Sam Barrington

[gopkrs]

Well if Barrington plays as well as he did against the Patriots then he should play.

 

[rodell330]

Hey it had to be done...the Packers have to find a solution for tightends and especially good ones. AJ Hawk is a major liability covering anyone so apparently the staff feels more confident in having Barrington and Matthews out there . AJ barely played.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

ILB and DT were my top priorities in last years draft. That is again the case at this juncture. While I thought the C-D pick was OK, Hyde looked to be adequate for the S spot.

I doubt both Hawk and Jones will be released. Experience at the position would awfully thin:

- Barrington with about 1/2 season's play under his belt; he still needs to get better
- Lattimore who failed to make the jump and is a just-a-guy special teamer who will be a FA after this season
- Carl Bradford who had a disappointing camp, has not taken an NFL snap, and will be switching from outside to inside (maybe)
- Matthews part-time (maybe)
- unproven rookie or rookies

There's a ton of performance uncertainty with those first 3 guys along with any draft pick at the position.

I don't think Thompson can afford to go big in FA agency again, and he never seems to plow the middle ground for solid-if-unspectacular guys.

I agree with ThxJV...I'd not be surprised if either Hawk or Jones is back, with the edge going to Hawk given that he's still getting snaps.

It's also helpful to remember that Thompson hates dead cap; I have a hard time seeing him take the hit on both Hawk and Jones.

I think a lot of it depends on if the team plans on using Matthews inside for next season as well and if Matthews buys into the move long term. In addition a rookie is capable of having an impact at the position, just take a look at Mosley and Borland this year.

It will be tough to justify keeping Hawk for a $5.1 million cap hit as there is no denying he´s a liability in coverage (can´t that the play vs. the Vikings out of my head limped Kyle Rudolph was able to get away from him without any trouble).

 

[PikeBadger]

I like Barrington's physicality and aggression. I expect he'll make mistakes as he learns, just like everyone else. I think Hawk will be back next year unless he retires. Don't expect to see Jones or Lattimore back though. Bradford will continue to be groomed.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think a lot of it depends on if the team plans on using Matthews inside for next season as well and if Matthews buys into the move long term. In addition a rookie is capable of having an impact at the position, just take a look at Mosley and Borland this year.

It will be tough to justify keeping Hawk for a $5.1 million cap hit as there is no denying he´s a liability in coverage (can´t that the play vs. the Vikings out of my head limped Kyle Rudolph was able to get away from him without any trouble).

I would guess Capers likes having the option of moving Matthews around for different looks and match ups. The mix would depend on how the other guys (new and existing) shape up by the end of next preseason.

The Hawk and Jones contracts taken together are a problem. It's too much money for what they do and it's a fair amount of dead cap. I suppose they could renegotiate Hawk's last year into a 2 year deal at a reduced amount per year in keeping with a rotational/reserve player while taking the dead cap hit on Jones. There is no ideal solution.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Hawk and Jones contracts taken together are a problem. It's too much money for what they do and it's a fair amount of dead cap. I suppose they could renegotiate Hawk's last year into a 2 year deal at a reduced amount per year in keeping with a rotational/reserve player while taking the dead cap hit on Jones. There is no ideal solution.

Even if the Packers renegotiate Hawk´s contract the way you suggested and don´t add any new money he would still count $3.35 million towards the cap for next season. A lot of money for a guy with his production.

 

[El Guapo]

Jones will be gone. There is no reason to keep him. I admit to being a Jones supporter based on the way that he started last season, but he has been atrocious since returning from his mid-season injury in 2013.

Hawk will be around one way or another, restructured contract or otherwise. He is a veteran presence and will be used to transition in new ILBs, teach them the defense, and play situationally or as a backup.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Even if the Packers renegotiate Hawk´s contract the way you suggested and don´t add any new money he would still count $3.35 million towards the cap for next season. A lot of money for a guy with his production.

Yes, but that would be $3.35 mil vs. a $1.6 mil dead cap hit, so it's $1.75 mil in replacement cost.

Jones and Hawk are a problem with no easy solution.

A lot will depend on how free agent negotiations work out, how the draft board shakes out, and what the 2015 cap number looks like. I see speculations of $140 mil for 2015 and as much as $160 mil in 2016.

A Super Bowl win could open the door to some "creative destruction" on the defensive side. A close-but-no-cookie result would argue for more backing and filling. Who knows...Peppers should be a very rich man and Hawk well funded...one or the other or both might decide to retire with a ring.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, but that would be $3.35 mil vs. a $1.6 mil dead cap hit, so it's $1.75 mil in replacement cost.

That's true.

A Super Bowl win could open the door to some "creative destruction" on the defensive side. A close-but-no-cookie result would argue for more backing and filling. Who knows...Peppers should be a very rich man and Hawk well funded...one or the other or both might decide to retire with a ring.

I could see Peppers retiring if he gets a ring this year, don't think Hawk is pondering retirement though (although it's possible no team will offer him to play anymore).

