Rodgers Contract

[Sunshinepacker]

The players can fight for their interests in 2021 with next CBA. The NFLPA is advising players to start saving money now; they evidently intend to play hardball with the leverage of a possible strike.

I object to a fully guaranteed Rodgers contract for the following reasons:

1. Whatever bump Rodgers might deserve over Ryan from a market standpoint, a fully guaranteed contract is not it. It is unecessarily excessive.

2. If Rodgers gets tackled again on that right shoulder the team may be cooked for years to come. It would be bad enough trying to replace him even without, say, $30 million per year over 5 years going out the window.

Again, at this point we don't know if Rodgers can still make ALL the throws with the same accuracy and velocity: 3 quarter, side arm, cross body, on the move. A new contract at this juncture should be a moot point. I've noted before his mechanics looked fine on in-the-pocket overhand throws in that last game; the others not so much. I don't think you'd want to pay that money for a pocket passing game manager.

There's a simple thing you can try. Place your left hand on your collarbone and simulate a variety of throws with the right arm. Visa versa for lefties. Feel the variety of movements? There are some fine mechanisms at work in there. Now imagine slapping a plate and a bunch of screws in there. Kind of interesting, don't you think? And any mechanical adjustments to the throwing motion as a result any limited motion or discomfor can then manifest in shoulder or elbow issues.

Look, I have no qualms with being hesitant because youryo waiting to see how his shoulder is holding up. However, once he's shown his shoulder is fine (which should take about two weeks) then what's the problem with guaranteed contracts? A fully guaranteed deal would obviously average less per year because of the security of the deal. At many positions that might be a huge rush, but QB is generally a pretty safe position.

 

[sschind]

While I understand that rationale but first, I doubt a team "throws" a game by using lessor paid incentive guys in key spots, scoring a touchdown in your example. Second, what if scoring a TD paid Player A-Z the same amount of money? Incentive paid contracts would almost have to be a universal thing across each and every team. The Cowboys couldn't start offering guys $1M/TD, just because they have more money. Base salaries + expected bonus = Salary Cap would still keep the market competitive.

I haven't worked this whole thing out yet, but I would love if someone in the NFL would!

If they are all getting paid the same sure. However, if the Packers get down to the 1 yard line and Montgomery gets 1 million per TD and Jones gets 100 K I could see the appeal of putting Jones in.

I used to do a little fantasy football on my daily walk. Not fantasy as we think of it but fantasy as in what if I were a guy with the talent of say Saquon Barkley.
it would go something like this.

Sign a four year deal with a base salary of 1 million dollars guaranteed the first year with salary raises of 1 million a year and bonuses of the following.

100K for every TD I score
500K if I go over 1200 yards (250K if I reach 1000)
500K if I lead the league in rushing (250K if I am in the top 3)
500K if I lead the league in TDs (250 K for top 3)
500K if I am voted to the pro bowl
500K if I am voted all pro
500K for league MVP
500K for SB MVP
1M additional if I reach all 6
100K in additional salary the following year for any of the above goals met but only for the following year

so lets say I score 15 TDs and meet 4 of the goals that means I get 4.5 million for the first year. The second year my salary would be 2.4 million guaranteed on the first day of the league year so I again score 15 TDs and reach 4 of the goals that make 5.9 for the second year and a guaranteed 3.4 the next year and so on.

After my 5th year I sign pretty much an identical deal with the exception of a 5 million dollar signing bonus ( 1 million for each year I played)

Now, just to show that I am a fair guy I also include some negatives.
-100K for every fumble lost
-100K for every game missed 2 consecutive or 3 total
if ever a year goes by that I play at least 12 games but don't reach ANY of the goals my raise is only 500K for the next year.

The numbers might be adjusted a bit and some others might be added (bonus if I lead all RBs in receiving yards or receptions and stuff like that)

I never really sat down and figured it all out as far as the maximum I could make but I'm guessing the numbers would be fairly substantial at the end if my career went like everyone expects Barkley's to go. I also don't think anyone would be able to ***** because I am earning it.

