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Rodgers' Leadership Called Into Question Again

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by El Guapo, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    Urban Dictionary is not a reliable source, or even a good one for that matter, for definitions unless the word is indeed "urban". Stick with a real source when defining words.
     
  2. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Generally overlooked in these Rodgers / Favre leadership comparisons is one major difference: Rodgers shows up to training camp on time whereas Favre did not. While that might seem like a small thing to Favre or his supporters, it is actually a very big thing, the kind of thing that gets you fired. Tangentially, dancing on TV for money when one should be at training camp exercising leadership, especially when leadership is the last lone reason one is still on the squad, also earns you a black mark.
     
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  3. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Regardless of whether Favre showed up for TC or not ... - It was difficult to question his leadership those years when he did lead the Pack ... Irrespective of whether you like/liked the man or not ... You really couldn't question his leadership ...
     
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  4. PackPackPackers

    PackPackPackers Cheesehead

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    This thread is a joke. People can't just admit that Aaron Rodgers is overrated due to NFL rule changes that favor offenses over defenses. I am confident that Aaron Rodgers couldn't have thrown 39 TD's in the mid-1990s like Brett Favre. Plus, who has won 3 MVP's? Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers needs to step up his game and get his head out of his ***. I hate how everyone supports his complaints EVEN when they are completely unfounded. Ugh...it's just so annoying...AARON RODGERS grow a pair and lead a team.

    Now that I think about it, the Packers won the SB because of their defense, NOT because of Aaron Rodgers. He just stole the credit....
     
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  5. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Seriously. The Brett Pevre love is ridicule-ous. Rodgers has just as many SB as Brett and is on course to have way fewer INT. 1 MVP down, 2 to go.

    BTW who was the MVP of that Favre SB?
     
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  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Based on past misunderstandings, I have to ask...are you being "sarcastic"?
     
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  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Let that statement settle in a bit...then explain to me how there is a "regardless". Showing up on time is the minimum threshold for claiming any kind of leadership.
     
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  8. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    Desmond Howard, for the kickoff return TD.
     
  9. PSG

    PSG Cheesehead

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    As an obvious outsider, I am a little surprised by this.
    I always assumed Rodgers was a likeable guy. He is my favorite non-Dolphins player in the NFL.
     
  10. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    It didn’t take long for your true colors to be revealed. I understand HardRightEdge’s hesitation in taking your post seriously because it does appear as a joke. Occasionally I run into football fans who don’t believe there are still Favre fans – people whose allegiance is more to the disgraced former QB than to the team – so every now and then it’s good to have another example. What a shame for so-called Packers fans who dislike and are biased against Thompson, McCarthy and Rodgers because they bought into the idea that Favre was more important than the franchise, as Favre did himself. And look at the kind of “reasoning” it leads to: Rodgers is overrated due to rule changes. As if those changes only apply to Rodgers and the Packers’ offense. IMO the subject of the thread, or that Rodgers’ leadership is being questioned is a little silly but the biggest joke in this thread is your posting.

    And BTW it’s easy to question Favre’s leadership. I’m not going to rehash the litany here but if you’re interested do a search and you’ll find more than one Favre thread.
     
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  11. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I can't stand Farve still.
    I believe if Rodgers was the QB of those teams in the 90's, the Packers would have at least won 1 more Super Bowl, but most likely 2 more.

    True, Rodgers is not perfect. But he's closer to than any other QB in the NFL today.
     
  12. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I like to live in the present.
     
  13. PackPackPackers

    PackPackPackers Cheesehead

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    Lol, when was it assumed that I didn't support Thompson and McCarthy? I never wrote that in any of my posts. There must have been a huge misunderstanding. TT and MM did a solid job of creating an above average tam. Congrats to them, however, that still does not cover up the big flaws this current Packers team has.

    FIRSTLY, I have never bought into the idea that Favre was bigger than the franchise. In my opinion, Favre DID build the franchise where it is today. If Favre never existed, then the Packers probably would have still been a small market team like the Jacksonville Jaguars.

