Rebuild a new LaFleur offense or get what Pettine needs on defense?

[Favre>Rodgers259]

If defense wins championships the superbowl would be the Bears vs. the Ravens. The league has transitioned to high octane offenses. The Rams, Chiefs, Pats and Saints were all within the top 5 in total offense. There isn't really a great defense amongst those 4 teams.

You can quote me to a fault but looking at how both those games played out granted they did turn into shootouts in the 2nd half. The true defining moment was one team's ability to either get a stop or force a turnover so the offense could get back on the field and win the game. With out offensive struggles our defense kept us in a lot of games this year. Had we had the 2016-2017 defense however, we probably would have just been blown out.

 

[gopkrs]

But free agency boils down to Ingram (30 in April) Coleman (best a complimentary piece) and Yeldon (who the offensive coordinator will know a lot about). Maybe Yeldon has something to offer as a pass catching back, but I'm hesitant to sign the other two.

I don't know all who will be available. I was only saying that if we use free agency wisely; we will be able to address some needs and then won't have to worry so much about those positions in the draft. Then we will have more flexibility. I also think it will help us out to keep Breeland. And I would rather spend higher draft picks on O line than on RB.

 

[Mondio]

Nobody said pick lower rated players so I’m not sure who that’s in response to. I’ve been largely saying it’s likeky we go D pick #12 this year. We both are saying the same thing there.
But that’s not what I contested at all, I said IF we go D at #12 we’d hetter be prepared to hit the O with some major juice. Once we’re looking at #30 the “top” has already been taken off IMO. It’s time to focus on O needs. As far as this whole BAP slogan we’re holdinig onto so tightly. Let’s read into it s little here. ...
You do realize when the FO said BAP they didn’t mean run the team off a cliff. IMO they meant if there are several players waiting to get picked you go BAP lining up with your future needs. Let’s use our Common Sense here.. they expected us to when they made that comment not so literally. Your not going to take a Center Rated at 39 in round 2 when you gave a OT rated at 41. That’s be ridiculous.
As a dramatic example our GM wouldn’t go OG, OT, OG, OT, RB, RB, RB, OT, OG, RB, OG, jusf because when our number is up we have that player rated BAP higher. That would get you run out of this league.

There will be plenty of available Quality Offense comparable to the Defense going into day 2 trust me.
PS. How were we suppose to keep AR healthy exactly?? The whole reason he’s getting mauled is my argument we should stop ignoring the O in the first place. This is like banging my head against a wall.

I'm going to take away the genius designation I bestowed upon you just a week or so ago if you don't knock it off. I'm sure you've read enough of my posts to know i've said offensive line is in need of work. If you haven't, you should take a weekend and read all of my previous posts as i'm sure it would be a wonderful and fulfilling experience. and when I say pick your best rated players when it's your turn to pick I meant it. I don't care if it's offense or defense. My point the entire time has been we need to pick better players. We're at a point when previous draft picks should be rounding into shape, and most of them are all gone for all sorts of reasons. None of which matter anymore. We need better players, both sides of the ball. Period. I'm not advocating offense over defense or the other way around. This roster needs help, and personally, I think all top rated OL, DL, OLB,ILB, Safeties, DB's, need to all be gone before I'm really looking at WR before 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[AmishMafia]

Take whatever the draft brings us.

You want more points on the board at the end of the game and you do that by your offense scoring points and your defense preventing points. Equally important.

It shouldnt matter what positions you have drafted in the past. Players bust, happens every year to every team.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm going to take away the genius designation I bestowed upon you just a week or so ago if you don't knock it off. I'm sure you've read enough of my posts to know i've said offensive line is in need of work. If you haven't, you should take a weekend and read all of my previous posts as i'm sure it would be a wonderful and fulfilling experience. and when I say pick your best rated players when it's your turn to pick I meant it. I don't care if it's offense or defense. My point the entire time has been we need to pick better players. We're at a point when previous draft picks should be rounding into shape, and most of them are all gone for all sorts of reasons. None of which matter anymore. We need better players, both sides of the ball. Period. I'm not advocating offense over defense or the other way around. This roster needs help, and personally, I think all top rated OL, DL, OLB,ILB, Safeties, DB's, need to all be gone before I'm really looking at WR before 2nd or 3rd round.

And I respect that Mondio. We’re in agreement on OL. Im not as comfortable as you on Offense. We were largely disfunctional in the passing game compared to recent past years and our ceiling. Some of that was due to AR having a down year, some of that was injury related but much of it was rookies running around not knowing their assignment. They didnt have the experience to work the sideline and come back to the ball when Rodgers bought plenty of time. I believe even the casual spectator saw that.

