Reporter from USA Today-gives Pack rank 28 for draft

[Deleted member 6794]

Difference between the two is that games the packers lost featured running backs going wild. Can you remind me, which game did the Packers lose because the RB or TE went crazy?

While the Packers didn´t lose a game because of a RB (receiving) or TE going wild I don´t think it´s less important to improve in this area as well as it affects the run defense as well. An ILB being able of covering man-to-man frees up a safety to support in the run game.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

While the Packers didn´t lose a game because of a RB (receiving) or TE going wild I don´t think it´s less important to improve in this area as well as it affects the run defense as well. An ILB being able of covering man-to-man frees up a safety to support in the run game.

To be clear, I'm certainly not averse to having an ILB that can cover. I just think that on the list of defensive players, that ranks fairly low. By importance on defense, I'd rank them pass rusher (dline or OLB), corner, NT, safety, ILB. Pass rushing is obviously the most important part of a defense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To be clear, I'm certainly not averse to having an ILB that can cover. I just think that on the list of defensive players, that ranks fairly low. By importance on defense, I'd rank them pass rusher (dline or OLB), corner, NT, safety, ILB. Pass rushing is obviously the most important part of a defense.

While I agree that ILB is probably at the bottom of importance for most teams it seems like there is at least some merit to having a good one. Five out of the eight teams who had an ILB graded in the top 10 according to PFF (New England and Baltimore had two) finished in the top 10 in scoring defense as well.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

While I agree that ILB is probably at the bottom of importance for most teams it seems like there is at least some merit to having a good one. Five out of the eight teams who had an ILB graded in the top 10 according to PFF (New England and Baltimore had two) finished in the top 10 in scoring defense as well.

Well it would make sense that the best defenses would have highly ranked players. I would guess (I haven't checked) that those teams also had very highly graded dlinemen and corners.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well it would make sense that the best defenses would have highly ranked players. I would guess (I haven't checked) that those teams also had very highly graded dlinemen and corners.

Surprisingly only four of the best corners and defensive linemen played for a top 10 defense last season.

 

[sschind]

You don't draft players with the practice squad in mind. You draft guys for your 53! The practice squad is the back-up plan when they are not good enough for your 53.

Moreover I think Ripkowski can contribute right away on special teams. Therefore I think he has a good shot to make the 53 and the even the gameday 45. Key for him will be to prove that he is a better special teams player than Perillo and Backman.

You may not draft them with the PS in mind but you draft players that need continued development. That development may come buried at the end of the 53 man roster or on the PS. The Packers have a lot of guys competing for 2 or 3 backup RB/TE spots. It is likely several of them will land on the PS.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

Nate Davis from USA Today has the Packers draft ranked 28th overall. While I'm well aware of the fact that an assessment like this is completely useless for at least some years I wanted to post it nevertheless as an introduction to my thoughts about the team's draft selections.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...illiams-jaguars-vikings-trae-waynes/26793997/

Thompson did a good job of adding talent in the secondary with Damarious Randall being able to play multiple positions and Quinten Rollins being an extremely raw prospect with a ton of upside. In addition I really like the selection of Christian Ringo in the sixth round as I expect him to be able to provide some pass rush in subpackages. Ripkowski seems to be a talented fullback but I'm not convinced the Packers had to spend a draft pick on the position.

I'm a little indecisive about what to think about picking Jake Ryan. He's capable of making an impact in defending the run but I would have rather preferred to get a ILB capable of playing all three downs.

Montgomery was a complete reach in the third round IMO as I don't expect him to either get snaps at receiver or as the third RB. He will immediately improve our kickoff return unit but I expect to get more production out of a third round pick.

I have a hard time understanding why Thompson traded up to draft Hundley, who will hopefully won't play a meaningful down for the team over the next four seasons.

Backman could turn into a nice receiving threat at TE but it's tough to evaluate him with UAB mostly not playing against elite competition.

Overall Thompson improved one position in need of an upgrade in cornerback while once again mostly inexplicably ignoring ILB. Ot seems like the team is OK with having Raji and Guion at NT for the 2015 season.

I'm intrigued by undrafted free agent signings Matt Rotheram and James Vaughters. But I really have a hard time understanding why Thompson decided to bring in four running backs at a position where the starter and backup are set whilenot bringing in a single ILB to at least compete with Barrington, Ryan, Bradford and all the other quality players at the position.

