Runningback Situation

sschind

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The pendulum has started swinging back the other way in the last couple of years. You see it in the draft; you see it recent contracts for RBs who have gone past the proverbial "4th year wall".

It may be a passing league but I do think teams are realizing that passing is A LOT easier to do well and do consistently if you have a RB that other teams respect. Yeah, you might be able to get by with an average back if your QB is a stud and you have great WRs but if you pair them up with a stud RB you might be unstoppable. You are always going to have guys like Elliot, and Gurley from last year, who teams pin their hopes on and IMO rightly so. I don't care if you have the best QB and the best WR corps in the NFL, if you have a chance to get the next Sweetness, or Sanders, or Faulk or whomever you think deserves to be up there you would be a fool not to go for it. I'm not saying Elliot or Gurley will be the next great one but I am speaking in generalities. If there is a back out there that you think has that potential you get him.

Besides, I'm a running back kind of guy. I love a team that runs the ball down the other teams throat. Unless you are talking about a spectacular catch I can't think of any passing play that goes for more than 5 yards that is more exciting than an equal running play. A 75 yard pass is fun to see but a 75 yard run is incredible.
 
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Arthur Squires

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How does a new fullback affect the running game? Will the loss of Kuhn be painfully noticeable or will Ripkowski aka The Tombstone, be the younger better selection? I know he's a bit bigger than Kuhn and if you watch his college tape at Oklahoma you'll see a Sledgehammer fullback of the old days. I cant help to think though that it will be another year or two before Rip's the intellectual equivalent as Kuhn when it comes to knowledge of the offense and defensive tendencies.
 
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HardRightEdge

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How does a new fullback affect the running game? Will the loss of Kuhn be painfully noticeable or will Ripkowski aka The Tombstone, be the younger better selection? I know he's a bit bigger than Kuhn and if you watch his college tape at Oklahoma you'll see a Sledgehammer fullback of the old days. I cant help to think though that it will be another year or two before Rip's the intellectual equivalent as Kuhn when it comes to knowledge of the offense and defensive tendencies.
While we should always be open to surprises, a seamless transition might be expecting too much as you suggest.
 
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How does a new fullback affect the running game? Will the loss of Kuhn be painfully noticeable or will Ripkowski aka The Tombstone, be the younger better selection? I know he's a bit bigger than Kuhn and if you watch his college tape at Oklahoma you'll see a Sledgehammer fullback of the old days. I cant help to think though that it will be another year or two before Rip's the intellectual equivalent as Kuhn when it comes to knowledge of the offense and defensive tendencies.

Ripkowski will for sure not have the same knowledge about the offense as Kuhn had over the last few years. I liked his physicality on special teams last season though and hope he's capable of carrying that over on offense as well.
 

El Guapo

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At some point you need to let veterans go and keep youth flowing through. It's the only way to effectively deal with salary caps. Fan favorites and the old trusty shoe eventually need to be replaced, often a year or two before they get stale.
 
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At some point you need to let veterans go and keep youth flowing through. It's the only way to effectively deal with salary caps. Fan favorites and the old trusty shoe eventually need to be replaced, often a year or two before they get stale.

Kuhn would have been a candidate for the veteran minimum benefit, so the team's salary cap had nothing to do with not re-signing him. I guess the coaching staff feels confident in Ripkowski being able to adequately replace the veteran.
 

brandon2348

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Dunno. These clips, and another mashup with that annoying hip hop baller sh*t background music, don't show us much about his hips. In the NFL, if he ain't got fluid hips you cannot acquit, at least at CB. From the little I've seen, free safety is another possibility given that the safety position is awfully thin.

I don't think a DB could make this roster on ST alone. Banjo's utility is strictly special teams. Goodson, assuming he returns, was already heading in that direction. More than one ST specialist in a position group makes for depth vulnerability.

We'll get a better idea of who has roster potential in preseason.

I wish I could be so enthralled with the roster. There are a number of core players another year older and the team "deeper in debt", to paraphrase Tennessee Ernie Ford, beside notable question marks regarding several years worth of upper round draft picks. Come to think of it, somebody should do a playa hip hop take on "16 Tons"...something like "16 b*tches and wudayagit? Another day older and deeper in debt." But I digress. ;)

Yeah, I am about "hyped video'd out" myself. Hawkins has the "hips". He has it all but is a little undersized. The only reason he was an UDFA is because he is a tad undersized. I give him a pass on that because he is as tough as nails and scrappy. He will come up and hit ya. He showed several times at East Carolina he can line up against bigger receivers and muscle with them. Adding the "4 game suspension to Goodson" to equation has me all over Hawkins.

