Referee Mistakes

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

How can we stop the "after effect" of botched mistakes/calls by the refs in important playoff games??
It's sad when the refs admit: "Oh gee sorry, we made a mistake".

Do you realize those mistakes from the ref's prevent great teams that bust they're @ss all season long
keeps those teams from playing in the Super Bowl?

 

[Heyjoe4]

How can we stop the "after effect" of botched mistakes/calls by the refs in important playoff games??
It's sad when the refs admit: "Oh gee sorry, we made a mistake".

Do you realize those mistakes from the ref's prevent great teams that bust they're @ss all season long
keeps those teams from playing in the Super Bowl?

I agree with you Mike. Refs, like all of us, make mistakes.

At the same time, I’m amazed at how many calls the refs get right. It’s easy to make a call on reply when speed is reduced to just a few frames/second, or still. Refs don’t have that luxury, needing to make a correct call with one try at game speed.

The better ref crews will take time to talk through a close play. And the HCs can challenge twice, up to a max of four I think, assuming they get the 1-3 challenges right.

Beyond this, I’m not sure what more can be done without messing with the flow of a game.

That doesn’t help when our team loses on a bad call. The game is played by players and refs trying to do their best. Most of the time, probably more so with the refs, they get it right.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

How can we stop the "after effect" of botched mistakes/calls by the refs in important playoff games??
It's sad when the refs admit: "Oh gee sorry, we made a mistake".

Do you realize those mistakes from the ref's prevent great teams that bust they're @ss all season long
keeps those teams from playing in the Super Bowl?

I saw a pretty egregious one in the National Championship game when a Miami Hurricane player belted Indiana's quarterback with the crown of his helmet - The quarterback didn't even have the ball at the time. A clear case of targeting which would have resulted in the player being tossed out of the game, but no call. Even the announcers couldn't believe it.

 

[El Guapo]

How can we stop the "after effect" of botched mistakes/calls by the refs in important playoff games??
It's sad when the refs admit: "Oh gee sorry, we made a mistake".

Do you realize those mistakes from the ref's prevent great teams that bust they're @ss all season long
keeps those teams from playing in the Super Bowl?

Have you ever been a referee? Start there...

 

[El Guapo]

I saw a pretty egregious one in the National Championship game when a Miami Hurricane player belted Indiana's quarterback with the crown of his helmet - The quarterback didn't even have the ball at the time. A clear case of targeting which would have resulted in the player being tossed out of the game, but no call. Even the announcers couldn't believe it.

Once the QB handed off the ball, the umpires follow the ball not the fake. The announcers "couldn't believe it" but did mention that once he handed off the ball he became an unprotected player. What they didn't discuss is the responsibility of the officials. The referee and umpire on passing plays watch the middle of the line and the QB. On running plays, their attention stays with the middle of the line and follows the ball. They are not supposed to keep watching the QB on running plays.

Can you imagine if they missed a big call (such as a facemask) committed against the RB because they were instead watching the QB carry out his fake?

 

[Guacamole]

Once the QB handed off the ball, the umpires follow the ball not the fake. The announcers "couldn't believe it" but did mention that once he handed off the ball he became an unprotected player. What they didn't discuss is the responsibility of the officials. The referee and umpire on passing plays watch the middle of the line and the QB. On running plays, their attention stays with the middle of the line and follows the ball. They are not supposed to keep watching the QB on running plays.

Can you imagine if they missed a big call (such as a facemask) committed against the RB because they were instead watching the QB carry out his fake?

The referee is primarily responsible for all action around and to the QB/Passer.

Interactive: NFL Officials' Roles and Responsibilities | NFL Football Operations

Ever wonder exactly what each @NFL official's roles and responsibilities are on the field? Check out this interactive feature to learn what happens on each play.

operations.nfl.com

 

[adambr2]

I’m actually kind of amazed that NFL referees can watch 22 people at once and still generally get things right. Are there mistakes, of course, but at least modern replay lets us immediately fix the egregious (non penalty related) ones.

As opposed to watching baseball where there is essentially one thing going on at once and the guy behind the plate still often gets it wrong.

 

[milani]

I agree with you Mike. Refs, like all of us, make mistakes.