All in all I think your analysis is fair. I know there's been a lot of grumbling about ILB. IMHO there were no ILBs worhty of a first round selection. I'm ok with Randall, he just sneaked up the boards but even Mayock had him going at #20 (for what that's worth!). My point is that TT wasn't reaching with this pick. And I'm ok with Rollins. In the pass-happy NFL DB is a valuable position. And most of the 2nd round worthy ILBs were gone. Ty Montgomery seems like a pure STs pick, and round 3 is pretty high to make such a selection. But given the sad state of STs, if Montgomery can produce as a returner and give a consistent boost to field position or TD returns, it will be worth it.


I think TT and the rest of GB intelligensia are not that worried about ILB. I like Ryan and was hoping we'd get him. CMIII will continue to see action in the middle, and given his dramatically improved production after the move last year, that's hard to argue.


And I do like Ringo. He's a Daniels "mini-me". Bringing in all the UDFA RBs is perplexing. I know they want to limit Lacy's snaps given his hard hitting style, but thought Starks addressed that. May be something going on w Starks.....

Ripkowski will provide addl protection for ARod. As for Hundley, he was too talented to pass up and Tolzien is still unproven as back up. If they can deelop Hundley he will a) make a reliable back up and b) become trade bait ala Hasselback.


As far as USAToday's ranking, these things are meaningless for at least two years.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Surprisingly only four of the best corners and defensive linemen played for a top 10 defense last season.

If you look at the top-15 at their position, then there are seven 3-4 DEs on the top-10 scoring defenses, three 4-3 DEs, 4 DT/NTs, and 8 CBs. I think I must be looking at different rankings in PFF because I'm seeing Sherman, Revis, Sean Smith (KC), Corey Graham (BUF) at corner alone on top-10 scoring defenses.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Why no thread for the many other sites that have the Packers draft between a B and B+? Doesn't fit the narrative that this was a bad draft?

SB Nation: B

Mel Kiper Jr.: B

CBS Sports: B+

Sports Illustrated: B+

NFL.com: B

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/...-grades-nfc-north-bears-vikings-packers-lions

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I put this in another thread, but makes more sense here.

This article sums up my feelings about all the post draft talk of players and "grades" I'm not saying it isn't fun to talk about, but I don't loose too much sleep over how our draft selections will pan out in the next 1-4 years, they do or they don't or something in between

https://footballisstupid.wordpress....-grades-are-doesnt-stop-people-from-doing-it/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If you look at the top-15 at their position, then there are seven 3-4 DEs on the top-10 scoring defenses, three 4-3 DEs, 4 DT/NTs, and 8 CBs. I think I must be looking at different rankings in PFF because I'm seeing Sherman, Revis, Sean Smith (KC), Corey Graham (BUF) at corner alone on top-10 scoring defenses.

Yeah, I posted there are four cornerbacks on top 10 defenses. I only took a look at the best overall defensive lineman.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Why no thread for the many other sites that have the Packers draft between a B and B+? Doesn't fit the narrative that this was a bad draft?

SB Nation: B

Mel Kiper Jr.: B

CBS Sports: B+

Sports Illustrated: B+

NFL.com: B

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/...-grades-nfc-north-bears-vikings-packers-lions

I just posted these grades because Nate Davis was the only one actually ranking all 32 teams. Just read my entire post and you will realize that I don´t think it was a bad draft by Thompson. There are some picks I like (Randall, Rollins and Ringo) while I´m undecided on Ryan, Ripkowski and Backman. I didn´t like selecting Montgomery in the third round and spending two picks on Hundley who will hopefully not play a meaningful down during his tenure with the Packers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here's PFF's review of the Packers draft:

Round 1: Damarious Randall, CB/S, Arizona State
Grade: C

A bit out of left field as we had really only evaluated Randall as a safety and the Packers really weren’t in the market for one. Randall is reportedly switching to cornerback, though, the position he played his last year at Mesa Community College. Reviewing his play we noted his strong coverage skills in the slot where he spent 259 of his 975 snaps last season. Of those plays, 129 were passing plays and he allowed eight of 23 targets for 136 yards and a 52.1 passer rating.

Depth Chart Fit: All accounts point to an open competition at starting corner across from Sam Shields. Unlikely to unseat incumbent Casey Hayward right was, Randall will vie for snaps at nickel corner with Quinten Rollins.

Round 2: Quinten Rollins, CB, Miami (OH)
Grade: A

Our favorite corner from a school outside the Power 5 in the draft, only one player had more combined interceptions and pass breakups than Rollins’ 15 (seven interceptions and eight pass breakups). Those numbers are all the more impressive considering Rollins played just one season of college football after four years of basketball. For the year he allowed a 53.8% catch rate, 1.02 yards per coverage snap, and a 45.6 quarterback rating against. Level of competition is definitely a concern, but he showed well against Cincinnati and at the Senior Bowl.

Depth Chart Fit: Same as Randall’s above.

