Rodgers QB Rating Dip

[rmontro]

QB record is a terrible way to evaluate the GOAT.

Maybe so, but I'd still list it as a factor in there somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe so, but I'd still list it as a factor in there somewhere.

In my opinion there are too many other factors a quarterback can't control factoring into it for it to make sense.

 

[PackAttack12]

Maybe so, but I'd still list it as a factor in there somewhere.

In my opinion there are too many other factors a quarterback can't control factoring into it for it to make sense.

A perfect example of why you can't look at just wins/losses:

Brady's 2017 Super Bowl:

505 passing yards
3 touchdowns
0 interceptions
115 passer rating
88 QBR

Result: LOSS


Brady's 2018 Super Bowl:

262 passing yards
0 touchdowns
1 interception
71 passer rating
24 QBR

Result: WIN

Simply looking at victories means nothing because Brady played phenomenal in the 2017 Super Bowl and took the L because his defense gave up 41 points, yet he played terrible in the 2018 Super Bowl, but won. Because his defense gave up 3.

 

[gbgary]

Win/Loss Record and Percentages

196 - 106 = 65% - Brett Favre
113 - 65 = 63% - Aaron Rodgers

although it's a talking point, wins/losses isn't a qb stat at all.

 

[rmontro]

although it's a talking point, wins/losses isn't a qb stat at all.

If you say wins and losses isn't a QB stat, you have to say championships isn't a QB stat either. Both statements might be fair, but the fact is most people point to championships first when anointing a QB GOAT.

Besides which, the NFL does keep records for QB wins, so I'd say it does qualify as a QB stat. Brady holds the record, followed by Payton Manning, then Favre. Favre held the record at one time, and I didn't think that was an insignificant stat.

That said, and as I've said before, I don't believe in a GOAT.

 

[gbgary]

If you say wins and losses isn't a QB stat, you have to say championships isn't a QB stat either. Both statements might be fair, but the fact is most people point to championships first when anointing a QB GOAT.

Besides which, the NFL does keep records for QB wins, so I'd say it does qualify as a QB stat. Brady holds the record, followed by Payton Manning, then Favre. Favre held the record at one time, and I didn't think that was an insignificant stat.

That said, and as I've said before, I don't believe in a GOAT.

neither one are qb stats. they're team stats. as for goat...that's subjective...something in the eye of the beholder.

i don't see wins anywhere here...
this year...https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing.htm
all-time...https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm

 

[HardRightEdge]

The list of GOAT criteria is whatever anybody wants it to be, consequently there is no criteria and there cannot be a GOAT, only GOAT in the plural. It's a club. How many you want to admit is up to you.

Discounting the win-loss record has validity to a degree, but only to a degree.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If you say wins and losses isn't a QB stat, you have to say championships isn't a QB stat either. Both statements might be fair, but the fact is most people point to championships first when anointing a QB GOAT.

Besides which, the NFL does keep records for QB wins, so I'd say it does qualify as a QB stat. Brady holds the record, followed by Payton Manning, then Favre. Favre held the record at one time, and I didn't think that was an insignificant stat.

While the NFL assigns wins and losses to quarterbacks it's not a good measure to evaluate their performances as too many other factors affect the outcome of a game.

 

[rmontro]

While the NFL assigns wins and losses to quarterbacks it's not a good measure to evaluate their performances as too many other factors affect the outcome of a game.

It's not the best factor, and I get your point, but I'm just saying it's a factor. Take a look at the top 20 QBs in wins, there's not a bad quarterback to be found. Even Marino is on there, who is well known for not having the best teams around him. Teams with good quarterbacks tend to win more. It's the reason the Packers have dominated the NFC North the last 25 years. If QBs don't win, they tend to be replaced, and they certainly won't be considered one of the GOATs. So if they're good, they tend to have longevity, and they pile up wins.

 

[pacmaniac]

It'd be nice for Rodgers to be the career leader in rating. He can't catch Brady in rings, so hopefully he can have this.

Russell Wilson is a threat, but remember, Wilson will get old too, so his rating will start declining in his later years too.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's not the best factor, and I get your point, but I'm just saying it's a factor. Take a look at the top 20 QBs in wins, there's not a bad quarterback to be found. Even Marino is on there, who is well known for not having the best teams around him. Teams with good quarterbacks tend to win more. It's the reason the Packers have dominated the NFC North the last 25 years. If QBs don't win, they tend to be replaced, and they certainly won't be considered one of the GOATs. So if they're good, they tend to have longevity, and they pile up wins.

I agree that great quarterbacks tend to have long careers and therefore end up on top of the wins list. When talking about the GOAT the teams around them should definitely be factored into consideration though.

 

[tynimiller]

I agree that great quarterbacks tend to have long careers and therefore end up on top of the wins list. When talking about the GOAT the teams around them should definitely be factored into consideration though.

