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Rebuilding to Win Now - Good Piece !!!

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by WinnipegPackFan, Apr 12, 2006.

  1. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    Teams should rebuild to win now, not later
    Written by Rick Cina - PackerChatters Staff
    Wednesday, 12 April 2006

    When it comes to building a playoff team in the NFL, it has often been argued that adding upper tier, higher priced free agents in the off-season isn't the way to go, and that it's better to concentrate on building primarily through the draft. One of the stated reasons for concentrating on building a team step-by-step through the draft while de-emphasizing free agency is that those bigger name free agents should be used primarily to complete your team, or as the so-called “final piecesâ€
     
  2. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Exactly..!!!

    Excellent post...Winnipeg..!
     
  3. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    Wow Pack66 just agreed with Ted Thompson's philosphy! Everybody look he just agreed! This is exactly what TT is trying to do. He is bringing in mid level free agents to shore up spots of need and otherwise building through the draft.
     
  4. route25

    route25 Cheesehead

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    I just responded to this issue on another thread, and I won't repeat the whole thing here. However, I think that 2007 is the year the Packers should be shooting for as far as being a serious contender.
     
  5. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    SuperRat..


    Admit it...

    You just don't know what the **** TT's philosophy is now..do you?

    because it certainly is not what's stated in the original post...that is NOT what TT is trying to do...

    He primarily wants to build through the DRAFT!

    (maybe you are just confused...?)
     
  6. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    I don't think you read the whole piece before you bashed 66 SuperRat. Please read just one quote from the piece :

    Instead, teams should assume that they need to stock up with as much talent as possible now, in the event that the team could win the Super Bowl even this year. Instead of evincing a willingness to "throw away" a few seasons in anticipation of winning in 2008 or 2009, teams should meticulously concentrate on winning right now, in 2006.

    This is what 66, myself and others have been trying to explain !!!
     
  7. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    The article says the way to win is to sign a few mid level free agents and get players from the draft. It uses New England as a specific example and mentions unheralded veterans making an impact. Is that not what Ted is doing? He brought in a very solid free agent defensive tackle, a possible starting safety, he resigned some important running backs, and signed a wide reciever, and he is going to help it out more through the draft. He is also looking at signing two past pro bowlers. I fail to see how Ted Thompson is doing anything but what that article says should be done.
     
  8. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    I don't see any willingness to throw away a few years though. Thompson has been going after free agents in spots that need depth and he has been doing fairly well i think. It is impossible to tell how well though until the players take the field.
     
  9. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    So, now you are saying TT is rebuilding to win this year ? :roll:
     
  10. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    Perhaps I am being too optimistic but yes I am. Especially if he gets Arrington and either Woodson or Plummer. That shores up our biggest needs. We would still need more offensive guard help but like TT has said, with this new system they will be looking for castoffs from other teams that can fit into it, so I think that will be taken care of also.
     
  11. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    The reason for posting this piece is that there seems to be two very distinct lines of the thinking on the rebuilding process on this forum. This is where I see most of us getting caught up in the endless TT vs Brett debates.

    The line of thinking that I agree with is summarized in the below quote:


    "The slow, incremental building-phase philosophy that assumes that teams need to be patient with losing while the construction goes on seems out of date, if not mythological. Teams may be better off adding some good, solid free agent players to their rosters this year---even if they might be a bit too pricey---and then seeing what happens".

    We all want what's best for the Pack but we seem to be split on how this should be done, as does Brett and TT in my opinion !!!
     
  12. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    I also agree with that statement. To say that Ted Thompson hasn't been trying to add good, solid free agent players, I think, is incorrect. He has signed a solid DT and a solid Safety and a reciever that has good potential, and he is going for more with Arrington and Woodson/Plummer. While we may disagree about the amount of signings/potential impact players, we agree with the philosophy of winning right away.
     
  13. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    That's wonderful, but how is he throwing a 'few seasons' away? By not signing everyplayer you want?
    Just because the team is owned by the fans doesn't mean we get to decide who wears the uniform.

    Ted Thomspon is trying. Stop being so god awful negative an show that you're a FAN, not a fart :p
     
  14. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    Oh I am a fan Z2C, a Fan of :

    Green Bay, including the proud history of this team, the organization and the fans. I am a fan of Legends like Bart and Vince that were around before my time and a future Legend like Brett that is still with us now.

    TT is the GM. He has been here one year, and I will question him until I feel he has the Best Interests of the Green Bay Packers Image as well as it's future history in mind because I don't want my grand children asking me in a decade " If Brett was so good why did Green Bay let him go ?"

    I never asked for him to sign "everyone" but who the BLEEP has he really signed to make this team competitive for next year ? I have a hard time answering this but I don't have a hard time with providing you with a list of who we have lost so far and who we might lose next.

    That list of names is more important to me than being a fan of TT right now, so flame on !!!
     