Round 3: Ty Montgomery, WR, Stanford
Grade: D

The consensus among all the analysts that watched Montgomery was that he is an extremely talented football player, but that his best position might not be receiver. Montgomery is explosive with the ball in his hands. His 17 missed tackles forced on 61 catches was the best rate among receivers with at least 50 catches. The problem is getting the ball in his hands. His ball skills are below average and he lost out on 50-50 balls far too much. He’ll need a lot more polish in his route running as well if he is going to mesh with quarterback Aaron Rodgers.

Depth Chart Fit: Starting kick returner and will compete for fourth receiver spot with Jared Abbrederis and Jeff Janis.

Round 4: Jake Ryan, LB, Michigan
Packers fans were getting antsy with the glaring need at linebacker left unaddressed through the first three rounds, but in the end Ryan was a solid value in the fourth. Ryan already looks the part from a strength and athleticism standpoint. In the middle of Michigan’s defense he was asked to regularly stack and shed he is already one of the most developed linebackers in the class in that respect. His 14.5 run stop percentage was the second highest of any linebacker in the class and he was the highest-graded linebacker at the East-West Shrine game. In coverage Ryan was solid to a fault, rarely taking chances or breaking early on routes and he finished with one interception and one pass breakup on the season.

Depth Chart Fit: Has versatility to compete for starting position at both inside linebacker positions and likely to see playing time early.

Round 5: Brett Hundley, QB, UCLA
Backup quarterback was almost the downfall of the 2013 Packers season and now it’s finally been properly addressed. Hundley was the second most accurate quarterback in the class with a 77.9 accuracy percentage last season, but a lot of that came on shorter passes. The UCLA quarterback completed only 43% of his passes over 10 yards downfield compared 86% of pass 10 yards or shorter. That downfield accuracy will be a major point of emphasis as he goes through Mike McCarthy’s famed quarterback school.

Depth Chart Fit: Might not overtake Scott Tolzien right away without a grasp for the offense, but Hundley is the long-term plan at back up QB.

Round 6: Aaron Ripkowski, FB, Oklahoma
Ripkowski did a little bit of everything for the Sooners last year. He lined up at fullback on 68% of his snaps, 29% at tight end, and 3% split wide. For the season he graded out positively with plus grades in every PFF category except for penalty. From a pure run blocking standpoint he had the fourth-highest grade in the class.

Depth Chart Fit: Backup fullback and immediate special teams contributor.

Round 6: Christian Ringo, DI, Louisiana-Lafayette

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Ringo absolutely dominated the Sun Belt conference last season. His 15.8 pass rushing productivity on 238 pass rushing snaps dwarfed all other interior linemen in the NCAA last season (next closest was 12.1). His 11.2 run stop percentage was also fifth in the draft class. The only problem for Ringo is that outside of one game against Mississippi, all of his production came against very low level FBS competition. How that will translate to the NFL is uncertain and that’s why he fell to the sixth round.

Depth Chart Fit: He might take some time to develop, but Ringo should see time as a sub-package interior rusher as the season wears on.

Round 6: Kennard, Backman, TE, UAB

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Not a big bruiser of a tight end at 6-foot-3 and 242 pounds, but a more than competent blocker, nonetheless. Finished with the fifth-highest blocking grade in the class and was the only one in the Top 5 to also finish with a positive receiving grade. Backman spent 74% of his snaps inline, 14% split wide, and 12% from the backfield.

Depth Chart Fit: With not much talent at tackle beyond the starters, and no signed UDFAs, Goode has a strong chance of making the roster.

The Undrafted

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James Vaughters, ED, Stanford: One of the most productive against the run with a 12.4 run stop percentage last season which was tops among Power 5 edge defenders.

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Matt Rotheram, G, Pittsburgh: Named to our inaugural All-American Team. Rotheram ended the season with the lowest downgrade rate in run blocking in the FBS.

Bernard Blake, CB, Colorado State: Showed a nose for the ball with 11 passes defended, tied for second most in the class.

Javess, Blue, WR, Kentucky: Dropped five passes in 34 catchable passes and averaged 6.0 yards after the catch.

Malcolm Agnew, RB, Southern Illinois: Didn’t break a tackle and averaged 1.6 yards after contact per attempt on 10 carries in his only FBS game against Purdue.

Ricky Collins, WR, Texas A&M-Commerce: Didn’t play a snap against FBS competition last year.

Adrian Coxson, WR, Stony Brook: Dropped two passes and caught two others for 50 yards in only FBS competition against Connecticut last year.

John Crockett, RB, North Dakota State: Broke three tackles on 17 carries and averaged 8.1 yards per carry with 2.2 coming after contact against Iowa State in NDSU’s only FBS action.