 

[sschind]

Look, I have no qualms with being hesitant because youryo waiting to see how his shoulder is holding up. However, once he's shown his shoulder is fine (which should take about two weeks) then what's the problem with guaranteed contracts? A fully guaranteed deal would obviously average less per year because of the security of the deal. At many positions that might be a huge rush, but QB is generally a pretty safe position.

That's fine if they settle for that but lately they seem to want more overall AND more guaranteed. I'm not saying I would want his but tear up the old contract give him 140 million fully guaranteed over 5 years for a straight 28 million a year no signing bonus nothing pro rated and an even cap hit of 28 million per year.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

That's fine if they settle for that but lately they seem to want more overall AND more guaranteed. I'm not saying I would want his but tear up the old contract give him 140 million fully guaranteed over 5 years for a straight 28 million a year no signing bonus nothing pro rated and an even cap hit of 28 million per year.

Well yeah, his next deal, even if fully guaranteed, will average more per year than his current deal.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If they are all getting paid the same sure. However, if the Packers get down to the 1 yard line and Montgomery gets 1 million per TD and Jones gets 100 K I could see the appeal of putting Jones in.

I used to do a little fantasy football on my daily walk. Not fantasy as we think of it but fantasy as in what if I were a guy with the talent of say Saquon Barkley.
it would go something like this.

Sign a four year deal with a base salary of 1 million dollars guaranteed the first year with salary raises of 1 million a year and bonuses of the following.

100K for every TD I score
500K if I go over 1200 yards (250K if I reach 1000)
500K if I lead the league in rushing (250K if I am in the top 3)
500K if I lead the league in TDs (250 K for top 3)
500K if I am voted to the pro bowl
500K if I am voted all pro
500K for league MVP
500K for SB MVP
1M additional if I reach all 6
100K in additional salary the following year for any of the above goals met but only for the following year

so lets say I score 15 TDs and meet 4 of the goals that means I get 4.5 million for the first year. The second year my salary would be 2.4 million guaranteed on the first day of the league year so I again score 15 TDs and reach 4 of the goals that make 5.9 for the second year and a guaranteed 3.4 the next year and so on.

After my 5th year I sign pretty much an identical deal with the exception of a 5 million dollar signing bonus ( 1 million for each year I played)

Now, just to show that I am a fair guy I also include some negatives.
-100K for every fumble lost
-100K for every game missed 2 consecutive or 3 total
if ever a year goes by that I play at least 12 games but don't reach ANY of the goals my raise is only 500K for the next year.

The numbers might be adjusted a bit and some others might be added (bonus if I lead all RBs in receiving yards or receptions and stuff like that)

I never really sat down and figured it all out as far as the maximum I could make but I'm guessing the numbers would be fairly substantial at the end if my career went like everyone expects Barkley's to go. I also don't think anyone would be able to ***** because I am earning it.

Your last line is the key line for sure. Imagine applying that formula to every player, easy with computer programs. Now at the end of the season everyone can say "yup he earned that amount." As opposed to mostly hearing "this guy is so overpaid or this guy is so underpaid." Pay for performance, a scary concept for some, but I would love it.

 

[Raptorman]

6 years $176-$180 Million. $115-$120 guaranteed. First two years will be lower in base pay to maintain cap friendly deal in those years.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I get what you're saying but why is a guaranteed deal being overpaid? Comparing NFL jobs (or any entertainment industry job) to normal jobs is nonsensical, they just don't compare. In a perfect world teachers and other public servants would be the highest paid. Shazier was an example to others being injured.

A guaranteed deal is a one way deal. It only guarantees the player the money, it doesn't guarantee crap for the team. Now if you want to structure it such that it is either "We guarantee you that you will be paid Z amount of dollars, no matter if you get hurt or your performance drops off. Or we will pay you 2 times Z, but guarantee none of it. You make all that money if you play and your performance is up to expected, I would be fine with something like that. Name me a profession where someone is hired and the moment they sign their name, are guaranteed almost their full contract, no matter what happens.