At the same time, I’m amazed at how many calls the refs get right. It’s easy to make a call on reply when speed is reduced to just a few frames/second, or still. Refs don’t have that luxury, needing to make a correct call with one try at game speed.

The better ref crews will take time to talk through a close play. And the HCs can challenge twice, up to a max of four I think, assuming they get the 1-3 challenges right.

Beyond this, I’m not sure what more can be done without messing with the flow of a game.

That doesn’t help when our team loses on a bad call. The game is played by players and refs trying to do their best. Most of the time, probably more so with the refs, they get it right.

Now there are crews that do not get to call playoff games. Not sure if the best crews are picked or do they go by seniority. There are more playoff games now so there has to be more crews.

 

[Half Empty]

Have you ever been a referee? Start there...

Really? We have to be a (fill in the blank) before we can criticize one? Lots of real-world examples, but let's stick to the gridiron. I've never played pro ball, but I don't think I'm out of line to think or a dozen or so Packer things from the 2014 Seattle game that were undeniably wrong.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Once the QB handed off the ball, the umpires follow the ball not the fake. The announcers "couldn't believe it" but did mention that once he handed off the ball he became an unprotected player. What they didn't discuss is the responsibility of the officials. The referee and umpire on passing plays watch the middle of the line and the QB. On running plays, their attention stays with the middle of the line and follows the ball. They are not supposed to keep watching the QB on running plays.

Can you imagine if they missed a big call (such as a facemask) committed against the RB because they were instead watching the QB carry out his fake?

Referees don't all follow the ball...If they did, holding on the offensive line would never be called, defensive holding away from the ball would never be called, etc.

According to the Sporting News:

The NCAA football rulebook says targeting means "a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball."

What is targeting in college football? Explaining the rules for ejections, differences vs. NFL and more | Sporting News

Here is everything to know about targeting penalties in college, from the definition to notable examples and a complete history.

www.sportingnews.com

It doesn't say anything about the player being protected or defenseless, it just basically says it's illegal.

And therefore, it should have been called.


Fortunately, it didn't alter the outcome of the game. Mendoza was bloodied but continued to play, and play well enough to be Miami.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The referee is primarily responsible for all action around and to the QB/Passer.

Interactive: NFL Officials' Roles and Responsibilities | NFL Football Operations

Ever wonder exactly what each @NFL official's roles and responsibilities are on the field? Check out this interactive feature to learn what happens on each play.

operations.nfl.com

Interesting stuff, thanks Guac.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Now there are crews that do not get to call playoff games. Not sure if the best crews are picked or do they go by seniority. There are more playoff games now so there has to be more crews.

I'm not sure how playoff and SB refs are selected. I'm pretty sure though it's the first time these guys have worked with each other. Given their very specific responsibilities, not sure it matters that much.

 

[SINROSSCO]

How can we stop the "after effect" of botched mistakes/calls by the refs in important playoff games??
It's sad when the refs admit: "Oh gee sorry, we made a mistake".

Do you realize those mistakes from the ref's prevent great teams that bust they're @ss all season long
keeps those teams from playing in the Super Bowl?

I am from the old school, I'm 82. Form me officiating has become too technical i.e.

How can we stop the "after effect" of botched mistakes/calls by the refs in important playoff games??
It's sad when the refs admit: "Oh gee sorry, we made a mistake".

Do you realize those mistakes from the ref's prevent great teams that bust they're @ss all season long
keeps those teams from playing in the Super Bowl?