Tavarus Dantzler, LB, Bethune-Cookman: Played two games against FBS competition and graded out very well against FIU and UCF. Racked up six stops and two hurries in 109 snaps, most coming at outside linebacker.

Fabbians Ebbele, T, Arizona:His 97.8 pass blocking efficiency was 12th-best in the draft class.

Alonzo Harris, RB, Louisiana-Lafayette: 74.5% of his yards came after contact, the highest percentage in the draft class.

Mitchell Henry, TE, Western Kentucky: Dropped five balls in 37 catchable passes and graded negatively in run blocking on the season.

Lavon Hooks, DI, Ole Miss:Graded above average against both the run and pass in a very limited role that saw him play 195 snaps last season.

Raymond Maples, RB, Army: Broke three tackles on 45 carries and averaged 1.8 yards after contact per attempt.

Larry Pinkard, WR, Bluefield College: Didn’t see a snap against FBS competition last year.

Marcus Reed, G, Fayetteville State: Didn’t see a snap against FBS competition last year.

Jimmie Hunt, WR, Missouri:Dropped seven balls on 46 catchable passes and broke seven tackles on the season. 720 of his 741 snaps came from the slot.

Ladarius Gunter, CB/S, Miami: Gunter’s .79 yards per coverage snap was 22nd best in the draft class. Took 151 of his 558 snaps at safety last season.

James Castleman, DI, Oklahoma State: Graded positively against both run and pass with the 16th-highest grade of any defensive tackle in the draft class.

Jermauria Rasco, ED, LSU:Rasco’s 7.6 run stop percentage was 14th best among defensive ends in the class.

 

[HardRightEdge]

As far as the draftees go, I agree with this right down the line, with a couple of additional notes:

If Randall vies for snaps with Rollins at nickel, they'll both be vying with Hyde. If that's the way it turns out, neither of the top 2 picks will have contributed much of anything to improve the defense in 2016. And it certainly needed improvement.

Regardless of Montgomery's best fit, he would not have been taken in the 3rd. round to run the ball and return kickoffs. The value in this this pick will rise or fall with how he shapes up as a receiver.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Randall vies for snaps with Rollins at nickel, they'll both be vying with Hyde. If that's the way it turns out, neither of the top 2 picks will have contributed much of anything to improve the defense in 2016. And it certainly needed improvement.

Regardless of Montgomery's best fit, he would not have been taken in the 3rd. round to run the ball and return kickoffs. The value in this this pick will rise or fall with how he shapes up as a receiver.

As we've discussed in another there will be a wide open competition for the spot at outside corner opposite Shields with probably four guys having a chance at grabbing it.

With the Packers having three quality starters at receiver and Lacy and Starks at RB I have a hard time believing Montgomery will get a ton of snaps on offense. The coaching staff will probably find a way to get him involved in some creative ways but I don't expect huge production out of him.

 

[HardRightEdge]

As we've discussed in another there will be a wide open competition for the spot at outside corner opposite Shields with probably four guys having a chance at grabbing it.

With the Packers having three quality starters at receiver and Lacy and Starks at RB I have a hard time believing Montgomery will get a ton of snaps on offense. The coaching staff will probably find a way to get him involved in some creative ways but I don't expect huge production out of him.

If Janis and Abbrederis continue to have performance and injury issues, and with the TEs being just serviceable receivers, I would not be surprised to see Montgomery get some snaps at slot in 4-wide or as the #3 injury replacement. There's a long way to go...the guy who gets the #4 job will boil down to the guy in whom Rodgers has the most confidence.

Since Montgomery has "slot" written all over him, he'll get a long look as the Cobb backup. As I noted previously, Cobb is the only true slot receiver on the pre-draft roster. Nelson can certainly play there, but that's not optimal. Further, if Nelson or Adams missed time, it stands to reason Cobb would move to the outside with the #4 taking the slot.

A slot at #4 would serve the same function as Barclay does at OT, with Cobb being the flex player as with Bulaga. Since Bulaga can flip to LT, Barclay serves to cover the backup need at both OT positions, so too could Cobb flip to wideout.

That's the concept. The proof, as always, is in the putting.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Janis and Abbrederis continue to have performance and injury issues, and with the TEs being just serviceable receivers, I would not be surprised to see Montgomery get some snaps at slot in 4-wide or as the #3 injury replacement. There's a long way to go...the guy who gets the #4 job will boil down to the guy in whom Rodgers has the most confidence.

