Rodgers and the art of avoiding INTs

[captainWIMM]

MMQB article about Rodgers being the most efficient QB in the league:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/09/...nts-green-back-packers-avoiding-interceptions

 

[Munch]

I'm pretty sure Brett used that exact same philosophy...

 

[TJV]

That is really a great read: Kudos to Peter King. I particularly liked the discussion of Rodgers' INT in the game at Chicago at the end of the 2013 season. As King says, Rodgers is brutally honest in discussing that play. Don't forget O-I-O!

As fans we sometimes/often get lost in the trees forgetting about the 'forest perspective'. I was lucky enough - and am old enough to have witnessed Lombardi's Packers from the time he arrived in Green Bay. Of course I didn't realize what an historic figure he and his teams were right away, but even at a young age, I certainly did before Lombardi left. It's a different time, a different era, and a different league but we too are witnessing something historic: Aaron Rodgers is one of the greatest NFL QBs of all time, a certain Hall of Famer. I know some believe it's too early to say that but I've seen more than enough to believe it. From King's article:

Rodgers threw 520 passes last season. Five were intercepted. Of those five, four deflected off a receiver’s hands. Bacarri Rambo of the Buffalo Bills did what no other opposing defensive player, over 16 regular-season games covering 519 other throws, could do: He intercepted a poorly thrown ball by Rodgers.

King reports that in the last two seasons, Rodgers has thrown 11 interceptions of 810 passes. In his career, Rodgers has thrown six red zone INTs of 561 passes. Of course there's more to quarterbacking than avoiding INTs: Rodgers is the second-fastest NFL QB to throw 200 TDs, needing only 99 games (Marino at 89 is first). And of course Rodgers holds the NFL record for fewest INTs to get to 200 TDs, with 53. Second place is Brady with 88 INTs. 3.77 TDs per INTs over that span to 2.27 for second place so far in NFL history.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-2nd-fastest-to-200-career-passing-touchdowns

For fans and teams titles are, and should be most important. My humble advice particularly to young Packers fans is don't lose sight of the forest for the trees.

After visiting the Packers, you walk away thinking: How could any team be in better shape at quarterback for the next five years than Green Bay?

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

This is such a huge change from Favre. I think I'm correct in saying that Favre has thrown more career INTs than any other QB, or at least he's close to the top.

The cost of TOs is huge. Not to take anything away from Favre the football player (versus Favre the person but I'm not going there). His career stats are of course off the charts, yards, TDs, MVPs, and all the others). But ya have to wonder if there would have been another SB or two if he had been more careful with the ball. We all remember the INT he threw in the OT NFCCG against the Giants, and he would have had the Vikings in the SB if he had just sat down. Instead he makes a totally unnecessary throw resulting in an INT when they were in FG range. Result - NO goes on to beat the Colts in the SB. Thank God.

This just makes me appreciate Rodgers all the more. Favre, for some reason, felt he alone was responsible for making the game winning plays. That's just an out of control ego. As great as Rodgers is, and maybe because of it, he keeps his ego in check and even now wants to be coached. Favre reached a point somewhere along the line where he thought he was bigger than the team and bigger than the game. That's not to take away frrom his accomplishments, but rather that he could have accomplished so much more if he had been less self-centered.

We are very fortunate to have Mr. Rodgers on our side of the football.

 

[Mondio]

There's a trade off, both are great in my book. How many times have we gone 3 and out because Rodgers didn't want to force a pass? How has that affected games? I love Rodgers, think he's the smartest, most technically sound QB in the league by a lot. I probably do put him a tick above Favre, but i'm not going to diminish what Favre did. He was a little careless at times, and at times his will to throw it all aside and just throw it, won us a lot of games too.

Very different QB's, neither are perfect, both are great.

 

[toolkien]

I could be long winded about it, but this makes it pretty clear and concise what value Favre and Rodgers bring/brought during the tenderloin of their careers.

http://pfref.com/tiny/Duop8

 

[JBlood]

I'll take Rogers over Favre any day; but until he wins a few more Championships he doesn't approach Starr in my book. I don't think the Packers win all those Championships without Starr, and a lot of it was his unbelievable performances in the Championship games. No. 4 owns the all time record for playoff interceptions. Until 2010 Starr held the record for fewest--one of the reasons we won 5 Championships with him.

 

[Mondio]

Never saw Starr until he was a coach. I assume he was pretty good

 

[Sky King]

Never saw Starr until he was a coach. I assume he was pretty good

He was money on the biggest NFL stage. Best Packer QB in the clutch that I have ever had the privilege to watch. Both Favre and Rodgers may trump his athleticism and were/are a pure pleasure to watch, as well. But Bart Starr was the best of them all when it mattered the most. His focus and discipline were second to none.

 

[Ogsponge]

I really wish the rest of this team would get its collective together before the most efficient (by a mile) QB in the history of the NFL leaves the game with less SB appearances and equal SB wins to the QB that threw more interceptions than any QB in the history of the NFL.

