Regarding Moss

[celticraider]

I believe Moss still is a great player. When he first came to Oakland, he was excited to be here and was doing some serious damage until he got cheap shotted against SD (which of course drew no flag) and he gutted out the rest of the season for us while he was severely hobbled. His first year in Oakland he topped 1,000 yards and scored 8 tds and he was a cripple for more than half the season. He was routinely making one big play a game on a not so great offense until the injury vs SD.

The next season, when we hired Shell (huge mistake) he didn't mesh well with Randy or anyone else for that matter. He benched Jerry Porter right from the get go, then traded his best friend on the team who Moss is high on (Doug Gabriel) and started a journeyman Alvis Whitted. Moss came into camp excited and ready to tear **** up, but after these things happened he made his things are "fishy" speech. From then on it was running half speed routes, and giving no effort to fight for the ball. His lack of production directly correlates to his lack of effort.

I believe the organization is as much at fault as Randy for him quitting last year. Pains me to say that, but I wouldn't want to work in that ***** environment either the way Shell basically took a team that has lots of talent on paper, benches some, alienates others, and institutes some archaic offense expecting everyone to be happy. I do hold him accountable for not being a professional.

I've told everyone here all along Al won't part with Randy unless he feels he is getting value, and recent reports seem to back that up. Al Davis won't ever trade a talent like Randy Moss unless he feels he is getting value in return.

Adam Schefter is reporting we aren't shopping Moss, only fielding calls for him and we expect high compensation if we are to trade him. I believe this knowing Al, and also knowing Moss and Kiffin have had great phone conversations and Moss is excited to play in Oakland again.

here is a link to the article on nfl.com

Sorry for writing a book about this, but I have a lot of insight into the situation being a long time Raider fan and am able to fairly answer some of the questions you guys have had such as what we will probably want to receive back, and if he really quit on the team.

Overall, I feel if we do trade him, I wouldn't want it to be to the Pack, who I root for vehemently against any team but Oakland since you signed CWood. I'm not sure this team is a Randy Moss away from a SB, and Al will most likely want a 1st round draft pick for Randy. With Bretts age, and an injection of talent needed at other positions, I would rather see the Pack build through the draft than spend a 1st on a guy who might quit on you if things start to slide.

I have to admit, I'm also starting to like more players on your team, and could see me liking the Pack even after he is gone. Here is to a good draft, and a good season

:beer:

 

[porky88]

Great stuff and I think your very accurate with everything.

I think what's going to hold back a deal with the Raiders and any team is that Oakland wants to much. I've always been a Moss fan even when he was in Minnesota. He was very exciting to watch and a talent like him is rare. I hope for his sake he is traded from Oakland to a different team. I'd prefer the Packers but either way I don't want to see one of the greatest talents of this time get wasted away because of the Raiders are in as bad as shape as any franchise in all of sports.

 

[warhawk]

TT will not give Al a first round pick. Period.

It looks to me it is boiling down to the Pack or staying put as NE and others have made moves that don't lend themselves to signing Moss any longer.

Now Al has a decision to make after last years disaster. He has a new HC, no QB, and a WR that WILL cause problems when the losing starts.

If All considers PRODUCTION from a deal he would be much safer taking a player and a 2nd round pick and getting out of there before another year of crap hits him right between the eyes.

 

[Pack93z]

Celtic - I very much enjoyed reading your post and I can see some of what you are saying with Moss vs Raiders and who quit on who. But Randy's track record is always been..."Randy will play when Randy wants to play." When the tough gets going, Randy crawls under the covers and throws a fit.

 

[vikefan]

Back when Moss was traded to Oakland, I said that Randy will be injury prone, with that hamstring of his.

I still like Randy, but he is not worth a first round choice and will never play a full season again, imo.

 

[digsthepack]

A 3rd, yes. A 1st, no.

 

[celticraider]

Great stuff and I think your very accurate with everything.

I think what's going to hold back a deal with the Raiders and any team is that Oakland wants to much. I've always been a Moss fan even when he was in Minnesota. He was very exciting to watch and a talent like him is rare. I hope for his sake he is traded from Oakland to a different team. I'd prefer the Packers but either way I don't want to see one of the greatest talents of this time get wasted away because of the Raiders are in as bad as shape as any franchise in all of sports.

You have to look at this from Al's perspective. He gave up a #1 pick, 7th overall and a former first round pick in Napoleon Harris to acquire Moss. Like you said, a talent like Moss is rare. You probably aren't going to find a Randy Moss in this draft, you don't in most. Before injuries slowed him down a bit in 2004, this guy was re-writing the record books. He came out in 2005 for Oakland on fire and was dominating, then injuries crept in yet he still was very productive. If Randy Moss isn't worth a 1st to anyone, why would Al trade him.

TT will not give Al a first round pick. Period.

