Ryan Winning Punting Job

Popcynical

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If Jon Ryan keeps punting like he has at the start of training camp, it's hard to see how he won't beat out B.J. Sander for the Green Bay Packers' punting job.

Of course, that's a big if, and until he performs in games, there remain questions about his hang time and delivery speed.

But through three days of practice, the former Canadian Football League standout has shown perhaps the strongest leg the Packers have had in training camp since Pro Bowl player Craig Hentrich in the mid-1990s.

"He can boom it," receiver Donald Driver said.

Leg strength alone won't win Ryan the punting job. The NFL puts a premium on hang time to allow cover men to get downfield and force either fair catches or hold returners to minimal gains. Sander's strength is hang time and placement, though he'll have to show considerably more consistency to hold onto his job for a second season.

Ryan moved ahead of Sander during offseason practices and by all appearances still holds the lead. They have hit punts in competitive, special-teams portions of practice three times — twice on the first day of camp on Friday, and again in the morning practice on Sunday. Ryan punted for considerably more distance both days, though accurate hang times were not available.

In the first period on Friday, with a strong breeze at their backs, Ryan averaged 64.3 yards on eight punts and Sander 48.3. In the second session that night, Ryan averaged 58.5 yards on six punts, and Sander 49.1 yards on five punts.

On Sunday morning, with practice in the Don Hutson Center because of heavy rain earlier in the day, Ryan averaged 54.4 yards on eight punts, and Sander 39.3 yards.

The yardage on the punts inside might have been skewed some because the team was working on punt returns, so the punters were told to avoid hitting the ceiling. By a subjective rating, Ryan had four low punts, two high punts, and two that were OK. Sander had two low punts, two high punts, and four that were OK.

Regardless, Ryan has shown a noticeably stronger leg than Sander and has long experience punting in cold and windy weather in Canada, where he played in high school and college, as well as two years in the CFL.

"I'm anxious to see him in a game," said Reggie McKenzie, the Packers' director of pro personnel. "Until then, we can get excited with the leg strength, but until you punt in games …"

The major issue is whether Ryan can adjust to the NFL in one offseason.

For instance, hang time is an issue because the CFL emphasizes it less than the NFL. The CFL field is 11½ yards wider than the NFL, so CFL punters more often try to punt the ball out of bounds so there's no return. They usually drive the ball on those attempts because they get increased distance and directional control.

To improve hang time, Ryan is working on dropping the ball a fraction of a second later than usual, striking it at a point higher off the ground.

"(Special teams) coach (Mike) Stock seems happy so far and he hasn't told me to change anything," Ryan said, "so I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing and keep working on my hang time."

It's also crucial that Ryan punts well with a slightly faster delivery. In the CFL, Ryan averaged about 1.5 seconds from the time he caught the snap to the kick. NFL teams look for punters to get rid of the ball in 1.3 seconds or less. Though that final 0.05 of a second is a short time, it's meaningful because a blocked punt can lose a game.

Ryan had four punts blocked last season in the CFL — an astonishingly high number — though he said none was because he got the ball off too slowly. He attributed the blocks to protection breakdowns and trying to punt a little lower than usual into strong winds.

"You can never have four blocks in a season. That's a lifetime or two lifetimes worth of blocked punts," Ryan said. "It was tough, but I have to take part of the responsibility."

Sander wasn't in the Packers' locker room for the 30 minutes it was open to reporters on Sunday, and was unavailable for comment. He went into the offseason knowing the Packers would bring in strong competition for the job after he finished 29th in the NFL in gross average (39.2 yards) and 31st in net (33.9 yards) last year.

Sander said he wore down during the second half of last season from all the extra practice and game-day punting he had in NFL Europe last spring. An injury to his non-kicking leg ended his NFL season with two weeks to play.

"Don't write off Sander yet," McKenzie said.

The Packers signed Ryan with a $35,000 signing bonus, which is about three times what they would have paid to a top-notch undrafted rookie. He'll get his closest look at game-type action in the Packers' Family Night scrimmage on Saturday and will make his game debut on Aug. 12 at San Diego.