    SECONDLY, people are so afraid to criticize Rodgers because he is the face of the franchise. Most Packer fans are so blind to see any wrong in Aaron Rodgers. He is treated like a king, which is a really annoying, because he is just like any Packer player. He makes BIG mistakes that people seem to not question his skill. Seriously, I hope Rodgers understands that he will NOT make another SB run until the offensive line gets fixed. Favre had to deal with this pretty much during the entire early/mid 2000s. For Favre having a bad offensive line, it meant to him by taking huge risks that usually resulted into throwing interceptions. For Rodgers having a bad offensive line, it meant to him by taking NO risk that usually resulted in lots sacks/fumbles/killing drives. I hate to say this, but an interception and punting back to another team is essentially the same thing. The opposite team will get an extra possession.

    Aaron Rodgers MUST take more chances during pivotal games. There will always be high risk, but the rewards are greater if its successful. This is what made Brett Favre a great player because he made near dead end plays to successful plays due to his unwillingness to take the sack.

    Also, it seems that Aaron Rodgers doesn't want to mess up his "clean" stats/QBR rating/INT rate so he automatically defaults into taking the sack since he doesn't see anything open. Maybe he loves the praise by all the media journalists and ESPN of how good he is at protecting the ball...seriously Aaron? It's a team sport...
     
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  14. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Favre didn’t build the franchise. Harlan, Wolf and Holmgren re-built it but it’s common for “Favre-first” fans like yourself to believe Favre built it. You may not remember but Holmgren came close to replacing your hero with Mark Brunell. We can’t go back in time but with the historically good defense the ’96 Packers had I’d like their chances. That Packers defense finished first in scoring D that season and while they weren’t better than the ’85 Bears D, they surrendered fewer TDs (19 vs. 22) in the regular season.

    Your Favre colored glasses apparently are blurring your perception. Packers fans, let alone “people” criticize Rodgers all the time, mostly for holding the ball too long. And if you hadn’t noticed, the subject of this thread is regarding criticism of Rodgers. BTW, love your excuse making for Favre: No, an INT doesn’t equal a punt. Only an apologist for the NFL’s most prolific thrower of interceptions would attempt such a foolish comparison or advocate for Rodgers to throw more INTs. Here’s the difference: It’s such an obvious point it shouldn’t have to be made but it is possible to overcome a sack and continue a series.

    Thankfully unlike Favre, Rodgers is careful with the ball, both in the pocket and throwing it. Their TD INT ratios are in a post above. Perhaps you didn’t notice but not only is Rodgers’ INT ratio much lower than Favre’s, his TD ratio is higher. But it’s not surprising you don’t get that. One of the characteristics of Favre fans is they’re usually not too good with facts. Like posting that Rodgers hanging onto the ball results in more fumbles. As in most statistical categories (that don’t reflect longevity), Rodgers is significantly better than Favre: According to nfl.com during Favre’s first five years starting for the Packers he fumbled the ball 52 times and lost 21 fumbles. During Rodgers five seasons starting he’s fumbled 33 times, losing 12. I challenge you to find any five-year period in which Favre lost 12 or fewer fumbles.

    One of the few things you got right is it is indeed a team game. Think of Favre’s teammates while they witnessed his foolish recklessness in throwing 6 INTs in a playoff game. Or when he threw that embarrassing game ending “punt of a throw” in OT against the Eagles. Or when he threw the game ending INT in Lambeau against the Giants while a wide open Ryan Grant was right in front of him.
     
  15. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Can't argue there ... pretty much agree with that assessment ...

    On the above I disagree, the NFL has changed immensely in the past 15 years, just look around the league and at the numbers ALOT of QB's are putting up ... - But I digress, that is for another thread ...

    Seriously ... - You started out so well, but then you regress into this ? ... - Come on ... Who are wearing coloured glasses now ???


    On topic though, ... - It seems more people have begun to notice some traits in Aaron Rodgers that are not to be commended ... And like him or not ... in some examples he (Arod) is starting to show glimses of "diva-behaviour" ...
     