It looks to me it is boiling down to the Pack or staying put as NE and others have made moves that don't lend themselves to signing Moss any longer.

Now Al has a decision to make after last years disaster. He has a new HC, no QB, and a WR that WILL cause problems when the losing starts.

If All considers PRODUCTION from a deal he would be much safer taking a player and a 2nd round pick and getting out of there before another year of crap hits him right between the eyes.

Al never thinks the Raiders are going to lose, or be a disaster. They are an organization with a rich history of winning and domination. We really aren't all that far removed from a superbowl and have a very dynamic young defense. I believe you will see a different Raider team this season. We had the third ranked defense in the NFL and an atrocious coaching staff. I see us taking a big step this season in the right direction. Hopefully 8-8, with what the Saints did last year you never know.

A second round pick just doesn't add up to the upside of Randy Moss. I can assure you Al Davis would rather keep a hall of fame talent on the bench than trade it for a 2nd. I can see a 2nd with a conditional pick the next season, but Al values talent over anything else. The past few years have been pretty rough, but overall I would say the man has done a hell of a job for our franchise. We have played in about 30% of AFC Championship games to date, including 2 this decade, shoulda been three since we all know Brady Fumbled :thumbsup:

Celtic - I very much enjoyed reading your post and I can see some of what you are saying with Moss vs Raiders and who quit on who. But Randy's track record is always been..."Randy will play when Randy wants to play." When the tough gets going, Randy crawls under the covers and throws a fit.

Thats why I don't want him on the Pack. I want Woodson to get his ring :thumbsup:

 

[porky88]

You have to look at this from Al's perspective. He gave up a #1 pick, 7th overall and a former first round pick in Napoleon Harris to acquire Moss. Like you said, a talent like Moss is rare. You probably aren't going to find a Randy Moss in this draft, you don't in most. Before injuries slowed him down a bit in 2004, this guy was re-writing the record books. He came out in 2005 for Oakland on fire and was dominating, then injuries crept in yet he still was very productive. If Randy Moss isn't worth a 1st to anyone, why would Al trade him.

I think you have to do it for the better of the franchise. Look at the effect TO leaving Philly had. The Eagles were very competitive this year and almost advanced to the NFC Title Game.

While I think hanging onto Moss would benefit the Raiders now, I think rebuilding is the right move and you can't do that with Moss on the roster in my opinion.

If I'm sitting with the 1st pick I don't take Quinn or Russell. I don't know about you but neither of them wow me to the point I have to absolutely have them. Calvin Johnson does. The Raiders made amends with Jerry Porter who has lot of talent. Gabriel is back as well. The right move would be to trade Moss for as much value as possible and take Johnson with the top pick in the Draft in my opinion.

You'll then have extra picks and more leverage to work around. The QB market is not great but not awful either. You can send a pick to the Chiefs (or try to) to get Trent Green. Even Bledsoe makes sense. If Chris Simms comes on the market he'd make some sense. Why not look at Drew Stanton in the Draft? The Raiders won 3 Super Bowls and not once did they have a 1st round QB leading them the way.

I'm not Al Davis so it's not my call. Personally Davis won't trade Moss for anything less than a 1st because he's stubborn. He can't swallow his pride and admit a mistake. Trading Moss for anything less than what he gave up for him would be Davis admitting he screwed up.

:twocents:

 

[Drich318]

I would give the Raiders a 3rd and a 4th next year. That is a high as I would be willing to go to get Moss. He would be a great addition to the team, but we should give a 1st or even a 2nd round pick. We have all the bargaining chips here. The Raidrs have to trade Moss. And really, only the Packers are serious about trading for him.

 

[warhawk]

And his pride might very well get in the way of doing the right thing.

When they bring the rookie QB in who WILL get pressure every time he drops back and Moss doesn't see two decent balls a game he is going to wish very much Randy was not a Raider.

Moss will ASSURE him of that.

 

[celticraider]

I would give the Raiders a 3rd and a 4th next year. That is a high as I would be willing to go to get Moss. He would be a great addition to the team, but we should give a 1st or even a 2nd round pick. We have all the bargaining chips here. The Raidrs have to trade Moss. And really, only the Packers are serious about trading for him.

Why do we have to trade Moss? Also, we have gotten calls from New England, the Jaguars, the Bucs, and the Pack. You aren't the only team interested, we aren't in cap trouble, we don't have to trade him. I want him gone, but to say we have to isn't accurate.

I think we are drafting either Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson knowing Al and his track record. Russel has a shot I would think, but I would be willing to bet Al this thinking with the 3rd ranked defense in football and Randy Moss, we would be better off taking a shot at a really talented former 1st rounder like David Carr or Joey Harrington and hope he turns out to be the next Plunkett. I'm basing this on years of experience as a Raider fan, and knowing how Al operates. I would say we will trade for David Carr and he will be the starting QB in 2007 (which I would love).