Ryan Shazier

[HardRightEdge]

Isn't our "bandit" position essentially an open field ILB who flows to the ball? That IS what we do with Brad Jones right?

I don't see Christian Jones stacking and shedding: his point skills are as bad as Shazier's, and he gets caught on blocks. I hear most of Jones' plays came from the DE spot, so there's that.

Or we put B.Jones at SILB, and Shazier at WILB to sit Hawk down on 3rd down.

Any thoughts on Zumwalt? I kinda like.

I kinda wince when I hear the job is "flow to ball" in the same way I wince when when I hear our 5 tech DE didn't need to tackle anybody because he was "taking up blockers". I see those are the minimum job requirements...the guys have to get off blocks and strike people from time to time.

I like C. Jones a bit better than Shazier in the box but I agree neither are "stack and shed" (a good way to express it, by the way). I put Jones out there as a cheaper alternative because I'd hate to see us yet again spend a high round pick on a guy who doesn't quite fit, which is the way I see Shazier. C. Jones looks like he'd be upgrade in coverage; I don't love him, but he's a good football player and I think he'd be worthy competition and depth.

If C. Jones made most of his plays from DE that might be because he took a lot of snaps there because the regular starter was injured, at least that's what the announcers were saying during the Clemson game.

I just checked out some tape on Zumwalt. I think I agree with you...he's more what I've had in mind to bring what we've been lacking since Bishop went down. He's a hitter, he's got a motor, and he finishes...that would be be a refreshing change in our back 7, Matthews excepted. Z. might need to add some bulk to keep from hurting himself playing like that in the NFL. He looks faster than his Combine 4.76...more like a 4.65 judging from downfield pursuit in some sophomore tape on youtube.

C. Jones would be the more polished, versatile player but Z. looks like he'd bring more of the special sauce we need.

 

[HyponGrey]

C. Jones would be the more polished, versatile player but Z. looks like he'd bring more of the special sauce we need.

I'm not convinced Z can't defend a seam if he needs to, unlike a lot of the thumpers in this draft, and doesn't look bad in short coverage. He does need to add some bulk though, he really is a bit on the spindly side. I like him a lot better than guys like Skov or even Borland.

 

[PackfanFB]

Just joined this forum. As for Shazier, I love this kid and truthfully there are only a handful of realistic options I would take over him at 21. Even better would be if we could find a WR hungry team like Car to trade up with us and get Shazier at 28 because I think he would be there unless NO grabs him a pick earlier.

That aside, I really do not understand the "too small" argument when it comes to Shazier. Sure looking at his film he looks undersized but he played at OSU around 225 - 230. Since then he's bulked up to 237 at the combine. That is darn close to the playing weight of maybe the best 3-4 ILB in football, Patrick Willis (240). Bowman as well (242). Meanwhile, people keep talking about Mosley and Christian Jones, both of whom are actually smaller (lighter) than Shazier. Now I wouldn't be upset if we chose Mosley over Shazier but I believe Shazier has the bigger upside and much less of an injury history than Mosley.

I know Shazier's "limitation" if you will, is his ability to shed blocks right now, but his speed, aggression and closing ability are things you cannot teach and something we currently do not have with any of the ILBs on our team. In fact, if he was a more complete run-stuffer, he'd be going top 10. And, let's face it, Hawk is a 2-down ILB, he is a liability in coverage, we all know that. Brad Jones (my personal view) is TERRIBLE and should not be on this team.

The bottom line is, and McCarthy preached it all off season, we need to add SPEED to our defense. Shazier is a playmaker, a 3-down player and a guy that Capers can use all over the field. I'd love to grab him the 1st and guy like Max Bullough in the 4th (a true Mike LB run thumper) and there's your future at ILB. Bounce Brad Jones this year and Hawk when his deal runs out.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That aside, I really do not understand the "too small" argument when it comes to Shazier. Sure looking at his film he looks undersized but he played at OSU around 225 - 230. Since then he's bulked up to 237 at the combine. That is darn close to the playing weight of maybe the best 3-4 ILB in football, Patrick Willis (240). Bowman as well (242). Meanwhile, people keep talking about Mosley and Christian Jones, both of whom are actually smaller (lighter) than Shazier. Now I wouldn't be upset if we chose Mosley over Shazier but I believe Shazier has the bigger upside and much less of an injury history than Mosley.

I know Shazier's "limitation" if you will, is his ability to shed blocks right now.