I'm from the old school Lombardi days and 82. I didn't finish my post earlier. We forget that we are human and we all make mistakes. Has anyone seen a perfect game to this day? Obviously, we would think officials would be honest and I believe that most of them are. Back in the day prior to instant replay 99.9% of the time the officials did a good job. I recently saw a link of the most blown calls in the playoffs. When you listen to the official in the booth with the commentators it just goes to show how technical the game has become. It's become too complicated for anyone to come up with an honest ruling much less why they ruled the way they did. All calls should be made between the officials on the field, not in NY or wherever they go. There are seven officials on the field, certainly a majority of them should be able to make the call via instant replay provided them on the field.
They need to go back to simplification. On what is a catch, possession, spotting the ball i.e. where the runners body touches the ground, why not the ball? That is the rule in breaking the plain on the goal line. Why should that be any different? When a receiver stretches over the yard marker for a first down. Again, why isn't that applied on the field by runners? i.e. where is the ball compared to where the body touches. How about advancing a fumble? This is a game of tackle. Why should someone who recovers a fumble be down by a simple touch or the same with an interception? Again, it's a game of tackle, not touch. The Eagles favorite play, the tush push. Back in the day when I played you could not push a back or receiver from behind. Could that rule have been changed? I really don't think so, and shame of the refs for letting it happen. It's a horrible play. We got the same result in having the line set in breaking the huddle and go on a no count. It worked every time. Inside of adding more rules, they need to eliminate. Some of the rules changes for me are beyond stupid especially with the kick offs. They have taken one of the most exciting plays out of football, "The Kick off" That rule to me is applying to Sissie's. Girls in skirts. I believe a returner has a better chance under the old rule. The chance of a running back now becomes more difficult because other players are moved closer to him from the get go. What is the argument in changing? Don't see any difference in the injury factor. I think the premise should be the runner escaping all these other players from the other side, then eleven players ganging up on one runner. It's sort of lowering the pitcher's mound, so the batters have an advantage over the pitcher. I can't imagine robot's coming into play. That would really ruin the game wouldn't it? We need simplification to the game, all decision's made on the field of play. Four of the seven referees make the final decision on calls. All plays to be reviewed if necessary until the end of the game.
.

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Have you ever been a referee? Start there...

Now there are crews that do not get to call playoff games. Not sure if the best crews are picked or do they go by seniority. There are more playoff games now so there has to be more crews.

I am from the old school, I'm 82. Form me officiating has become too technical i.e.

I'm from the old school Lombardi days and 82. I didn't finish my post earlier. We forget that we are human and we all make mistakes. Has anyone seen a perfect game to this day? Obviously, we would think officials would be honest and I believe that most of them are. Back in the day prior to instant replay 99.9% of the time the officials did a good job. I recently saw a link of the most blown calls in the playoffs. When you listen to the official in the booth with the commentators it just goes to show how technical the game has become. It's become too complicated for anyone to come up with an honest ruling much less why they ruled the way they did. All calls should be made between the officials on the field, not in NY or wherever they go. There are seven officials on the field, certainly a majority of them should be able to make the call via instant replay provided them on the field.
They need to go back to simplification. On what is a catch, possession, spotting the ball i.e. where the runners body touches the ground, why not the ball? That is the rule in breaking the plain on the goal line. Why should that be any different? When a receiver stretches over the yard marker for a first down. Again, why isn't that applied on the field by runners? i.e. where is the ball compared to where the body touches. How about advancing a fumble? This is a game of tackle. Why should someone who recovers a fumble be down by a simple touch or the same with an interception? Again, it's a game of tackle, not touch. The Eagles favorite play, the tush push. Back in the day when I played you could not push a back or receiver from behind. Could that rule have been changed? I really don't think so, and shame of the refs for letting it happen. It's a horrible play. We got the same result in having the line set in breaking the huddle and go on a no count. It worked every time. Inside of adding more rules, they need to eliminate. Some of the rules changes for me are beyond stupid especially with the kick offs. They have taken one of the most exciting plays out of football, "The Kick off" That rule to me is applying to Sissie's. Girls in skirts. I believe a returner has a better chance under the old rule. The chance of a running back now becomes more difficult because other players are moved closer to him from the get go. What is the argument in changing? Don't see any difference in the injury factor. I think the premise should be the runner escaping all these other players from the other side, then eleven players ganging up on one runner. It's sort of lowering the pitcher's mound, so the batters have an advantage over the pitcher. I can't imagine robot's coming into play. That would really ruin the game wouldn't it? We need simplification to the game, all decision's made on the field of play. Four of the seven referees make the final decision on calls. All plays to be reviewed if necessary until the end of the game.
.

Great point of view here.
Your right, if football gets any worse, I might have to look for another pass time.