  16. Un4GivN

    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    Impressive personal accomplishments for a man who also is...
    • 5-20 in fourth quarter comebacks
    • 1-2 last three playoffs games (Only win coming against a back-up quarterback in the first round)
    • 5 TD and 2 interceptions in last 3 playoff games
    • Taken massive amount of drive killing sacks just to boost his QBR (Which explains why he is ranked 5th in total QBR)
    • Hasnt thrown for 300 in the postseason in last 3 playoff games
    • Hasnt thrown for 3 Tds in last 3 playoff games
    Rodgers is no doubt top 5 quarterback and I am not trying to make it sound like he isnt. But he hasnt shown up in the playoff or in 4th quarters of games. Just observation.
     
  17. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Last time i checked he won the MVP in the SB not a return man.. also Fart had a great defense when the Pack won against the Patriots in that SB so?? If Rodgers plays for as long as Fart did he will win more MVP's and Super Bowls then he did guarantee it.
     
  18. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    There is not even a scintilla of evidence to support this and it only serves to display your bias. It obviously is not 'just an observation'. IMO your objection to me pointing out Favre's meltdowns in the playoffs also shows your bias. Favre was consistently reckless with the ball, even in the biggest games.
     
  19. Un4GivN

    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    Huh?

    Never once have I mentioned Favre, I think A-Rod is far far superior at this given moment than Favre was even in his prime. So that just show your bias to wanting to prove your point.

    And as far as this isn't proven stat... I showed the empirical evidence to this in another thread, A-Rod takes almost twice as many sacks over the last three years as Tom Brady who has ZERO agility. And given the fact that he is given on average the same amount of time in the pocket, per the same stats... And that 7-10 yard losses kill drives. I would say there is plenty of evidence to this.

    Granted this isn't end all, as you could argue Brady's receivers are better, the offensive scheme is better, or that he is playing inferior opponents... It is a good indication that A-Rod takes A LOT of sacks on himself, which in turn hurts the team. That is a FACT.

    Now as I said this before, but I will take a sack over an INT. But A-Rod is definitely not without his own problems in the last 2 years playoff appearences. That's all I am saying.
     
  20. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Sorry about that, got you confused with Quientus.
    You have offered ZERO evidence that Rodgers takes sacks "just to boost his QBR". You've only offered obvious evidence that he takes a lot of sacks. By adding a motive you have absolutely ZERO evidence to back up you are saying Rodgers cares more about stats than winning. That he cares more about stats than he cares about the team. That's complete bovine scatology.
     
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  21. Un4GivN

    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    I will agree partially to that point... Knowing motive is nearly impossible unless he flat out says it.

    So I will change it to simply...
    • Takes a massive amount of sacks
    Whatever the reason is he does this at an alarming rate.
     
  22. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    Drew Brees had 43 this year, Rodgers had 39
     
  23. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    no you can't
     
  24. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    I agree with you that he takes more sacks than he should, we don't know the motive but it's definitely more than he should - you can tell that by watching a few packers games casually let alone every game, every snap like most of us. I obviously don't know the reason but in my opinion it's because he feels that throwing the ball away is "giving up" and he is always trying to make something happen.
     
  25. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I'll bet that's closer to the truth - he takes sacks because he wants to give his receivers a chance to make a big play and because he realizes that a sack is far superior to an INT. And those of us who criticize him for holding onto the ball too long have to recognize the number of times his doing so results in a first down or TD.

    It also needs to be said that the main reason Rodgers is sacked a lot - over the last couple of seasons at least - is because he directs a pass first offense and his "pass protectors" (not just the OL) aren't very good. Also, McGinn (who I believe gets these numbers from the Packers) has Rodgers being responsible for 14 of the teams 55 sacks in 18 games. Like many of you, I think that's too many but it shouldn't be overstated.

    But no worries about this for next season: I think McCarthy has come up with the cure:

    http://if youbelievethisisarealquoteIhaveabridgeforsale.com
     
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