Well, that´s a real concern though for an ILB in a 3-4 defense without a block-occupying NT like the Packers.

 

[PackfanFB]

Well, that´s a real concern though for an ILB in a 3-4 defense without a block-occupying NT like the Packers.

Not denying that, but at 21 or beyond, every pick has a "concern". If we take Pryor, the concern is can he play centerfield or is he more of a SS, if it's Mosley, can he stay healthy or play in the middle (he's only 232 pounds), if its Hageman, does he have a consistent motor, the list goes on.

It's just my opinion, but I would take an ILB, in any scheme, with speed and more play-making ability any day over a slower, more stout LB. Shazier can learn to shed blocks and he has the speed and instincts to help with that. Moreover, it's not like Shazier is weak, he's shredded and did 25 reps at the combine, more than most LBs whether inside or outside. Furthermore, he's going to be on the field making plays on the most important down in football, 3rd down.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not denying that, but at 21 or beyond, every pick has a "concern". If we take Pryor, the concern is can he play centerfield or is he more of a SS, if it's Mosley, can he stay healthy or play in the middle (he's only 232 pounds), if its Hageman, does he have a consistent motor, the list goes on.

Actually there´s concern about every single prospect in the draft, but there´s absolutely no doubt in my mind that I´d rather have Mosley playing ILB than Shazier, especially as Shazier lacks one of the most talents I look for in a 3-4 ILB and I´m not sure he can learn to shed blocks at the NFL level as he´s not possessing the ideal body type for doing it.

 

[PackfanFB]

Actually there´s concern about every single prospect in the draft, but there´s absolutely no doubt in my mind that I´d rather have Mosley playing ILB than Shazier, especially as Shazier lacks one of the most talents I look for in a 3-4 ILB and I´m not sure he can learn to shed blocks at the NFL level as he´s not possessing the ideal body type for doing it.

Well I certainly would not be upset if we drafted Mosley. Truthfully, I do not think Mosley will be there but I hope he is, a good problem to have for the Packers if he's part of their options. Anybody is better than Brad Jones. We should cut him within 5 minutes of drafting either Mosley or Shazier and save whatever we can of that ridiculous 4 million per year deal we gave him 2 years ago. Keep Lattimore and Barrington to back up the rookie and Hawk.

Still want Bullough around round 4 too. I think he could be a great 2-down ILB, great instincts and has that "bull" quality in stopping the run.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Still want Bullough around round 4 too. I think he could be a great 2-down ILB, great instincts and has that "bull" quality in stopping the run.

It seems to me like you overvalue guys you really like and want the Packers to reach for them. I wouldn´t want the Packers to draft Bullogh before the fifth round.

 

[PackfanFB]

It seems to me like you overvalue guys you really like and want the Packers to reach for them. I wouldn´t want the Packers to draft Bullogh before the fifth round.

I think he'll be gone by then. If not to us, to someone else. That's based on watching him play for three years.

 

[HyponGrey]

I think he'll be gone by then. If not to us, to someone else. That's based on watching him play for three years.

It's a matter of Bullough's off field red vs his football IQ (his dad is a coach IIRC). Did well in Senior bowl practices and showed better than expected (not to be confused with good) coverage skills. Not sure Hawk is as big of a coverage liability as one might think, his main problem is he's a linear athlete.

 

[HyponGrey]

Urban confirming character concerns, you can pretty much take him off our board.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Not denying that, but at 21 or beyond, every pick has a "concern". If we take Pryor, the concern is can he play centerfield or is he more of a SS, if it's Mosley, can he stay healthy or play in the middle (he's only 232 pounds), if its Hageman, does he have a consistent motor, the list goes on.

It's just my opinion, but I would take an ILB, in any scheme, with speed and more play-making ability any day over a slower, more stout LB. Shazier can learn to shed blocks and he has the speed and instincts to help with that. Moreover, it's not like Shazier is weak, he's shredded and did 25 reps at the combine, more than most LBs whether inside or outside. Furthermore, he's going to be on the field making plays on the most important down in football, 3rd down.

Analyst from Optimum Scouting was on the radio and said that Shazier weighed over 220 lbs ONCE while at OSU and that NFL scouts expect him to weight below 220 lbs by the end of the NFL season (similar to how Datone Jones weighed less at the end of the year than he did at the combine). One weigh-in doesn't convince me that Shazier is REALLY the same size as Mosley when the guy looks much smaller on film.