I could see him as a guy that could play in the slot or bumped outside in a pinch. Plays bigger then his size.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Yeah, I am about "hyped video'd out" myself. Hawkins has the "hips". He has it all but is a little undersized. The only reason he was an UDFA is because he is a tad undersized. I give him a pass on that because he is as tough as nails and scrappy. He will come up and hit ya. He showed several times at East Carolina he can line up against bigger receivers and muscle with them. Adding the "4 game suspension to Goodson" to equation has me all over Hawkins.

I could see him as a guy that could play in the slot or bumped outside in a pinch. Plays bigger then his size.
Well, if he checks all those boxes his next hurdle will be the Capers mind meld.
 
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Arthur Squires

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Ripkowski will for sure not have the same knowledge about the offense as Kuhn had over the last few years. I liked his physicality on special teams last season though and hope he's capable of carrying that over on offense as well.
It seemed like he was a factor on Special Teams now that i think of it. I truly can't wait to see how he looks Sunday vs Colts in HOF game. He should get most the snaps. No clue how much we use FB this season. But im still excited!!!
 

sschind

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Kuhn would have been a candidate for the veteran minimum benefit, so the team's salary cap had nothing to do with not re-signing him. I guess the coaching staff feels confident in Ripkowski being able to adequately replace the veteran.

It has a lot to do with strength of roster as well, both now and in the future. Which would make a bigger contribution to the team having that 2nd full back or that 7th WR (just using WR as an example since so many people feel we are absolutely stacked and have 7 studs on our team.) They obviously feel Ripkowski can do the job so it made Kuhn expendable and it freed up a roster spot for another player who may contribute more. The year they kept 5 TEs someone else had to go. They obviously felt that 5th TE, whoever it was, was more valuable to the team than the last guy they cut. In this case, for whatever reason, they felt Kuhn would not be one of the 53 most valuable players to have on the team.
 
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Arthur Squires

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It wouldnt surprise me if Kuhn returns for a coaching position. He knows our offense better than every player besides Rodgers probably. Gotta admit Im going to miss the Kuuuhhhn blaring through the stadium like crazzy!
 
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HardRightEdge

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It may be a passing league but I do think teams are realizing that passing is A LOT easier to do well and do consistently if you have a RB that other teams respect.
Few teams, in word and deed, commit to pounding the ball. As for the others, I don't think balance in the offense is a newfound discovery. With the trend toward smaller, faster ILBs who can cover the faster TEs, an increased priority on the RB position may simply be a reaction to vulnerabilities defending the run.
 
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Arthur Squires

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Career numbers? Then that offer probably will not work. But you'd have to ask his agent.
Yeah i have a feeling teams will be throwing 7mil a year and up offers. If i remember correctly Jonathan Stewart signed a new deal worth close to 8mil yearly and Lacy is a better back than Stewart, when he's not 250+pounds anyway. I have this fear of Lacy signing with the Lions next season because they throw fat numbers his way. It's more of a nightmare really.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Yeah i have a feeling teams will be throwing 7mil a year and up offers. If i remember correctly Jonathan Stewart signed a new deal worth close to 8mil yearly and Lacy is a better back than Stewart, when he's not 250+pounds anyway. I have this fear of Lacy signing with the Lions next season because they throw fat numbers his way. It's more of a nightmare really.
Here's the rundown on current RB contracts:

http://overthecap.com/position/running-back/

A career year from Lacy puts him above several guys at the $6+ mil level who just got new deals.

Stewart's would be the contract an agent would benchmark against. The guy has 8 seasons under his belt, his rushing is hardly elite and the career stats indicate he's not much of a receiver. As you suggest, this contract is hard to understand. Maybe Newton was crying about keeping the band together. Why they signed him is neither here nor there. The fact it establishes a benchmark is what matters.

You can go either way with Doug Martin. Terrific rookie year and a 4th. year All Pro year, but with 2 injury plagued seasons in between. I think I'd be reluctant to give this kind of money to a guy who hasn't put 2 healthy years back to back, but again that's neither here nor there. It's a benchmark against a durability risk.

Ivory had his best season last year, his 6th. in the league, which did not match up to Lacy's 2014 season. There is the mileage and an injury history there, but they paid him anyway.

Murray's 450 touches in 2014 were a 5 alarm warning. He was also running behind the best run blocking line in many a moon, which helped make for the gaudy stats. Philly paid the price. While I would expect some bounce back after a year of a much lighter load, the Titans are taking a big risk. Dallas might have permanently burned him out. But the Titans paid him anyway in taking on the risk, and that's all that matters in establishing the possible burnout benchmark.

