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Rodgers Opened the Door; Kaeprnick Walked In

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by texaspackerbacker, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    I'd like to hear some opinions about this. Unlike most things, I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other. Is the game fundamentally changing with the advent of extreme running QBs? Aaron Rodgers has done a super job throwing the ball, but up until last season, he was arguably the best, maybe only big time QB that could do the job running also. Yeah, there was Vick, but I'm discounting him as either an aberration or not really a big time QB. Then Griffin and Wilson came along, and rightly or wrongly, I kinda dismissed them as injuries waiting to happen/short career guys and basically defensible by scheme and an average amount of D talent. Similarly, when Kaepernick was a part-timer, I figured great runner but nothing as a passer. I think this whole trend started with teams noticing what the dimension of Rodgers running did for the Packers. Kaepernick came on and did what he did. So my question is: was it strictly a product of horrible Packer defense? Was it a one-shot aberration - he really ain't that good? Is Kaepernick in fact an injury waiting to happen/short career guy even though he seems a lot sturdier than Griffin or Wilson? Or is this the trend of things to come - everybody needs to get a guy like this or be left behind? And throw in one more question that is real heresy: who is better - Rodgers or Kaepernick - in terms of ability to win games?
     
  2. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I don't think Rodgers opened the door for the "new" running QBs. Rodgers has excelled at gaining yards rushing after the pocket has broken down. IMO that's entirely different from QBs running the read option or having any play (other than a sneak) in the offense that calls for the QB to run the ball or fake a run.

    I don't think this is going to last very long as it exposes QBs to unnecessary risks. And look at how teams played Kaepernick after the Packers' debacle in San Fran. I think NFL Ds will quickly adjust. IOW, QBs' ability to throw the ball is still - and IMO - will always be much more important their ability to run the ball.
     
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  3. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    I agree to a certain extent. Obviously, the QB still must be able to throw the ball with some zip and accuracy, regardless of his running ability. But, the game is changing in the sense that more and more QB's are running the read-option in college AND high school. Because of that, the kids that are coming up will be more and more comfortable running some sort of read-option offense in the league. Still, I agree that defenses will adjust and organizations will prefer not exposing their franchise QB's to the unnecessary risks associated with a read-option attack.

    So, long story longer, these new breed of QB will continue, but I don't expect teams to go full-on read-option. Rather, they will use it like SF where it's an added wrinkle they can unleash when teams aren't prepared (a la GB) or simply unable to stop it (a la GB again). But, SF did not rely exclusively, or even a majority of the snaps, the rest of the post-season.
     
  4. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I think you could go back to Tarkington if you want to talk about running QBs. Young was similar to Rodgers. On n on.

    If the game evolving? Somewhat, but the pocket passer isn't getting phased out, in fact I will always go with the pocket passer over the mobile QB. Nothing wrong with being a hybrid though.
     
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  5. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    I didn't really mean read option. As was said, the Niners didn't so much kill the Packers with that as with Kaepernick doing exactly what Rodgers has done except with breakaway speed. Decent coverage, a little bit of pass rush, it seems the D did the job, but the next thing you see is the south end of north bound Kaepernick leaving everybody behind as he breaks into the open. THAT is what we need to stop, at least against the Niners. In football speed, Kaepernick appeared even faster than Griffin's olympic quality speed before his injury. I'm not too pessimistic because I don't seem anybody else coming along with the skillset of Kaepernick, but I sure don't know how the Packers will stop him.
     
  6. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    I think the true read option is not going to last long. Defenses will adjust and are already going to colleges to learn how to defend the read. Once more of the read and run QB's are lost to major injuries like RG3 has had, I think the read option will go away. But these types of QB's that can make all the throws and run are a big challenge to D's because they are so athletic. Hopefully the ref's will adjust their calls, like they have done with big Ben. If your a runner or a threat to be a runner on a consistent basis the two step rule should be stretched and they will take more hard hits. Hard hits= more injury's and shortened carers. I also think the 3-4 defense is the best defense to stop these types of QB's. I can't wait for the SF game.

    I personally cringe every time Arod takes off running.
     
  7. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Nope. As Ivo610 pointed out, there have been "mobile" quarterbacks back to Tarkington and others. Randall Cunningham and Warren Moon were the guys of the 80s. Vick carried the torch a decade ago.

    Until running QBs start winning Super Bowls, they are just another type of quarterback that can succeed but not get you the trophy.
     
  8. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    I personally cringe every time I see ARod holding onto the ball in the pocket too long and then trying to scramble his way out of it.
     
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  9. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Some of you say this won't last long. Maybe it won't.
    But let me ask you this: how many games would we play San Fran before we start shutting him down?
    We showed no progress at all within that game last year.
    That was us though.
    Atlanta and Baltimore did a better job against it though. Not our defense. Not even with Brad Jones & AJ Hawk manning the ILB spots, and we brought both of em back.
     
