempting to do pretty much the same thing with the bill in WI. The Democrats are crying foul. The say you can't take away the "rights" of the people in the unions. The Republicans don't seem to care and will probably vote it in anyway.

    Anyone else see the Irony in this?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. dantastic

    dantastic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +43
    Thanks for the link LombardiChick. I appreciate that. There were still departments though that contributed
    money to his campain and even though the two largest didn't, that doesn't mean there weren't dozens out
    there. Not too mention we don't know the dollar amounts given either. I'm going to go dig around for that info.


    Look, I worked at a union shop for years in the printing industry. It sucked. They are overpaid and
    uneducated. What I'm talking about are the teachers. The people who take care of our kids, pay
    for supplies out of their own pockets because budgets are cut. Work long hours and deal with pain
    in the *** helicopter parents or just parents who don't give a sh*t. We need to take care of them.
    The future of our nation depends on it.

    I have to say, I can't believe how ridiculous this has all become. Democrats leaving the state?? Just unreal.
    The democrats should be at work. We elected them to be our voice. Go in and vote no. Do your job that you
    are being paid and going to be collecting a pension for. That's another great question. Are the polititians
    taking a hit on any of this??


    The unions are willing to negotiate on benefits. They don't want to give up their collective bargaining rights.
    To me, this is about the fight for more goverment control. Which we don't need. One of the reasons my wife
    and I stayed in the state is because of it's great schools. I have 3 kids and I'm deeply concerned about the
    future of education here in the state.


    I hope Walker realizes that he's most likely one and done. Moderates, like myself, will turn on him just like
    they did with Doyle (who sucked too) That high speed train plan was ill conceived.
     
  9. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,834
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    Is the irony that Republicrats first say "it's against peoples rights to make them buy medical care" and now they are trying to make them buy or spend more through the job benefits?
     
  10. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,029
    Ratings:
    +678
    I think the idea is that no one likes something forced upon them, but their position on that always seems to depend on which side is in power.

    I think, though, that polls show that the majority of Americans - even though Obama was elected with a majority - do not want to be forced to purchase health insurance, particularly when that mandate will be enforced by the IRS.

    Many don't think it's constitutional for the federal government to require Americans to make a purchase, and that's part of what Obamacare does.

    Here, I'm not sure what popular opinion is. The union is pretty loud, but the citizens of Wisconsin voted the red (Republican) team in to fix the state's fiscal problems - so I would imagine the governor has the support of the majority of voters in Wisconsin.

    I could be wrong.

    P.S. dantastic: I think I heard Walker say that he was actually endorsed by only a handful of the unions, out of a very large number. I find that very believable, but it seems like the media would have easy access to that information - why aren't they reporting it? As for the amount, both sides take money - I guess you know what you're getting if you elect either a Republican or a Democrat, regardless of those things - at least you should. (I don't mean "you" specifically - I mean any voter. Each side's way of dealing with things is fairly well established, you know?)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,244
    Ratings:
    +4,116
    I was down there today too. Pretty funny sh*t. Saw the Favre sign. ALSO saw a family full in favre jerseys. Husband - jets jersey Wife - Vikings jersey kid- packers kid-packers. Best part was the 3 year old girl starting to cry cause she didnt want to wear the favre jersey.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  12. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,029
    Ratings:
    +678
    Awesome. LOL
     
  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,743
    Ratings:
    +2,983
    Dont agree with this..Is it ethical?

    Yes employers do not have the right to know the
    sickness...

    But can this doctor be given out excuses, and still be ethical?

    Doctors hand out notes excusing protesters for illness - JSOnline

     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,029
    Ratings:
    +678
    I think those doctors should lose their licenses. At first, I thought it was a prank - that they weren't doctors at all, because I couldn't imagine someone being so stupid...but they are.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. PackersPete

    PackersPete Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    84
    Ratings:
    +27
    I talk mostly politics on FB and I pointed this out to my Liberal Union friends. They didn't have much of an answer as usual....lol :icon_biggrin:
     
  16. PackersPete

    PackersPete Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    84
    Ratings:
    +27
    People like me will gladly move back to Wisconsin to support Walker if it remotely appears he'll lose the next Governor's Race. Libefrals like to stick to their own? That's fine. I'm an Independent. I sit on that fence and choose how green my lawn is going to be.
     
  17. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,244
    Ratings:
    +4,116
    I dont see walker having much of a chance at getting reelected imo.
     
  18. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    So you're unbiased. You aren't as brainwashed as everyone else.
    You think for yourself, don't just get force-fed beliefs, ideas, and opinions.

    In my opinion, that's the only side I respect fully. You have the power to decide for yourself.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    Totally true. But leaving the state is better than suing the state right?
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsH8xvjTAlo]YouTube - Obama and Holder taking on Arizona's SB1070[/ame]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. dantastic

    dantastic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +43
    Here is some insight from one of the Democrats who left

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZsOKNfNkfQ]YouTube - Representative Gordon Hintz on the "Budget repair bill"[/ame]
     
  21. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,221
    Ratings:
    +847
    Same thing is happening with the National health-care bill. One of the biggest Unions in the country has received an "exemption" so they don't have to comply with the provisions of the bill. Needless to say they gave $27 million to Obama's campaign.

    I wonder, how many people protesting in Madison were upset that "Obamacare" was forced down our throats?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. dantastic

    dantastic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +43
    I don't agree with everything she says (way to liberal for me), but there are some interesting points here.


    msnbc.com Video Player
     
  23. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,244
    Ratings:
    +4,116
  24. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,029
    Ratings:
    +678
    Followed a link on Twitter to this. (There is a piece in JSOnline that says basically the same - lost the link but I can find it if I need to.) There's an interesting video here, as well.

    I find it amazing that anyone would say it's not about money. It's obviously a talking point among public union members. It may be about more than money, but it most certainly is "about money", on both sides. I can't help thinking: "A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon we're talking about real money."

    As a side note: From what I understand, the bill would make union membership optional - and I think that's what really frightens the union leadership.

    Oh well. We have similar issues here, but here, we're just spending with little apparent regard for trying to solve the problem for the long term. This just can't end well, but maybe Wisconsin can figure it out. I sure hope so.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. PackersPete

    PackersPete Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    84
    Ratings:
    +27
    You could give me ANY Hot Topic Issue facing this nation today and my thoughts on them would ALL be based on common sense, not the Party Line that tells me I must listen to their brand of self-serving rhetoric. :thumbsup:
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page