Unfortunately, that is exactly where we are headed. In my opinion you can't even begin to discuss Rodgers as the GOAT unless he wins at minimum 2 more SB. He can win less than Brady and Montana and be considered but not 3 or 2 less. Championships matter, they matter a lot. Just look how the old timers (nothing personal guys!) espouse the virtues of the great Bart Starr, and rightfully so.

Championships matter, a lot more than most people think. If Marino had won say 2 Super Bowls, most people would consider him the GOAT but he only cracks the top 10 of mot "lists" due to the lack of Super Bowls.

In closing Rodgers is awesome, the rest of the team and staff from coaches to TT have let him down by not putting together a better defense and special teams and playing to win in the important games instead of playing to not lose.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

tt brought in some flippin dude from the crappy niners, and the crappy saints before that. then he wasted his first first round pick on a qb when we had a 3time mvp ironman. (which is maybe his biggest feat, hank arron and cal ripken in one, you could say...)then!!! runs said ironman out of town to play the kid... remember that?!?!?!
ted, mccarthy the qb guru, and the myth, the man, the living legend, mr rodgers. they climbed to the top. the championship in 11 was premature imo. and we should have won it last year... evens out, you could say. ugh...

rodgers said hes playing 8 more years... bet he gets 3 more in thet time...

 

[Carl]

I really wish the rest of this team would get its collective together before the most efficient (by a mile) QB in the history of the NFL leaves the game with less SB appearances and equal SB wins to the QB that threw more interceptions than any QB in the history of the NFL.

Unfortunately, that is exactly where we are headed. In my opinion you can't even begin to discuss Rodgers as the GOAT unless he wins at minimum 2 more SB. He can win less than Brady and Montana and be considered but not 3 or 2 less. Championships matter, they matter a lot. Just look how the old timers (nothing personal guys!) espouse the virtues of the great Bart Starr, and rightfully so.

Championships matter, a lot more than most people think. If Marino had won say 2 Super Bowls, most people would consider him the GOAT but he only cracks the top 10 of mot "lists" due to the lack of Super Bowls.

In closing Rodgers is awesome, the rest of the team and staff from coaches to TT have let him down by not putting together a better defense and special teams and playing to win in the important games instead of playing to not lose.

Let's not pretend the defense and special teams have lost all the playoffs games alone.

In 2011, the offense vs the Giants was a turnover machine and Rodgers didn't play well. In 2013, the defense gave up an average amount in the playoffs without Clay and Shields and D. Jones playing OLB since they ran out of healthy OLBs. The offense only put up 20. Rodgers also didn't have a great game. Last season, the offense was average at best in Seattle. The defense gave up 3 TDs and had 4 picks. That should be enough with Rodgers. He did throw a bad end zone pick early while in FG range too. That seems to be forgotten.

I can think of one example of playing not to lose. One game shouldn't be generalized to more important games.

There's also Rodgers being hurt last year and losing mobility and the injuries in 2013 mentioned above. It's nowhere as simple as saying the supporting cast has always let Rodgers down and they play not to lose in the important games. In fact, during the Super Bowl run, the defense was more of a deciding factor in two of the four games than Rodgers.

 

[captainWIMM]

This is such a huge change from Favre. I think I'm correct in saying that Favre has thrown more career INTs than any other QB, or at least he's close to the top.

Favre has thrown 59 more interceptions than the next one on the all-time list (George Blanda). Rodgers, to this point, has been intercepted only 57 times.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Let's not pretend the defense and special teams have lost all the playoffs games alone.

In 2011, the offense vs the Giants was a turnover machine and Rodgers didn't play well. In 2013, the defense gave up an average amount in the playoffs without Clay and Shields and D. Jones playing OLB since they ran out of healthy OLBs. The offense only put up 20. Rodgers also didn't have a great game. Last season, the offense was average at best in Seattle. The defense gave up 3 TDs and had 4 picks. That should be enough with Rodgers. He did throw a bad end zone pick early while in FG range too. That seems to be forgotten.

I can think of one example of playing not to lose. One game shouldn't be generalized to more important games.

There's also Rodgers being hurt last year and losing mobility and the injuries in 2013 mentioned above. It's nowhere as simple as saying the supporting cast has always let Rodgers down and they play not to lose in the important games. In fact, during the Super Bowl run, the defense was more of a deciding factor in two of the four games than Rodgers.

There was an interesting stat posted during last night's telecast as the Patriots were running the ball to burn clock with 4:00 minutes left and a 2 TD lead: In the Pat's last 9 games last season including the playoffs, the Pats D did not surrender a 4th. quarter TD. Pittsburgh broke that string with 0:02 left on the clock when it didn't matter, rendering who might recover the ensuing on-side kick irrelevant.

This was a game where the Pat's defense surrendered 464 yards, collected one turnover and forced 2 punts.

Or as a poker playing acquaintance once put it, "little possums walk early, big possums walk late".

 

[lambeaulambo]

I really wish the rest of this team would get its collective together before the most efficient (by a mile) QB in the history of the NFL leaves the game with less SB appearances and equal SB wins to the QB that threw more interceptions than any QB in the history of the NFL.