 

[bigbubbatd]

A guaranteed deal is a one way deal. It only guarantees the player the money, it doesn't guarantee crap for the team. Now if you want to structure it such that it is either "We guarantee you that you will be paid Z amount of dollars, no matter if you get hurt or your performance drops off. Or we will pay you 2 times Z, but guarantee none of it. You make all that money if you play and your performance is up to expected, I would be fine with something like that. Name me a profession where someone is hired and the moment they sign their name, are guaranteed almost their full contract, no matter what happens.

Every other professional sport

 

[Sunshinepacker]

A guaranteed deal is a one way deal. It only guarantees the player the money, it doesn't guarantee crap for the team. Now if you want to structure it such that it is either "We guarantee you that you will be paid Z amount of dollars, no matter if you get hurt or your performance drops off. Or we will pay you 2 times Z, but guarantee none of it. You make all that money if you play and your performance is up to expected, I would be fine with something like that. Name me a profession where someone is hired and the moment they sign their name, are guaranteed almost their full contract, no matter what happens.

Why are we protecting the billionaire's play toys? If a player is valuable enough that teams will guarantee a deal, then guaranteed deals will exist. Now, the player would take a discounted deal in order to get that guarantee (you don't get something for nothing). As for team guarantees, the deal guarantees that the player will be playing for them (if healthy).

Profession's with guaranteed deals? Let's see, pretty much any CEO of a major company (even when company performance is awful, they still get there's). Any major media job (from broadcaster to anchor to actor, etc.), lawyers can be contracted, established authors, coaches in college/professional sports, etc. There are many. It really comes down to how much a company/society values an employee's ability. If the employee is REALLY valuable, then they can leverage that value into a guaranteed deal. That doesn't mean Rodgers will demand a guaranteed deal; QBs are generally pretty healthy and maybe he wants a more lucrative non-guaranteed deal because he assumes he'll play the whole thing out.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Every other professional sport

Sorry, you are right there are 3 (Baseball, Hockey and Basketball) that isn't really every other professional sport though. I also should have said, non-sport professions.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Profession's with guaranteed deals? Let's see, pretty much any CEO of a major company (even when company performance is awful, they still get there's). Any major media job (from broadcaster to anchor to actor, etc.), lawyers can be contracted, established authors, coaches in college/professional sports, etc. .

You might want to check on those contracts before you say they are fully guaranteed for X number of years.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Sorry, you are right there are 3 (Baseball, Hockey and Basketball) that isn't really every other professional sport though. I also should have said, non-sport professions.

Yeah I was mostly just being snarky. I would say an actor and other careers get gauranteed money for their movies whether they flop or not. High profile authors will sign book deals. But all of those ara more similar to a year to year contract. Is there anything that comparable to professional sports? I mean the players are making their livelihood off 2 to 10 years of work and could have injuries that prevent them from working that job going forward. I just think it is a hard comparison

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You might want to check on those contracts before you say they are fully guaranteed for X number of years.

You asked for other professions, I mentioned a number. Now you want me to mention specific deals? To use a football related phrase, you appear to be shifting the goalposts. However, to humor you, I'll point out that Charlie Weiss (like pretty every college/pro coach) was being paid a salary by Notre Dame LONG after he was fired from multiple teams. News anchors and broadcasters often sign a contract with an employer that locks them up; one reason this is done is because the company doesn't want the employee to quit if another media company offers more money for a major story or something like that. CEO's don't get guarantees for X number of years, they just get guaranteed severance packages which are negotiated in advance (go look at what Home Depot's ex-CEO did to share price and then what he got paid when he left). Some lawyers will sign a contract that pays them X amount of dollars guaranteed, irrespective of performance; for a recent example, look at AT&T's comments regarding their contract with Michael Cohen (that's not meant to be political, not calling it good or bad, just using a recent example). I don't want to go on but guaranteed contracts are not exactly the unicorn you make them out to be.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You asked for other professions, I mentioned a number. Now you want me to mention specific deals? To use a football related phrase, you appear to be shifting the goalposts. However, to humor you, I'll point out that Charlie Weiss (like pretty every college/pro coach) was being paid a salary by Notre Dame LONG after he was fired from multiple teams. News anchors and broadcasters often sign a contract with an employer that locks them up; one reason this is done is because the company doesn't want the employee to quit if another media company offers more money for a major story or something like that. CEO's don't get guarantees for X number of years, they just get guaranteed severance packages which are negotiated in advance (go look at what Home Depot's ex-CEO did to share price and then what he got paid when he left). Some lawyers will sign a contract that pays them X amount of dollars guaranteed, irrespective of performance; for a recent example, look at AT&T's comments regarding their contract with Michael Cohen (that's not meant to be political, not calling it good or bad, just using a recent example). I don't want to go on but guaranteed contracts are not exactly the unicorn you make them out to be.