  15. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Yes, I agree. Pack66 did agree with TT,me, Superrat and others. Its AMAZING!!!!!!

    That whole list is full of Mid-Level talent FA's. Notice on the list that they name the Free Agents as HELPING the true stars get to the Super Bowl.

    They do not say RAY LEWIS helped Siragusa get to a Super Bowl. In essence they brought in mid-level guys to help guys that could get it done. I think that is exactly what TT is doing, or at least trying to do.

    Lets not forget that some of those guys were not who they are today back then as well. You are familiar with the names because they were mid-level guys that became stars.

    I see alot of names absent from that list. Where is Randy Moss leading Oakland? Where is Bruce Smith and Washington? Where is Ricky Williams leading the Dolphins? Oh yeah, they never panned out.


    Anyways I am glad that you guys agree with TT's philosophy now and what we have been trying to tell you for the last 2 weeks.
     
  16. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    It is obvious that there are a couple of ways one might read this article, Let's agree to disagree !!!
     
  17. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Man..

    the way you guys "rationalize" things for TT is amazing...truly amazing....!

    One question: Why isn't TT trying to build an offense around Brett Favre...

    (It seems to me you're putting alot of faith in an untested, un-manned blocking scheme..rather in one of the NFL stars that has been the main reason for all of the team's success within the last 10 years...!)
     
  18. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    I fail to see how the new blocking scheme is untested. Two teams use the scheme. The Broncos and the Falcons. Both teams have had some of the best running games football in recent years. Our Offensive coordinator was in charge of one of those teams' blocking scheme that was so successful. He knows what he is doing, and they know what personel they need to make it work. It isn't a guaranteed thing but it shows great promise. I also fail to see how they are doing any wrong by Favre with the scheme. It is intended to help out the running game, which didn't work so well last year. A much improved running game takes pressure off Favre and opens up the passing game. As much as I like Favre, I don't like him throwing 40 times a game so we need a healthy ground attack.
     
  19. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Rat..

    I understand all of that...but isn't TT mortgaging the Packer present by doggedly sticking to such a scheme with the lack of player personnel in FA..??

    Shouldn't you have to be flexible in the NFL to succeed with the players you have...or don't have?

    What if..for instance...no team cuts the "type" of players that TT is looking for in this "zone blocking" scheme..are you going to then draft rookies and depend on them to pick it up and be able to start in their first year in the NFL? If so..how do you think they will do..they're rookies?

    And what if you do get the players that you think you are looking for and they don't pan out...or if they do..doesn't it take a few months...half a season for a new line to gel with a new blocking scheme...??

    This is why I think they should have signed Larry Allen in the interim as insurance..until they get all of this stuff worked out. We know HE can block and pass protect....

    We're just not too sure about this zone blocking thing yet...and I agree we need a healthy running attack...

    It just doesn't have to be all or nothing though...TT...

    there are other options...
     
  20. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    We have had success in linemen starting as rookies. Also it has been mentioned that Atlanta was thinking about drafting Coston I think because they thought he would fit their scheme, so that's a good sign. I agree it is somewhat of a risk but it has the potential to work out very well. Larry Allen has been very good but his best years are behind him. As for the line gelling with the new blocking scheme, we had the same problem with the normal scheme last year that lasted most of the season, so bringing in more new offensive guards, Larry Allen included, could contribute to that problem just as much.
     
  21. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Larry Allen sucks... quit bringin him up as TTs biggest missed FA. HEs 100 years old and fits into our new blocking scheme like a fat square peg in a round hole.
    why in gods name would you ever overpay a guy like larry allen to half *** shore up a line that will be shored up with guys that are used to eachother.
     
  22. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Yeah..

    Who would that be...?

    Who on the Packer o-line is used to each other..? Right now..there are two Tackles with no guards or center that are "used to each other"....

    Yeah...he sucks...only made the pro bowl like a million times and I would trust him to watch Favre's back..but he sucks..and TT's a friggin genious.....right?
     
  23. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    hes old and slow.... doesnt fit the new scheme period how hard is that to understand.... we want young, more mobile guards not space eating washed up guards
     
  24. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    Good comment, I agree, and thats how this offense will run

    Not many people are giving Junius Coston a chance, hurt last year, scouted by jags while in Atlanta, could play center or possibly guard.

    People, Look at Denver's offense--when they were at their best running the ball a few years ago, Dan Neil was a pro bowl guard and weighed in at about 280, so eliminate all the fatasses available on the free agent market, no Larry Allen wouldn't have fit, no Max Jean-Gilles or Deuce Lutui won't be effective in this scheme, just no
     
  25. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    To use another poster here's quote..

    "Where are we going to get these imaginary guards from. There are no good guards in FA"..?

    What are we going to...conjure them out of thin air?

    If these guards DON'T materialize....then what?

    You have to have a contingency plan....

    (What is so hard about this concept to understand..?)
     

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