"If I'm kicking good in practice, it's going to carry over to the game," Ryan said. "I'm not going to get nervous and choke. I've never played in the NFL before, but I've been in pro football for two years, and I know you're going to play in the games how you practice. So I'm going to keep on practicing hard and hopefully things will fall into place."
 

packedhouse01

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I'm not sure what Sander's problem is. He was an excellent punter in college. It almost appears as if he's a head case. He has all the physical tools to do the job, but he is so inconsistent. I guess that's the reason you don't take a kicker in the third round. We had the same thing with Conway. He too was supposed to be the next great kicker and Longwell beat him out. I will say this much, the special teams are so important and we've been so bad in this facet of the game. My hope is that TT can find some people this year that can make this very important part of the game a strength.
 

PackerLegend

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Popcynical said:
It'd be nice if we weren't last in special teams this year... *sigh*


We Weren't Last

He went into the offseason knowing the Packers would bring in strong competition for the job after he finished 29th in the NFL in gross average (39.2 yards) and 31st in net (33.9 yards) last year.

for punting we finished 29th and 31st. LOL
 

wpr

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I like the Canadian way of just kicking the sucker out of bounds and let them get no return at all.
Granted I don't want him to kick it only 15 yards down field before it bounces out of bounds. If Ryan can kick it 45 yards down field and out of bounds 90% of the time who cares how long his hangtime is.
 

4packgirl

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i don't care WHO "wins" the position - as long as he can get it inside the 10 yard line more often than not - i'll be happy!
 

Lare

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I guess I can't agree that Sander's problem has been his inconsistency, in fact, he's been about the most consistent punter I've ever heard of. Unfortunately, he's been consistently short. What the cause of that is, is anybody's guess.

What I want to know is why they are even wasting everyone's time proclaiming that he's still in the running for the punter position. My god, he's averaging around 15-yards less than Ryan!! Even if Ryan falls flat in game situations and they cut him, Sander certainly isn't the answer.

My grandpa used to say "Every lesson you learn in life is going to cost you something". In this case, it cost several people their jobs. But in the grand scheme of things it probably didn't cost us much last year. Even the best punter in the league probably wouldn't have affected our record much one way or another.

I think it's time to move on.
 

Greg C.

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I think Sander got messed up in the head in the preseason of his rookie year, and he still hasn't fully recovered. He had a lot of pressure as a third round pick, and then his first three public performances (the scrimmage and the first two exhibition games) were all at Lambeau Field, where he was under a microscope. That's tough for a rookie punter, because it's a job where your #1 priority is DON'T SCREW UP. I thought he had finally put it behind him last season, then he fizzled at the end.

Sander's yardage in training camp doesn't sound bad to me. With the kind of numbers Ryan is putting up, he would make almost anyone look bad. If Ryan can do that consistently, he'll be a great weapon.

Hey, here's an idea: Let's keep two punters--Ryan for the long kicks and Sander for kicks inside the 20. Just kidding.
 

rabidgopher04

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wpr said:
I like the Canadian way of just kicking the sucker out of bounds and let them get no return at all.
Granted I don't want him to kick it only 15 yards down field before it bounces out of bounds. If Ryan can kick it 45 yards down field and out of bounds 90% of the time who cares how long his hangtime is.

That's my philosophy. Why even let the other team have an opportunity to return the ball? Just kick it out as close to the corner as you can.
 

retiredgrampa

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Some won't agree with me, and that's fine. I believe that in the long run that if you boom one 65 yds., and even if it lands in the end zone instead of coming down at the 5 yd line, that's fine with me. If it comes down at the 5 and some PR latches onto it, who knows how far out he's going to run it....maybe 95 yds. I'm happy making them go 80 yds to score. In the Sander era, if he punted from our 20, the average return would take it to their 42. Not good. I'd rather they started from their 32, which is more likely with Ryan.
 

Bruce

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I am hoping Ryan grabs the job and holds it down with solid punting for years. However, it is early and kicking in Canadian football and the NFL are two entirely different beasts. Ryan had a poor day on Tuesday (from Christl's blog:

Punting from the opponents’ 45-yard line, Jon Ryan struggled with his directional kicking. Five of his 21 punts were shanks. He also had seven touchbacks. Only five were downed or landed inside the 10. B.J. Sander kicked more consistently...
 

wpr

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The battle is joined.
And the competition is heating up.
Wouldn't it be great if THIS was the biggest concern that the Packer Brass had to face this TC?
 

