Safeties

[Dylan Hoppe]

But Joyner DID play some CF in college. He usually played Shortfield when he played Safety though.

Just saying, Avery Patterson played a deep safety role in multiple games during his final season of school..


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[Deleted member 6794]

But Joyner DID play some CF in college. He usually played Shortfield when he played Safety though.

Joyner could play multiple positions in the defensive backfield, still his best fit would be at corner.

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

Joyner could play multiple positions in the defensive backfield, still his best fit would be at corner.

Would still be a good fit on our team. More of a role player not a starter IMO


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[Dylan Hoppe]

I know this doesn't fit the topic at all but I don't wanna create a whole new thread. I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything at all about a restructure for Tramon? The topic hasn't been brought up lately and I've heard nothing in the news.


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[HyponGrey]

I know this doesn't fit the topic at all but I don't wanna create a whole new thread. I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything at all about a restructure for Tramon? The topic hasn't been brought up lately and I've heard nothing in the news.


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He's in the last year of his contract, so no; because it wouldn't be a restructure, it would be an extension.

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

He's in the last year of his contract, so no; because it wouldn't be a restructure, it would be an extension.

Couldn't they basically change his contract to spread his money out over a few years and add a signing bonus to all three years of the new contract? I don't know much about the finance part of football but I thought that's what a restructure was.


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[Deleted member 6794]

That's just semantics. Of course they'd prefer to have the best free safety in the NFL, but barring that they would rather have variability in the defense rather than be forced to play a mediocre guy at free safety on EVERY snap. In a perfect world you'd have two safeties like the Seahawks that are phenomenal at each role. Well, it's not realistic to plan your defense around having guys like that, not when it's easy enough to change your mind later if you find two guys like that.

Well, the thing is though that when not having a great FS you have to play two mediocre guys deep. That means the guy best suited to line up near the LOS has to play out of position and you can't put an extra defender in the box.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I know this doesn't fit the topic at all but I don't wanna create a whole new thread. I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything at all about a restructure for Tramon? The topic hasn't been brought up lately and I've heard nothing in the news.

He's in the last year of his contract, so no; because it wouldn't be a restructure, it would be an extension.

Of course the Packers could restructure Tramon's contract. They would have to turn his $7.5 million base salary for this season into a signing bonus (cap hit would be prorated over the length of the contract).

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

Of course the Packers could restructure Tramon's contract. They would have to turn his $7.5 million base salary for this season into a signing bonus (cap hit would be prorated over the length of the contract).

They may just want to turn the page. Next year were going to be begging for a CB in the draft like safety last year, it won't be addressed (via house) and we'll be in the same situation at corner 2 years from now as safety last year. I can see it already.


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[HyponGrey]

Well, the thing is though that when not having a great FS you have to play two mediocre guys deep. That means the guy best suited to line up near the LOS has to play out of position and you can't put an extra defender in the box.

BMTA.

 

[brandon2348]

Absolutely agree with that.



Zook was named assistant special teams coach, not sure how he´ll be able to help with the safeties.

That's his position title. I think he is much more involved in talent evaluation then one might believe.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's his position title. I think he is much more involved in talent evaluation then one might believe.

No idea what makes you believe in that.

 

[brandon2348]

No idea what makes you believe in that.

In his interview he kind of hinted he would be doing various things but I am just saying I hope he is involved. He a good proven talent evaluator IMO.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Well, the thing is though that when not having a great FS you have to play two mediocre guys deep. That means the guy best suited to line up near the LOS has to play out of position and you can't put an extra defender in the box.

You're assuming that the guy playing out of position is terrible at it, and you're also assuming that the change of free safeties is providing no advantage to the defense. What if the QB takes an extra second to hold the ball because the coverage isn't what he thought it was? What if the better coverage safety surprises the blocking scheme because he doesn't generally do that and gets to the QB unblocked? There's a reason that coaches like players that can do multiple things.

 

[HyponGrey]

You're assuming that the guy playing out of position is terrible at it, and you're also assuming that the change of free safeties is providing no advantage to the defense. What if the QB takes an extra second to hold the ball because the coverage isn't what he thought it was? What if the better coverage safety surprises the blocking scheme because he doesn't generally do that and gets to the QB unblocked? There's a reason that coaches like players that can do multiple things.

If you can't have a guy that does everything well, get a guy who can do the important things well to fulfill his specialized role, and let him get better at everything else.

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

If you can't have a guy that does everything well, get a guy who can do the important things well to fulfill his specialized role, and let him get better at everything else.

This is why we have moved on from kickers playing kick returner/fullback/even quarterback. This game is a specialized sport and saying a strong safety could interchange with a free safety is basically putting a small linebacker in a single high safety role. Imagine somebody like Jamari Lattimore.. A slim linebacker as a FS. Crazy huh? Put him in the box as a run supporter (classify as SS)
Not the best idea necessarily but a lot more chance he succeeds...obviously


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[Dylan Hoppe]

Better example Sean Richardson who actually did used to play linebacker


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[Dylan Hoppe]

You're assuming that the guy playing out of position is terrible at it, and you're also assuming that the change of free safeties is providing no advantage to the defense. What if the QB takes an extra second to hold the ball because the coverage isn't what he thought it was? What if the better coverage safety surprises the blocking scheme because he doesn't generally do that and gets to the QB unblocked? There's a reason that coaches like players that can do multiple things.