 

[SINROSSCO]

It might just come to that. I think too with the politics coming into it, I have friends that no longer watch it. And, it shouldn't be there. People go to a game to get rid of
it for a while in their life. I used to fish a lot, and it was a time spent about catching the next fish only, no other distractions. Fishing night be a nice pass time for you. Your idea sort of goes hand in hand with a book that I am reading, full of good advice on the distractions in are life, i.e. the cell phone, lack of rest and sleep time. are life is to busy with everything, we need to take a rest. Over the years I have said, the fans should boycott the NFL. The cost of players is beyond comprehension. Joe Namath is the one to started all that business, and honestly for me, he wasn't worth it. I think then it was a 400,000 contract and that was without the sockings. lol

 

[Poppa San]

Have you ever been a referee? Start there...

Yes. I was drafted and terrible at it.

My kid's BB coach and grade school AD was a HS official. Good enough to do the state tourneys. Anywho to calm overly loud and obnoxious parents he had a policy. Either you calm down / take a break in the commons or you will be on the court next week calling the action. (Usually the younger 3-4th grade games.) That isn't how I got drafted. Baseball and football leagues coaches reffed games they weren't involved in.

 

[milani]

I am from the old school, I'm 82. Form me officiating has become too technical i.e.

I'm from the old school Lombardi days and 82. I didn't finish my post earlier. We forget that we are human and we all make mistakes. Has anyone seen a perfect game to this day? Obviously, we would think officials would be honest and I believe that most of them are. Back in the day prior to instant replay 99.9% of the time the officials did a good job. I recently saw a link of the most blown calls in the playoffs. When you listen to the official in the booth with the commentators it just goes to show how technical the game has become. It's become too complicated for anyone to come up with an honest ruling much less why they ruled the way they did. All calls should be made between the officials on the field, not in NY or wherever they go. There are seven officials on the field, certainly a majority of them should be able to make the call via instant replay provided them on the field.
They need to go back to simplification. On what is a catch, possession, spotting the ball i.e. where the runners body touches the ground, why not the ball? That is the rule in breaking the plain on the goal line. Why should that be any different? When a receiver stretches over the yard marker for a first down. Again, why isn't that applied on the field by runners? i.e. where is the ball compared to where the body touches. How about advancing a fumble? This is a game of tackle. Why should someone who recovers a fumble be down by a simple touch or the same with an interception? Again, it's a game of tackle, not touch. The Eagles favorite play, the tush push. Back in the day when I played you could not push a back or receiver from behind. Could that rule have been changed? I really don't think so, and shame of the refs for letting it happen. It's a horrible play. We got the same result in having the line set in breaking the huddle and go on a no count. It worked every time. Inside of adding more rules, they need to eliminate. Some of the rules changes for me are beyond stupid especially with the kick offs. They have taken one of the most exciting plays out of football, "The Kick off" That rule to me is applying to Sissie's. Girls in skirts. I believe a returner has a better chance under the old rule. The chance of a running back now becomes more difficult because other players are moved closer to him from the get go. What is the argument in changing? Don't see any difference in the injury factor. I think the premise should be the runner escaping all these other players from the other side, then eleven players ganging up on one runner. It's sort of lowering the pitcher's mound, so the batters have an advantage over the pitcher. I can't imagine robot's coming into play. That would really ruin the game wouldn't it? We need simplification to the game, all decision's made on the field of play. Four of the seven referees make the final decision on calls. All plays to be reviewed if necessary until the end of the game.
.

Great analysis! I watch many football newsreel from 50-75 years ago. The calls were straightforward and teams accepted the calls. Now I admit I see many plays in which the calls then would be challenged and overturned by today's standards. Why? Slow motion replay. AI assistance. As you say " technical. " And the other sports do the same.
Many of what were called fumbles back then would be incomplete today. Many a first down would be called short because replay can catch that small part of the body that touches first. Sideline plays could not be called to the accuracy of today. And I believe there were not exactly the same number of officials calling a game then as today. Even with the best refs in the game at the time they would have struggled to call the Fail Mary correctly. And try getting a FG attempt correct when you had very short uprights and sharp angles from wider hash marks. I would hate to be a ref in any era.