LOL, you are talking about non-compete clauses, severance pay, buyouts and retainers. NCC's are not guarantees on salary, they are guarantees that a media person can't just quit and go elsewhere. Those are being challenged by the way. Retainers are still earned and refundable if the lawyer does not perform the duties required. Same with up front money for actors. Buyouts and severance pay are reduced amounts from the contractual amount and are viewed by the payee as a way to get out from underneath the full contract. Seriously, Michael Cohen, you want to use him as an example of guaranteed contracts? Maybe guaranteed under the table money, but I assure you, while getting paid, he was doing some sort of work, legal or not and would stop getting paid large sums of money if he couldn't work because he ended up in jail.

Plain and simple, I am talking about signing a contract that guarantees someone like Aaron Rodgers $100M+ no matter what he does after his name is on the dotted line. You may think it's great for Football and I love Aaron Rodgers, but I think it would be the worst thing for football to completely go that route.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah I was mostly just being snarky. I would say an actor and other careers get gauranteed money for their movies whether they flop or not. High profile authors will sign book deals. But all of those ara more similar to a year to year contract. Is there anything that comparable to professional sports? I mean the players are making their livelihood off 2 to 10 years of work and could have injuries that prevent them from working that job going forward. I just think it is a hard comparison

Actors my be guaranteed an amount, but that is if they finish their work. Authors the same. They might get upfront money, but I doubt if they don't turn in their work, are they paid. But yes, I think when you are talking about a professional athlete being paid 10M+ and up for work that hasn't even taken place and doesn't have to, you are getting into some unusual territory. But what do I know, I'm just hunting unicorns.

 

[Poppa San]

But what do I know, I'm just hunting unicorns.

I always get mine.

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[Deleted member 6794]

You have great reasons for MM to be an offensive coordinator. Sadly, that's not his job.

There aren't any head coaches being responsible for play calling on both sides of the ball. McCarthy should have replaced Capers earlier though.

However, once he's shown his shoulder is fine (which should take about two weeks) then what's the problem with guaranteed contracts? A fully guaranteed deal would obviously average less per year because of the security of the deal. At many positions that might be a huge rush, but QB is generally a pretty safe position.

The Packers would find themselves in a salary cap mess if Rodgers suffers a career ending injury by fully guaranteeing his next contract.

 

[PackerDNA]

If I had to bet, I think Rodgers will angle for a shorter deal along the lines of what Cousins got. I think he'll be looking to be set up for one more mega deal in a few years.

 

[Mondio]

There is always give and take in contracts. I can't see guaranteed contracts as a very good way to do business in the NFL. Not if you want to maintain a quality team and not with the contracts that are being given out now. In a way they are, with signing bonuses, but depending on the contract that can make a 60 million dollar contract worth only 20 in guarantees pretty easily and of course aren't guaranteed for 5 years, but rather 2-3 and then very high salaries and if not performing they're cut. If they go to guaranteed contracts, a lot will change. They aren't going to start giving out 60 million dollar guarantees to a Linebacker over 4 years. Maybe you'll see slightly better than average salary guarantees and higher than normal bonus type structures. Point being. the money out can't change a whole lot from how it's done now when all is said and done. Money paid out is going to stay relatively the same percentage wise to players.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If I had to bet, I think Rodgers will angle for a shorter deal along the lines of what Cousins got. I think he'll be looking to be set up for one more mega deal in a few years.

With Rodgers having two years left on his current contract and him turning 35 in December I'm convinced the extension he will most likely sign this offseason ends up being his last mega deal.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

There aren't any head coaches being responsible for play calling on both sides of the ball. McCarthy should have replaced Capers earlier though.