Since Montgomery has "slot" written all over him, he'll get a long look as the Cobb backup. As I noted previously, Cobb is the only true slot receiver on the pre-draft roster. Nelson can certainly play there, but that's not optimal. Further, if Nelson or Adams missed time, it stands to reason Cobb would move to the outside with the #4 taking the slot.

A slot at #4 would serve the same function as Barclay does at OT, with Cobb being the flex player as with Bulaga. Since Bulaga can flip to LT, Barclay serves to cover the backup need at both OT positions, so too could Cobb flip to wideout.

That's the concept. The proof, as always, is in the putting.

Montgomery´s route running and hands aren´t anywhere close to earn Rodgers´ trust. I would be surprised if he would actually end up fourth on the depth chart at WR.

 

[Luca]

If Janis and Abbrederis continue to have performance and injury issues, and with the TEs being just serviceable receivers, I would not be surprised to see Montgomery get some snaps at slot in 4-wide or as the #3 injury replacement. There's a long way to go...the guy who gets the #4 job will boil down to the guy in whom Rodgers has the most confidence.

Since Montgomery has "slot" written all over him, he'll get a long look as the Cobb backup. As I noted previously, Cobb is the only true slot receiver on the pre-draft roster. Nelson can certainly play there, but that's not optimal. Further, if Nelson or Adams missed time, it stands to reason Cobb would move to the outside with the #4 taking the slot.

A slot at #4 would serve the same function as Barclay does at OT, with Cobb being the flex player as with Bulaga. Since Bulaga can flip to LT, Barclay serves to cover the backup need at both OT positions, so too could Cobb flip to wideout.

That's the concept. The proof, as always, is in the putting.

FYI, apparently he lined up more often wide than in the slot at Stanford. But I agree that his skillset screams slot. So I expect him to be a slot player for us, but we will have to see.

Bryan Hall on twitter:
"New Packer, Ty Montgomery lined up out Wide 75% of the time, Slot 20% and Backfield 5% during 2014 season at Stanford"

"New Packers WR Ty Montgomery did not have a typical WR route profile on his targets last year: 32% WR screens, 23% Hitches, 12% Go Routes."

"Montgomery was most productive on WR Screens (26-31, 208yds, 1 TD, 105.4). N at all on the Go Routes (1-12, 32yds, 1TD, 2INT, 27.8)"

"63 of Montgomery's 99 tgts came inside the numbers, behind the LOS or under 10 yds. Forced 17 MTs on 61 recs and 5 more on 24 run atts"

 

[brandon2348]

Montgomery is a guy you try to get the ball to on 4-5 designed plays that allow him to utilize his open field skills no matter where he lines up. He is a "Playmaker."

 

[HardRightEdge]

FYI, apparently he lined up more often wide than in the slot at Stanford. But I agree that his skillset screams slot. So I expect him to be a slot player for us, but we will have to see.

Bryan Hall on twitter:
"New Packer, Ty Montgomery lined up out Wide 75% of the time, Slot 20% and Backfield 5% during 2014 season at Stanford"

"New Packers WR Ty Montgomery did not have a typical WR route profile on his targets last year: 32% WR screens, 23% Hitches, 12% Go Routes."

"Montgomery was most productive on WR Screens (26-31, 208yds, 1 TD, 105.4). N at all on the Go Routes (1-12, 32yds, 1TD, 2INT, 27.8)"

"63 of Montgomery's 99 tgts came inside the numbers, behind the LOS or under 10 yds. Forced 17 MTs on 61 recs and 5 more on 24 run atts"

Didn't I read from PFF that 75% of Montgomery's routes were inside? And he's sure built like a guy who can take a lickin' running slot routes in the danger zone.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Didn't I read from PFF that 75% of Montgomery's routes were inside? And he's sure built like a guy who can take a lickin' running slot routes in the danger zone.

Montgomery lined up 75% of the time on the outside but 63 of his 99 targets were either between the number, behind the LOS or under 10 yards.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Montgomery´s route running and hands aren´t anywhere close to earn Rodgers´ trust. I would be surprised if he would actually end up fourth on the depth chart at WR.

So it would appear. But Abbrederis is coming off an ACL and needed to add some bulk. Janis has had "catch radius" issues which is more dangerous to the INT count than dropping some balls.

Many have noted Montgomery has kick return credentials, though I have not looked at that aspect of his game. It's worth noting that Janis' key utility on the game day roster would have been as the KO returner. I think we can conclude the Packers are not locked onto Janis as a #4 given Montgomery's characteristics.

It will be horse race for these backup spots.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Montgomery lined up 75% of the time on the outside but 63 of his 99 targets were either between the number, behind the LOS or under 10 yards.

That's the slot profile...inside routes and the occasional wildcat or RB role.