 

[SINROSSCO]

It sounds like you prefer how it's played today. I honestly don't like how it's played today because we rely too much on technology. As long as there is the human factor in the game i.e. the refs, and players I prefer it that may. As I said though, back in the day the human factor was there between both players and ref's. That human factor is being taken away by technology. If tech is to be used, then as I said it should be between the officials on the field not NY. I saw a piece not too long ago as well, in reference to thrown games and that sort of thing. I think with any change there is always that chance of corruption and in particular with the tech. How does betting play in all of it? How far do some of these betting sites go as far as placing a bet? Could they be changed while a decision is coming out of NY? Some of them have been gone or minutes then we would expect. Just saying.
I would just add, I am a big Nascar fan and play the fantasy games. I grew up next to a race track. Back in the day they ran heat races to advance to a semi and final race. I have always followed NASCAR but as time has gone on, I found that 500 and 600 lap races as boring. So, I wrote a letter to NASCAR asking that they consider how races were done back then. Well, surprise. They did change the format and have broken up the races now into segments. It wasn't exactly what I was looking for but it did put a different twist to the race. Racing too, just like football, to technical. To think one can win a race by change in tire pressure. That totally blows my mind. I think what has made it more interesting is that you might have the top guys in that first or second segment and thinking you are going to get the points for the top six drivers and then some of them decide to pit which puts them toward the back. You've lost points and so it becomes an issue as to whether they can come back to the front in that segment into the top ten. In each segment the top ten only get points and of course the race is all based on the points. As for the rules they all know them and some do violate them. There is a cost. They do have camera's a a flagman or announcer could not determine who the winner is without technology. I can definitely support it in this sport. It is not to say that my letter had anything to do with the change, perhaps it did, or maybe not, but they have made changes that all the fans can understand.

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

The cost of players is beyond comprehension.

That goes for basketball and baseball.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I am from the old school, I'm 82. Form me officiating has become too technical i.e.

I'm from the old school Lombardi days and 82. I didn't finish my post earlier. We forget that we are human and we all make mistakes. Has anyone seen a perfect game to this day? Obviously, we would think officials would be honest and I believe that most of them are. Back in the day prior to instant replay 99.9% of the time the officials did a good job. I recently saw a link of the most blown calls in the playoffs. When you listen to the official in the booth with the commentators it just goes to show how technical the game has become. It's become too complicated for anyone to come up with an honest ruling much less why they ruled the way they did. All calls should be made between the officials on the field, not in NY or wherever they go. There are seven officials on the field, certainly a majority of them should be able to make the call via instant replay provided them on the field.
They need to go back to simplification. On what is a catch, possession, spotting the ball i.e. where the runners body touches the ground, why not the ball? That is the rule in breaking the plain on the goal line. Why should that be any different? When a receiver stretches over the yard marker for a first down. Again, why isn't that applied on the field by runners? i.e. where is the ball compared to where the body touches. How about advancing a fumble? This is a game of tackle. Why should someone who recovers a fumble be down by a simple touch or the same with an interception? Again, it's a game of tackle, not touch. The Eagles favorite play, the tush push. Back in the day when I played you could not push a back or receiver from behind. Could that rule have been changed? I really don't think so, and shame of the refs for letting it happen. It's a horrible play. We got the same result in having the line set in breaking the huddle and go on a no count. It worked every time. Inside of adding more rules, they need to eliminate. Some of the rules changes for me are beyond stupid especially with the kick offs. They have taken one of the most exciting plays out of football, "The Kick off" That rule to me is applying to Sissie's. Girls in skirts. I believe a returner has a better chance under the old rule. The chance of a running back now becomes more difficult because other players are moved closer to him from the get go. What is the argument in changing? Don't see any difference in the injury factor. I think the premise should be the runner escaping all these other players from the other side, then eleven players ganging up on one runner. It's sort of lowering the pitcher's mound, so the batters have an advantage over the pitcher. I can't imagine robot's coming into play. That would really ruin the game wouldn't it? We need simplification to the game, all decision's made on the field of play. Four of the seven referees make the final decision on calls. All plays to be reviewed if necessary until the end of the game.
.

All interesting points. I'm 71 so not far behind you and I certainly remember the Lombardi Packers. Great years followed by a great drought followed by the current, 30-year run of winning football.

One thing I'm not crazy about is the ability to push a runner from behind. It's most famous incarnation is the tush push, but it seems like it happens on a lot of other plays, especially running plays.