  10. mayo44

    mayo44 Guest

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    Steve Young and Fran Tarkenton did everything Rodgers does running-wise. Also Rich Gannon. Rodgers didn't introduce anything new to the NFL with his legs and he didn't open any door.
     
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  11. mayo44

    mayo44 Guest

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    Moon doesn't belong on your list. He wasn't a runner. He only averaged about 8 rushing yards per game. He was a pocket passer.
     
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  12. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    What makes me cringe is Kaepernick getting out of contain. I see him as a cut above all those other running QBs mentioned.
     
  13. bobgodd

    bobgodd Cheesehead

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    Maybe you all know already, but there's a bit of misconception around the read-option. The 49ers have been deploying an offense that revolves around heavy use of the Pistol formation. The Pistol is similar to shotgun, except the QB isn't as deep in the pocket, and there's usually a RB directly behind him. There was a fantastic article done on this by one of the 49ers beat writers; but basically the pistol allows the QB to get the ball in the RB's hands faster, and this creates problems with the defense not having enough time to diagnose the running plays. Pistol also allows for a wide variety of play-action, and also read-option type plays.

    I don't think I see the 49ers relying heavily on read-option. I think they believe that Kaep can sling it with the best of them and they're going to let him sit in the pocket and do that if possible. Like one poster said, I think they use the read-option if they see that the defense isn't ready for it. The beauty of it all, is that the can accomplish all or most of this from one singular formation, which does not let the defense key on anything.
     
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  14. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Kaep is every bit as good in the pocket as he is on the run. Yeah, you may see teams that can't find a franchise QB run the read option and put their QB in danger. I remember I used to cringe every time AR ran, then he got the concussion, and that knocked some sense into him. Remember when the NFL was changing to a running QB league, Peyton Manning was the last great prospect of a dying breed, and this kid from Michigan, a pretty good school, who was pretty good in the pocket, dropped to the 6th round because he wasn't athletic enough. That will always be the indictment that keeps pocket passers around.
     
  15. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    Kaepernick, Wilson, and RG3 are all quarterbacks who can run. What i mean is all 3 of those guys are pass first players. To be a QB in this league you have to be able to throw. That's the difference between Tebow and all those guys. He can't throw so thats why he is on the bench. All 3 of those guys can throw the ball in the pocket and are very effective in doing so. The running is additional to their offenses. The Pistol and read option are two things they are able to do because of their running. The Read Option and Pistol wouldn't be as effective if those 3 guys couldn't pass. It is the threat of the pass which sets up the run and the threat of the run that can set up the pass. How ever you look at it. Will it last. We will see
     
  16. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    It's going to last. A mobile QB has been part of the league for 40 years.
     
  17. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Who's the Niners #2 QB now?
    He'll be a factor.
     
  18. bobgodd

    bobgodd Cheesehead

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    Colt McCoy. Lol.
     
  19. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    No love for Wiscy man Tolzein on the Packers forum smh...
     
  20. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    ^^This.

    If Waldon would have consistently held the corner and smacked the heck out of the QB every single play-- whether he had the ball or not (Eric, don't think, just tackle the guy running to your side whether he has the ball or is faking that he has the ball), things might have been different. The OLBs need to hold that edge. No one gets by.

    I have nightmares of that play when Waldon was chasing the RB (who didn't have the ball), while Kaep was out in the open running BEHIND Waldon probably laughing his arse off all the way to the end zone. Embarrassing.

    Bottom line: If the QB acts like he might have the ball, HIT HIM. Even when you "know" he is a decoy.
     
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  21. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    That's what I was posting after the SF game and that's why I think designed QB running plays and plays in which the QB is a decoy is going to be a short-lived phenomena. If Ds adopt this strategy, particularly after the "running" QBs get extensions that mirror or exceed Rodgers' contracts, teams will be less likely to expose them in this way.

    BTW, I don't cringe when Rodgers takes off because after his concussion doing so he's been very smart about it. He is either sliding in the middle of the field in plenty of time or running out of bounds.

    BTW #2, As I posted and linked to before, the Ravens D coaches did the same thing before the Super Bowl that McCarthy did after the loss at SF: They "went to school" with a college program that knows how to defend the option.
     
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  22. mayo44

    mayo44 Guest

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    It's a matter of time before he gets his legs taken out. He's a reckless runner, which might be seen as good in the short term, but it doesn't bode well for him having a productive career of any real length.
     
  23. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    Rodgers didn't open the door because that door was never closed in the first place
     
  24. bobgodd

    bobgodd Cheesehead

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    Most Niner fans are very excited about Tolzein... But it would be hard to see them trading and paying McCoy to be a third stringer.

    One BIG advantage to Tolz remaining the third stringer is that he's become quite good at being the clipboard jockey. I read a story somewhere that those guys are invaluable in providing the starting QB with information he might not see on the field. From what I've read, Tolz is doing a pretty good job at that.
     

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