 

[adambr2]

Yes, but that would be $3.35 mil vs. a $1.6 mil dead cap hit, so it's $1.75 mil in replacement cost.

Jones and Hawk are a problem with no easy solution.

A lot will depend on how free agent negotiations work out, how the draft board shakes out, and what the 2015 cap number looks like. I see speculations of $140 mil for 2015 and as much as $160 mil in 2016.

A Super Bowl win could open the door to some "creative destruction" on the defensive side. A close-but-no-cookie result would argue for more backing and filling. Who knows...Peppers should be a very rich man and Hawk well funded...one or the other or both might decide to retire with a ring.

Jones has an easy solution. Cut him after this year. He's got a potential $4.75M cap hit vs. $1M of dead money for cutting him. It's probably the biggest no-brainer personnel move of the offseason.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Jones has an easy solution. Cut him after this year. He's got a potential $4.75M cap hit vs. $1M of dead money for cutting him. It's probably the biggest no-brainer personnel move of the offseason.

I agree. Hawk and Jones taken together is the problem...2 dead cappers at the same position.

 

[TJV]

Jones and Hawk are a problem with no easy solution.

After this season I hope Matthews continues to get snaps in the middle. The number will probably fluctuate but with all the talk in past seasons about moving him around, the recent change has been most successful. Why not use his sideline to sideline pursuit from the middle at least 20-25% percent of the time? At least until they develop two very good ILBs.

I understand the security blanket Hawk provides the coaching staff with the combination of his availability (not an insignificant attribute) and coach-on-the-field playbook knowledge. So I don’t think they’ll jettison him this coming off season, but IMO the reason should not have anything to do with the cap. I think we’re all assuming the Packers will say goodbye to Brad Jones. That’s $1M of dead cap money but $3.75M in cap savings. If they waive Hawk too those numbers go to $2.6M and $7.25M respectively. Thompson has done a good job limiting the amount of dead money – he’s avoided the huge dead money hit for one player. But dead money only affects the cap one year, so aren’t the cap savings gained in the dead money transactions also a very important consideration? In the very unlikely event the Packers get rid of both Hawk and Jones, they could have Barrington continue to start with Clay continue to move around as he’s been doing. They would just have to replace Hawk’s snaps if they didn’t want Barrington to be on the field full time. In addition they could re-sign Lattimore for little money and they’d have Bradford, Thomas, and Palmer all with a season’s worth of being in the playbook. Too bad they didn’t start Bradford at ILB right away but they finally moved him there. Thomas is on the PS and Palmer, although he played OLB his build seems a better fit at ILB, is on IR. Just listing players isn’t a sign of depth – particularly when they have no experience. If that decision were made, I would expect a rookie selected in the third round or earlier to be added to the group. And if Thompson could sign a journeyman ILB as insurance they’d still have cap savings left over to help with keeping Peppers, Bulaga, etc.

Again, I don't expect them to get rid of Hawk but keeping him shouldn't be mainly based on the cap IMO.

 

[Carl]

There were a few plays Barrington did not do well also. During the Pats TD run, he ended up on the ground twice. He also was on the ground on Blount's 13 yard run on 3rd and 1 and he seemed to stop playing like he thought Blount was already down.

That being said, those two tackles in a row on the Pats' 1st drive are plays AJ probably does not make. I'd like to see Barrington keep playing and I'm excited to see if he can improve a lot with more playing time.

 

[HardRightEdge]

After this season I hope Matthews continues to get snaps in the middle. The number will probably fluctuate but with all the talk in past seasons about moving him around, the recent change has been most successful. Why not use his sideline to sideline pursuit from the middle at least 20-25% percent of the time? At least until they develop two very good ILBs.

25% seems fair. I'd rather not see him at Will backer, though, crashing the line the way he's been used this season. It detracts from the sideline-to-sideline potential and increases injury risk.

Matthews was moved to the middle to slow down the run game, not the best use of that asset, but desperate times call for desperate measures. It seems past efforts in giving him snaps in the middle were to get blitz pressure from inside. This is a whole different thing.

 

[HardRightEdge]

There were a few plays Barrington did not do well also. During the Pats TD run, he ended up on the ground twice. He also was on the ground on Blount's 13 yard run on 3rd and 1 and he seemed to stop playing like he thought Blount was already down.

That being said, those two tackles in a row on the Pats' 1st drive are plays AJ probably does not make. I'd like to see Barrington keep playing and I'm excited to see if he can improve a lot with more playing time.

Yup, he has work to do. It's just so refreshing to have a guy who can lay some wood playing in the middle of this finess-ey, often poor-tackling back 7.

As some of you know, I watch a lot of Bills games since moving to that market in 2012. Last year they gave up a lot of yards on the ground. This year, the run D is much improved with a single personnel change...replacing Alonzo at ILB with Spikes picked up in free agency. (Alonzo ended up on IR with rookie Brown taking his spot outside). The D line still plays in hell-bent-for-leather penetration mode, but having Spikes out there as a two-down enforcer has made a tremendous difference.