100% agree! This is the very reason Barry Sanders will forever be cemented as the GOAT at RB for me and honestly I won't even listen to a dispute for it...we can discuss 2nd, 3rd and on but dude was the GOAT.

 

[red4tribe]

It'd be nice for Rodgers to be the career leader in rating. He can't catch Brady in rings, so hopefully he can have this.

Russell Wilson is a threat, but remember, Wilson will get old too, so his rating will start declining in his later years too.

For him to have a real shot at holding the rating record, he’d probably have to put together a few more 110+ years. Mahomes is currently about 650 passes away from qualifying, and his rating is 112, so nine points more than Rodgers. Same for Watson who has a 103 rating too. Mahomes is really a bigger threat to the record than Wilson.

So I think it’s unlikely Rodgers holds the record when he retires. As the league becomes more passing-friendly, it favors newcomers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So I think it’s unlikely Rodgers holds the record when he retires. As the league becomes more passing-friendly, it favors newcomers.

Actually the rules being changed even more in favor of the offense has resulted in the passer rating of younger quarterbacks being further improved. Therefore Rodgers being surpassed by some others shouldn't be that important.

 

[red4tribe]

Actually the rules being changed even more in favor of the offense has resulted in the passer rating of younger quarterbacks being further improved. Therefore Rodgers being surpassed by some others shouldn't be that important.

Yes, I agree. That’s what I said.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, I agree. That’s what I said.

I thought you were talking about the sheer number of passes increasing. My bad.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Here's the crux of the matter. There is no GOAT. It's all subjective and open to interpretation. So in the end the GOAT is whomever you deem it to be. Any arguments over it are wastes of time.

 

[PikeBadger]

100% agree! This is the very reason Barry Sanders will forever be cemented as the GOAT at RB for me and honestly I won't even listen to a dispute for it...we can discuss 2nd, 3rd and on but dude was the GOAT.

Never agree with that. Sanders couldn’t pick up 3rd and 2. There are a bunch of RB’s I’d take on my team over him starting with Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, Walter Payton, Earl Campbell, and Emmitt Smith.
I think Sanders falls into the Gale Sayers, Tony Dorsett, Eric ****erson and Adrian Peterson category. Makes for great highlight reels but it’s all about moving the chains and outscoring your opponent.

 

[Calvin]

Never agree with that. Sanders couldn’t pick up 3rd and 2. There are a bunch of RB’s I’d take on my team over him starting with Jim Brown, Jim Taylor, Walter Payton, Earl Campbell, and Emmitt Smith.
I think Sanders falls into the Gale Sayers, Tony Dorsett, Eric ****erson and Adrian Peterson category. Makes for great highlight reels but it’s all about moving the chains and outscoring your opponent.

You do realize you're actually making the point even more about Sanders. I give you just 1 hint, look at Smith's line, that is exactly the point of this thread. You lost me tho when you said sanders make for great highlight reels, I guess 30 years from now they will be making that exact same statement about Rodgers highlight reels throwing the ball, I'm shaking my head

 

[Pugger]

Here's the crux of the matter. There is not GOAT. It's all subjective and open to interpretation. So in the end the GOAT is whomever you deem it to be. Any arguments over it are wastes of time.

The problem with trying to call anyone the GOAT is there will always be another one who will be even better down the pike. For a while it was Montana and right now a lot of folks say Brady is. I will say as far as pure QB talent I've never seen another like AR. He just doesn't have the hardware that guy in NE has.

 

[PikeBadger]

You do realize you're actually making the point even more about Sanders. I give you just 1 hint, look at Smith's line, that is exactly the point of this thread. You lost me tho when you said sanders make for great highlight reels, I guess 30 years from now they will be making that exact same statement about Rodgers highlight reels throwing the ball, I'm shaking my head

Sanders has earned his place in the HOF and was indeed an incredible talent. I just don’t think he’s worthy of GOAT accolades.

 

[BrokenArrow]

The problem with trying to call anyone the GOAT is there will always be another one who will be even better down the pike. For a while it was Montana and right now a lot of folks say Brady is. I will say as far as pure QB talent I've never seen another like AR. He just doesn't have the hardware that guy in NE has.

You could plug any one of a dozen or so QBs into his situation and there likely would have been very little difference in the outcome. If Rodgers, Brees, or even a guy like Rivers had been in his place, they probably would have more trophies than they have now.

 

[rmontro]

Sanders has earned his place in the HOF and was indeed an incredible talent. I just don’t think he’s worthy of GOAT accolades.

Depends on what you're looking for. Personally, I'd prefer to have a bulldozer type RB who could pick up those short yards when you need them, but YMMV.

 

[Mondio]

If you told me I had to play offense with Sanders as my RB, i'd be pretty happy. I'd be Happy with Smith, Bo, Walter, Gayle, Faulk, Brown, Taylor, TD (both of them), Curtis Martin, ****erson too.