What makes you think you can't send a FS on a blitz?? Teams do it all the time. Even double safety blitz. It's just a risky play and you have to hope that someone gets to the quarterback before a WR gets over the top where the FS would NORMALLY be covering. That really has nothing to do with being interchangeable.


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[Deleted member 6794]

You're assuming that the guy playing out of position is terrible at it, and you're also assuming that the change of free safeties is providing no advantage to the defense. What if the QB takes an extra second to hold the ball because the coverage isn't what he thought it was?

I don´t think there is any advantage if a team has a great FS to play the SS as a single high safety. That doesn´t change the coverage scheme but puts two players out of position and none of them is doing what they do best.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

What makes you think you can't send a FS on a blitz?? Teams do it all the time. Even double safety blitz. It's just a risky play and you have to hope that someone gets to the quarterback before a WR gets over the top where the FS would NORMALLY be covering. That really has nothing to do with being interchangeable.


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The discussion is whether coaches are lying when they say they would like to have two safeties that are interchangeable. There is no question that coaches would prefer that. The only reason you would think otherwise would be that you are making the assumption that it means that neither is any good at one aspect of their job. Why can't a safety be both good in coverage and good in the box? If that's the case, then the safeties are interchangeable.

If a guy is playing free safety 100% of the time, then a free safety cheating towards the line will be like a trumpet telling the offense to expect a blitz and throw to a wide receiver who will be taking advantage of that fact.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

This is why we have moved on from kickers playing kick returner/fullback/even quarterback. This game is a specialized sport and saying a strong safety could interchange with a free safety is basically putting a small linebacker in a single high safety role. Imagine somebody like Jamari Lattimore.. A slim linebacker as a FS. Crazy huh? Put him in the box as a run supporter (classify as SS)
Not the best idea necessarily but a lot more chance he succeeds...obviously


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Wow, yes, you're right. Saying that a safety should be good in coverage and playing near the LoS is directly comparable to one guy playing quarterback/kicker/fullback.

Defensive players, especially safeties, have to be able to do many things. If you have a strong safetey that's a liability in coverage, offenses will DESTROY you. Put Lattimore at SS against the Patriots and see how often he'll end up in coverage against Shane Vereen split out wide....the Pats would take that match up all day.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The discussion is whether coaches are lying when they say they would like to have two safeties that are interchangeable. Their is no question that coaches would prefer that.

The only reason you would think otherwise would be that you are making the assumption that it means that neither is any good at one aspect of their job. Why can't a safety be both good in coverage and good in the box? If that's the case, then the safeties are interchangeable.

There are safeties who are better in coverage and others make an impact playing in the box. Having them play both positions doesn´t play to their strengths.

If a guy is playing free safety 100% of the time, then a free safety cheating towards the line will be like a trumpet telling the offense to expect a blitz and throw to a wide receiver who will be taking advantage of that fact.

You´re talking about a few plays during an entire season, that doesn´t mean safeties should be interchangeable. Earl Thomas, for example, rushed the passer twice last season.

 

[HyponGrey]

The discussion is whether coaches are lying when they say they would like to have two safeties that are interchangeable. There is no question that coaches would prefer that. The only reason you would think otherwise would be that you are making the assumption that it means that neither is any good at one aspect of their job. Why can't a safety be both good in coverage and good in the box?W If that's the case, then the safeties are interchangeable.

If a guy is playing free safety 100% of the time, then a free safety cheating towards the line will be like a trumpet telling the offense to expect a blitz and throw to a wide receiver who will be taking advantage of that fact.

Name 5 Safeties that can play Centerfield, and the LOS. Now name 5 Safeties in this draft you think can and why. There's a difference between wanting something, and actually being able to get it. It's called a pipe dream. Give me a cover man, and teach him how to play the LOS. MD Jennings started over Jerron McMillian and Sean Richardson for a reason.

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

Name 5 Safeties that can play Centerfield, and the LOS. Now name 5 Safeties in this draft you think can and why. There's a difference between wanting something, and actually being able to get it. It's called a pipe dream. Give me a cover man, and teach him how to play the LOS. MD Jennings started over Jerron McMillian and Sean Richardson for a reason.

Exactly even the best safeties or the biggest names stick to their one position. Polamalu, Byrd...


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[HyponGrey]

Exactly even the best safeties or the biggest names stick to their one position. Polamalu, Byrd...

Polamalu was a complete complete coverage liability early on, Labeau used any means necessary to hide him. Took him years to figure it out under Perry, and thankfully he had Clark to free him up to play his game. Teams all over the league use specialized Safeties, it's nothing to be ashamed of.