While Spikes may be the nastiest man in the league at that position and in that limited role, Barrington might be the man to fill the physical hole in the middle that's been lacking since Bishop got injured. Barrington looks like he's decent in coverage as well.

He's got a lot to learn, though, to get to "polished player" status.

 

[Mklangelo]

He did a great job, overall. Was a step up from Hawk in a lot of ways. Maybe we will continue to see more of him.

I think Barrington deserves more playing time.

He is more aggressive and mobile than Hawk.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Pete Dougherty´s take about it:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...herty/2014/12/04/time-bench-aj-hawk/19932421/

 

[rondon57]

What good is it to play up to the level if you don't know the scheme? What you need is someone that does both really well, which is a rare trait. If Barrington can learn the scheme better and his role, he will succeed. Unfortunately that's easier said than done, and not always attainable for some players. Inherent brains are just as important as athletics.

Many times I have heard the saying that 80% of being a great athlete is upstairs,yes that is the difficult part, finding that combination of physical and mental prowess.That is why NFL teams are interested in the Wonderlic scores.As far as Sam Barrington vs. A.J. Hawk , a horse apiece.But if GB can get players like Barrington to be assignment sure it would be an upgrade.Hawk has seen his better days and the Packers staff knows that,look for a new starter at ILB maybe yet this year and for sure next year.

 

[rondon57]

ILB and DT were my top priorities in last years draft. That is again the case at this juncture. While I thought the C-D pick was OK, Hyde looked to be adequate for the S spot.

I doubt both Hawk and Jones will be released. Experience at the position would awfully thin:

- Barrington with about 1/2 season's play under his belt; he still needs to get better
- Lattimore who failed to make the jump and is a just-a-guy special teamer who will be a FA after this season
- Carl Bradford who had a disappointing camp, has not taken an NFL snap, and will be switching from outside to inside (maybe)
- Matthews part-time (maybe)
- unproven rookie or rookies

There's a ton of performance uncertainty with those first 3 guys along with any draft pick at the position.

I don't think Thompson can afford to go big in FA agency again, and he never seems to plow the middle ground for solid-if-unspectacular guys.

I agree with ThxJV...I'd not be surprised if either Hawk or Jones is back, with the edge going to Hawk given that he's still getting snaps.

It's also helpful to remember that Thompson hates dead cap; I have a hard time seeing him take the hit on both Hawk and Jones.

This all simply comes down to how big of a jump these young players make,it is quite obvious Hawk and Jones can't get it done but GB is stuck with them till their contracts expire.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This all simply comes down to how big of a jump these young players make,it is quite obvious Hawk and Jones can't get it done but GB is stuck with them till their contracts expire.

The Packers could release both Hawk and Jones after this season and save $7.25 million in cap space by doing it.

 

[rondon57]

The Packers could release both Hawk and Jones after this season and save $7.25 million in cap space by doing it.

O.k. well that doesn't bode well for those two if someone steps up at ILB.

 

[TJV]

IMO someone already has stepped up: Barrington.

As far as Sam Barrington vs. A.J. Hawk , a horse apiece.

I disagree. If you’re talking about the mental aspect of the game, Hawk is clearly much better. If you’re talking about the physical aspect of the game Barrington is miles ahead of Hawk. The Dougherty article captainWIMM posted the link to explains it pretty well IMO. As Dougherty says, unless Hawk is suffering from an undisclosed injury, he should be relegated to a backup role. Incredibly he appears to have lost speed and quickness even after losing weight. Here’s a quote from that article:

On one play in the second quarter, tight end Rob Gronkowski blocked Hawk back several yards, and safety Ha Ha Clinton-Dix had to push Hawk to the ground so he could make the tackle.

It’s bad enough Hawk has to dive at RB’s feet, having to be pushed out of the way by a teammate... As Dougherty says, Hawks been incredibly durable and he knows the D like a coach. But he’s become a liability.

 

[Half Empty]

The Packers could release both Hawk and Jones after this season and save $7.25 million in cap space by doing it.

True, and then it's a case of who TT gets to replace them and how much of that those guys eat up.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

True, and then it's a case of who TT gets to replace them and how much of that those guys eat up.

It's probable that Thompson would replace Hawk and Jones with draft picks only if he decides to part ways with both of them.

 

[rondon57]

True, and then it's a case of who TT gets to replace them and how much of that those guys eat up.

I was a bit surprised TT grabbed Peppers for OLB but hey,good pickup and if Hawk and Jones are let go will TT go out there again for a FA at ILB or go with one of his guys,same with NT? We all know he likes his draft picks over FA.He might just sit tight and hope one of his guys learns the positions by next year but he will pick a guy or two in the draft if it's a value pick.TT doesn't hang on to too many players when they get long in the tooth.Hawk is past that and I never saw anything in Brad Jones.