The Packers would find themselves in a salary cap mess if Rodgers suffers a career ending injury by fully guaranteeing his next contract.

MM's offensive play calling and system, for many years, weren't exactly innovative or outstanding. Last year he tried some new things so we'll see what happens.

As for the salary cap mess....welcome to sports. The Packers can find themselves in a cap mess if they draft badly, sign the wrong free agent, etc. The Packers would also find themselves in better cap shape if Rodgers DIDN'T get hurt and was being paid less for the security of a guaranteed deal. Would be nice to sign Rodgers to $5m per year less in a guaranteed deal and be able to sign someone like Casey Hayward with that savings. I mean, can be we honest? If Rodgers gets hurt, the Packers are F'd anyway, the cap won't matter.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

There is always give and take in contracts. I can't see guaranteed contracts as a very good way to do business in the NFL. Not if you want to maintain a quality team and not with the contracts that are being given out now. In a way they are, with signing bonuses, but depending on the contract that can make a 60 million dollar contract worth only 20 in guarantees pretty easily and of course aren't guaranteed for 5 years, but rather 2-3 and then very high salaries and if not performing they're cut. If they go to guaranteed contracts, a lot will change. They aren't going to start giving out 60 million dollar guarantees to a Linebacker over 4 years. Maybe you'll see slightly better than average salary guarantees and higher than normal bonus type structures. Point being. the money out can't change a whole lot from how it's done now when all is said and done. Money paid out is going to stay relatively the same percentage wise to players.

Guaranteed deals will come when and only when the players demand it. Kirk Cousins was a beginning. It won't be a fast process and, at first, will only go to those positions that rarely experience career ending injuries (basically only QBs). However, the NFL is (i believe) the only pro sport in America that doesn't have guaranteed deals and that can't last forever. The owners and GMs love it because it saves them money and allows them to be slightly lazier than their counterparts in other leagues.

 

[Mondio]

And they'll be different, like Cousins was, from what were accoustmed to. Like I said. He basically signed a 3 year deal guarantee over a 5 year deal to spread some bonus around and either be cut or restructure in 3-4 years. It wasn't some ground breaking contract. I think a little rich for a guy of his caliber, but a QB got over paid, shocker.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

MM's offensive play calling and system, for many years, weren't exactly innovative or outstanding. Last year he tried some new things so we'll see what happens.

As for the salary cap mess....welcome to sports. The Packers can find themselves in a cap mess if they draft badly, sign the wrong free agent, etc. The Packers would also find themselves in better cap shape if Rodgers DIDN'T get hurt and was being paid less for the security of a guaranteed deal. Would be nice to sign Rodgers to $5m per year less in a guaranteed deal and be able to sign someone like Casey Hayward with that savings. I mean, can be we honest? If Rodgers gets hurt, the Packers are F'd anyway, the cap won't matter.

The Packers offense has been one of the most successful units in the league over McCarthy's tenure therefore I feel it's wrong too harshly criticize him for not being innovative.

I agree there are different ways to get into trouble with the salary cap but offering a soon-to-be 35-year old quarterback coming off two broken collarbones a fully guaranteed contract is definitely one of them.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The Packers offense has been one of the most successful units in the league over McCarthy's tenure therefore I feel it's wrong too harshly criticize him for not being innovative.

I agree there are different ways to get into trouble with the salary cap but offering a soon-to-be 35-year old quarterback coming off two broken collarbones a fully guaranteed contract is definitely one of them.

It's been well chronicled that, for many years, McCarthy's offense did very little to actually help the receivers get open and embrace some of the more modern aspects of today's passing game. MM had been blessed with the best QB in NFL history, Will Muschamp could have an elite offense with Rodgers at QB.

So, you're hesitant to give Rodgers a deal because you think he'll suffer a career ending injury sometime in the next three years? Any deal will come after rosters has shown his shoulder is fine. Once that happens the only issue with a guaranteed deal would be if Rodgers got hurt and the injury ended his career. It's not like the Packers are gonna sign him to a non guaranteed deal and then cut him in year three if he breaks his shoulder again; they'll give him time to come back from any injury.