Refs have become reluctant to blow the whistle "too early" - and I've seen runners stood up and stopped, only for officials to let the shoving continue, usually with the runner advancing another 3-5 yards from where he was stood up.

Eliminating pushes from behind would be hard to officiate because they are so common. A game would grind to a halt. If the refs simply whistled the play dead as soon as a runner is stood up, pushing would not be much of a probolem.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes. I was drafted and terrible at it.

My kid's BB coach and grade school AD was a HS official. Good enough to do the state tourneys. Anywho to calm overly loud and obnoxious parents he had a policy. Either you calm down / take a break in the commons or you will be on the court next week calling the action. (Usually the younger 3-4th grade games.) That isn't how I got drafted. Baseball and football leagues coaches reffed games they weren't involved in.

I would not want to be a ref at any level. Half of the crowd thinks you're right, the other half think you're wrong. No thanks. I do like your kid's BB coach and the policy of "calm down or do the job yourself". I bet that helped shut em up, sorta..........

 

[Heyjoe4]

It might just come to that. I think too with the politics coming into it, I have friends that no longer watch it. And, it shouldn't be there. People go to a game to get rid of
it for a while in their life. I used to fish a lot, and it was a time spent about catching the next fish only, no other distractions. Fishing night be a nice pass time for you. Your idea sort of goes hand in hand with a book that I am reading, full of good advice on the distractions in are life, i.e. the cell phone, lack of rest and sleep time. are life is to busy with everything, we need to take a rest. Over the years I have said, the fans should boycott the NFL. The cost of players is beyond comprehension. Joe Namath is the one to started all that business, and honestly for me, he wasn't worth it. I think then it was a 400,000 contract and that was without the sockings. lol

Yeah I remember Namath getting, at the time, an outrageous amount of money. But it was NYC and before the cap and "parity".

Life is just better withb fewer distractions. It has actually kept me very healthy at age 71. I'm in the gym everyday to work out - not to socialize and not to watch tv or doomscroll. I go into the gym every tine with a plan for what I'll do that day. Outside of pleasantries, I'm focused on my goal for the day.

That provides some solitude from all the noise that surrounds us. It keeps me sane - well, sort of.......

 

[Heyjoe4]

Great analysis! I watch many football newsreel from 50-75 years ago. The calls were straightforward and teams accepted the calls. Now I admit I see many plays in which the calls then would be challenged and overturned by today's standards. Why? Slow motion replay. AI assistance. As you say " technical. " And the other sports do the same.
Many of what were called fumbles back then would be incomplete today. Many a first down would be called short because replay can catch that small part of the body that touches first. Sideline plays could not be called to the accuracy of today. And I believe there were not exactly the same number of officials calling a game then as today. Even with the best refs in the game at the time they would have struggled to call the Fail Mary correctly. And try getting a FG attempt correct when you had very short uprights and sharp angles from wider hash marks. I would hate to be a ref in any era.

"I would hate to be a ref......." Agree 100%. Talk about a thankless job, from pee wee football to the pros and across all sports.

 

[SINROSSCO]

That goes for basketball and baseball.

Amen. Back in the day, they had to get a real job after football. I think then too it was viewed more as a sport then a profession in it.
I think now paying college players is going to create more issues.
How about players coming out of high school? Should they now get the shaft over those coming out of college?
I think it's time that sports be separated from education. Sorry schools, you'll have to find a better way to get your money.
Example. Becoming a race car driver has nothing to do with getting a college degree.
I believe it was in the 70's when you had guys in basketball leaving college early to join the pros, they failed and then felt that the world owed them
a living to send them back to college. Really?
Times have so changed and I'm not sure it's all for the right reasons.

 

[El Guapo]

Really? We have to be a (fill in the blank) before we can criticize one? Lots of real-world examples, but let's stick to the gridiron. I've never played pro ball, but I don't think I'm out of line to think or a dozen or so Packer things from the 2014 Seattle game that were undeniably wrong.

No, but I think that one should at least think about what it's like to be in their position. Would you or I make zero mistakes even with all of the training? Likely not. So the questions become 'What is an acceptable rate of mistakes for referees, and what is the acceptable +/- tolerance around that rate?'