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Ryan had four punts blocked last season in the CFL — an astonishingly high number — though he said none was because he got the ball off too slowly. He attributed the blocks to protection breakdowns and trying to punt a little lower than usual into strong winds.

The ball doesn't go far if you can't get it out of the backfield.
 

Packula

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I saw Ryan kicking away in TC, and the crowd was awed by his kicks.

Sander got a raw deal. Remember Brett Conway? Same deal. Drafted too early, had the microscope on him, he cracked under the pressure. It's too bad, because I bet he could have had a pretty solid career under different circumstances.
 
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Christl said:
Punting from the opponents’ 45-yard line, Jon Ryan struggled with his directional kicking. Five of his 21 punts were shanks. He also had seven touchbacks. Only five were downed or landed inside the 10. B.J. Sander kicked more consistently, but only three of his 20 punts were downed or landed inside the 10.

:-?
 

Lare

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Bruce said:
I am hoping Ryan grabs the job and holds it down with solid punting for years. However, it is early and kicking in Canadian football and the NFL are two entirely different beasts. Ryan had a poor day on Tuesday (from Christl's blog:

Punting from the opponents’ 45-yard line, Jon Ryan struggled with his directional kicking. Five of his 21 punts were shanks. He also had seven touchbacks. Only five were downed or landed inside the 10. B.J. Sander kicked more consistently...

It's probably only fair to add the last line of Christl's paragraph on Ryan & Sander.

Punting from the opponents’ 45-yard line, Jon Ryan struggled with his directional kicking. Five of his 21 punts were shanks. He also had seven touchbacks. Only five were downed or landed inside the 10. B.J. Sander kicked more consistently, but only three of his 20 punts were downed or landed inside the 10.


More consistent maybe, but still less successful overall. Realistically, a shank from the opponents 45 is about the same as a touchback. A shank from your own territory is something different entirely.
 

Greg C.

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More consistent maybe, but still less successful overall. Realistically, a shank from the opponents 45 is about the same as a touchback. A shank from your own territory is something different entirely.[/quote]

Good point, Lare.

Sander is supposed to excel at kicking inside the 20 yard line, so 3 out of 20 is a pretty discouraging number.
 

Bruce

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As I said, I want Ryan to grab the job.

But 5 shanks from the opponents 45 is significant, especially since Sanders had none.

My whole point is that it is early and the job will not be won or lost on one days kicking.
Rather a number of factors over the long haul will determine whether either man is ready for the job including: how quickly can they get off the ball from catch to foot (incredibly important in the NFL and even more so since Ryan was blocked an astonishing 5 times last season), ability to pin the ball in side the 20, ability to deliver under pressure (for example when back up against your own goal line) hang-time...

I think at this point Ryan is the favorite, but it is still a battle that will go on throughout training camp and into preseason -- where they will be kicking under fire.
 

PackerLegend

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Cliff Chirstl, of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, reports Green Bay Packers P B.J. Sander averaged 50 yards per punt during practice Friday, Aug. 4. He attempted six punts from his own three-yard line with a slight breeze at his back.

Cliff Chirstl, of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, reports Green Bay Packers P Jon Ryan averaged 58.8 yards per punt during practice Friday, Aug. 4. He attempted six punts from his own three-yard line with a slight breeze at his back.
 

CalifPacker

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PackerLegend said:
Cliff Chirstl, of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, reports Green Bay Packers P B.J. Sander averaged 50 yards per punt during practice Friday, Aug. 4. He attempted six punts from his own three-yard line with a slight breeze at his back.

Cliff Chirstl, of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, reports Green Bay Packers P Jon Ryan averaged 58.8 yards per punt during practice Friday, Aug. 4. He attempted six punts from his own three-yard line with a slight breeze at his back.

A difference of nearly nine yards. Gotta think the return man is back pedeling, not steping up to catch the ball. Good coverage and tackling could pin down an opponent.
 

Raider Pride

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Buckeyepackfan said:
Ryan had four punts blocked last season in the CFL — an astonishingly high number — though he said none was because he got the ball off too slowly. He attributed the blocks to protection breakdowns and trying to punt a little lower than usual into strong winds.

The ball doesn't go far if you can't get it out of the backfield.


Yep! BUT..... BUT..... But some people adjust.

Good on Ryan tonight.

Thank you Canada.....

R.P.
 

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