Unfortunately, that is exactly where we are headed. In my opinion you can't even begin to discuss Rodgers as the GOAT unless he wins at minimum 2 more SB. He can win less than Brady and Montana and be considered but not 3 or 2 less. Championships matter, they matter a lot. Just look how the old timers (nothing personal guys!) espouse the virtues of the great Bart Starr, and rightfully so.

Championships matter, a lot more than most people think. If Marino had won say 2 Super Bowls, most people would consider him the GOAT but he only cracks the top 10 of mot "lists" due to the lack of Super Bowls.

In closing Rodgers is awesome, the rest of the team and staff from coaches to TT have let him down by not putting together a better defense and special teams and playing to win in the important games instead of playing to not lose.

HERE HERE!!

 

[lambeaulambo]

If the D was even pedestrian in the last 3 years, there would most assuredly by at least one more silver football trophy where it belongs. To say that it is not true is, as buggah bill would say...RUBBISH.

 

[Carl]

If the D was even pedestrian in the last 3 years, there would most assuredly by at least one more silver football trophy where it belongs. To say that it is not true is, as buggah bill would say...RUBBISH.

Like 13th in points per game last season?

To blame it all on the defense doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is one of the major stats I like to look at.....its not everything.....but its important.

http://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-passing-tdintratio.

Farve is #27 on the list.

 

[captainWIMM]

This is one of the major stats I like to look at.....its not everything.....but its important.

http://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-passing-tdintratio.

Farve is #27 on the list.

The margin Rodgers' has over everyone else in that category is absolutely amazing!!!

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

There's a trade off, both are great in my book. How many times have we gone 3 and out because Rodgers didn't want to force a pass? How has that affected games? I love Rodgers, think he's the smartest, most technically sound QB in the league by a lot. I probably do put him a tick above Favre, but i'm not going to diminish what Favre did. He was a little careless at times, and at times his will to throw it all aside and just throw it, won us a lot of games too.

Very different QB's, neither are perfect, both are great.

I agree. And with Favre, there was no changing him anyway, he had a will of iron. Out of all of his stats, the consecutive game streak still defies explanation. He may not have been the best QB to play the game, but he was the most fun to watch. As you say, they are both great - we were lucky to have Favre for all those years, and we're lucky to have Rodgers. I mean, how often is one HOF QB succeeded by another HOF QB? The only other time I can recall this happening was with Joe Montana and Steve Young.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

Favre has thrown 59 more interceptions than the next one on the all-time list (George Blanda). Rodgers, to this point, has been intercepted only 57 times.

Thanks Captain. I thought you would have the stat.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

He was money on the biggest NFL stage. Best Packer QB in the clutch that I have ever had the privilege to watch. Both Favre and Rodgers may trump his athleticism and were/are a pure pleasure to watch, as well. But Bart Starr was the best of them all when it mattered the most. His focus and discipline were second to none.

Well said, five championships pretty much says it all. Starr was the perfect example of a "money" player. I do get irritated when I don't see him included on lists of the top 5 QBs. Granted those lists are subjective but cmon! The name of the game in the NFL or any other sport is winning it all. That's why in the SB era you're always going to see Montana, Brady, Bradshaw. He was absent from a similar top 10 list that I thought was put together by a writer at the Journal/Sentinel. That's why for all of their gaudy stats, I don't consider Peyton Manning or Dan Marino as belonging on those lists. That's not really fair - Marino at least never had a great, consistent supporting cast. Manning on the other hand just is not a "money" player. I've never seen a QB look as totally lost as Manning in the 2014 SB against Seattle.

 

[JBlood]

Well said, five championships pretty much says it all.

Yup. All the rest is for fantasy football.

 

[Half Empty]

Not to mention games that got them to the championship, e.g., the Ice Bowl. A completely inept offense in the 2nd half, and then the drive when absolutely essential. Somehow, we KNEW Starr (and the team) were going to do it (whatever and whenever IT was). That's what makes the 2nd Favre Super Bowl (not blaming it on Favre, just identifying the game), the 2011 and 2014 seasons, et. al., so frustrating.

 

[Sky King]

That game-winning drive may be the finest clutch moment in NFL history. Not only was he battling an excellent team, perhaps the most talented team across the board in the league at the time, but also the harshest elements a QB ever faced in such a pressure-filled, no-room-for-errors circumstance. He called all the plays, including the winner, and he prevailed magnificently. He may have been the toughest QB mentally to have ever played the game. And also one of the most humble.

To accomplish what he did in his career and to still not be considered amongst the top two or three QBs of all time is an injustice to Starr and the facts. There are passers and there are QBs. He has been woefully underrated by many sportswriters and fans who totally dismiss performance and records (prior to the first day they became interested in the game). He won three championships in a row, something that none of his contemporaries and successors have ever accomplished, and maybe never will.

Montana, Brady, Staubach, Bradshaw, Aikman, Elway, Rothlisberger...Bah!