Lamar Miller...his best year in 2014 approximates Lacy's 2014, but would not match up to a Lacy career year. Miller saw some fall off in 2015. The Texans paid him, and that's what matters.

And keep in mind...the salary cap will go up again. And renewed interest in bolstering run games could continue on pace creating more price competition.

Lacy's kind of a d*mned if he does and d*mned if he doesn't situation. If he returns to form, I agree with the Captain that you would not want to trust him at these $ amounts, especially with all of the other FAs in the 2017 group. Young guys with conditioning issues have a bad habit of repeat offenses. Of course if he plays like last year after getting in better shape perhaps making business decisions, you would not want to pay him in that case either.

This is why they signed Starks for 2 years. The first year is insurance against Lacy. The second is insurance against the unproven rookie they may have to draft next year in an upper round.
 
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GreenBaySlacker

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Lacy will still be in a time share with Starks. Still have to give Cobb and Montgomery a few carries. Have to remember we have 2 starter caliber TEs now too. Thats before we have to choose from 7 WRs... Lacy might not get the chance to have a career year...

But I bet we still give him 8 a year... He is a beast. And its payday...
 
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Arthur Squires

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They should draft Jalen Hurd next year. He will be s stud in the NFL. Everybody compates leonard Fournette to Adrian Peterson. But Jalen Hurd is a better comparison to Peterson in my opinion.
 
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It seemed like he was a factor on Special Teams now that i think of it. I truly can't wait to see how he looks Sunday vs Colts in HOF game. He should get most the snaps. No clue how much we use FB this season. But im still excited!!!

The Packers used Kuhn on 26.6% of the offensive snaps last season. I expect that number of fullback snaps to drop in 2016.

So, if Lacy does return to form and put up career numbers does 3years and 18 million keep him a Packer?

Yeah i have a feeling teams will be throwing 7mil a year and up offers. If i remember correctly Jonathan Stewart signed a new deal worth close to 8mil yearly and Lacy is a better back than Stewart, when he's not 250+pounds anyway. I have this fear of Lacy signing with the Lions next season because they throw fat numbers his way. It's more of a nightmare really.

I have a nightmare about Lacy showing up to training camp looking like Gilbert Brown once the Packers sign him to a lucrative long-term contract.

Lacy will still be in a time share with Starks. Still have to give Cobb and Montgomery a few carries. Have to remember we have 2 starter caliber TEs now too. Thats before we have to choose from 7 WRs... Lacy might not get the chance to have a career year...

But I bet we still give him 8 a year... He is a beast. And its payday...

With the Packers offense centered around the passing game Lacy doesn't have to finish with huge totals but has to put up a decent average per carry and achieve that defenses have to respect the team's running game.

There's no way I would feel comfortable paying Lacy $8 million a season. I'd rather spend an early pick on a rookie.
 
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Arthur Squires

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Personally, if anyone doubts Rips lead blocking skills you obviously didnt watch him at Oklahoma. Plus he shows some soft hands often as well. If you want to check out how much power he has check out his catch at the 5yd line vs Oklahoma St and you'll see him plow through and carry 5 defenders into the endzone! He is no slouch i beleive he will be a reason our Rungame bounces back. He just needs to study that playbook day and night. Lets Go Pack!!!!
 
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Personally, if anyone doubts Rips lead blocking skills you obviously didnt watch him at Oklahoma. Plus he shows some soft hands often as well. If you want to check out how much power he has check out his catch at the 5yd line vs Oklahoma St and you'll see him plow through and carry 5 defenders into the endzone! He is no slouch i beleive he will be a reason our Rungame bounces back. He just needs to study that playbook day and night. Lets Go Pack!!!!

I don't think there are any posters around here having concerns about Ripkowski's strength and power. His knowledge of the offense is a different story though.
 

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just saw a campbell's chunky soup commercial on youtube. found it funny that the guy is in a food commercial, let alone one with a product named "chunky." gotta love lacy!
 
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Arthur Squires

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I don't think there are any posters around here having concerns about Ripkowski's strength and power. His knowledge of the offense is a different story though.
Thats to be expected of a player entering his 2nd year. They must be happy with how he's coming along though. They haven't brought in Kuhn so thats a positive sign they think Rip knows enough of the offense. He should be a great extra blocker for Rodgers when he isn't run blocking. Plus he has good hands and can catch tough balls. Pure excitement to see Rip this Sunday.
 

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