We also lack a true tandem of RBs. WilliAms is a solid #3 and that’s not a slight on him, it takes a huge amount of talent and work to be s backup in this league. He’s a very good blocker also. But that said, we could use a multi dimensional RB that’s a threat in the short game. We tried to develop Eddie Lacy there but he had limitations and never fully grasped much past 2-3 yard dump passes and screens. He was a 10 gauge shotgun deluxe model with limited rounds, we need a 12 gauge with 8 in the chamber of versatility.

What I’m saying is this.. This O needs more than a solid O lineman or 2. We need the shield but we also need a few weapons to work with. We’re missing a piece or 2 and a couple of “dangerous” playmakers could open this O up. RB or WR idc. I’m not in the camp of so much GB pride that I can’t see our weaknesses. If we go in to 2019 without injecting more playmakers were in legitimate trouble of wasting another year of Rodgers prime. Hell we might already be past his prime, let’s start surrounding him with something better than 5th round rookies, his legs aren’t what they used to be.

PS. Please don’t take away the genius designation I appreciate it it’s the best compliment I’ve had in awhile and I thank you for it. I pray you’ll see one day that Differences in opinion don’t mean that we’re not smart or that we don’t love the game of football with the same passion or that it’s some attack on our fellow Packer brothers n sisters. I respect your viewpoint you sound intelligent, so Im gambling that you hear some truth in all of this. Who knows, I’ve changed my opinion before after debating topics it wouldn’t be the first time.

 

[brandon2348]

I'm going to take away the genius designation I bestowed upon you just a week or so ago if you don't knock it off. I'm sure you've read enough of my posts to know i've said offensive line is in need of work. If you haven't, you should take a weekend and read all of my previous posts as i'm sure it would be a wonderful and fulfilling experience. and when I say pick your best rated players when it's your turn to pick I meant it. I don't care if it's offense or defense. My point the entire time has been we need to pick better players. We're at a point when previous draft picks should be rounding into shape, and most of them are all gone for all sorts of reasons. None of which matter anymore. We need better players, both sides of the ball. Period. I'm not advocating offense over defense or the other way around. This roster needs help, and personally, I think all top rated OL, DL, OLB,ILB, Safeties, DB's, need to all be gone before I'm really looking at WR before 2nd or 3rd round.

That's the insanity I'm talking about right there. It's classic Ted Thompson square peg into round hole mentality as the game passes us by. It is completely cancerous and toxic to the growth of this team. The fact that someone would draft yet another DB right now in front of 1st round grade WR prospect is baffling to me.

Teams are reaching for QB's and drafting WR's and RB's in the first round now because the game "HAS CHANGED".

 

[Mondio]

That's the insanity I'm talking about right there. It's classic Ted Thompson square peg into round hole mentality as the game passes us by. It is completely cancerous and toxic to the growth of this team. The fact that someone would draft yet another DB right now in front of 1st round grade WR prospect is baffling to me.

Teams are reaching for QB's and drafting WR's and RB's in the first round now because the game "HAS CHANGED".

Yes, picking good players is pure insanity lol

Better to reach for a qb and running back LOL

Just think, we could trade both 1st rounders and reach for a QB that could lead us to 15 points a game like the Bears lol

 

[brandon2348]

Yes, picking good players is pure insanity lol

Better to reach for a qb and running back LOL

Just think, we could trade both 1st rounders and reach for a QB that could lead us to 15 points a game like the Bears lol

Nobody is talking about "reaching" for an offensive player. There are many offensive players with 1st round grades depending on who's board you look at so I don't understand the confusion. Also, the same people who want more offense in this draft have conceded picking defense at 12 so I am not sure what your talking about.

What the Packers have been doing if anything is "reaching for defensive players" in the past and the results prove that so I don't know what planet your coming from here.

As far as WR I dont see an issue with taking one in first round if Packers see one they Love that can help us "WIN". If the Packers draft a DB at 12 they need to just shut this whole operation down.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yes, picking good players is pure insanity lol

Better to reach for a qb and running back LOL

Just think, we could trade both 1st rounders and reach for a QB that could lead us to 15 points a game like the Bears lol

While that sounds funny. NE just drafted a day 1 RB and OT this year. Yes, both Offensive players. They’ve also drafted not 1 but 2 QBs in the last 5 years day 2 draft. I don’t understand why we can’t learn from the best
We can say whatever we want, but what we can’t say is that our strategy so far in GB had been (or is) better than that of the NE Patriots.

 

[GleefulGary]

While that sounds funny. NE just drafted a day 1 RB and OT this year. Yes, both Offensive players. They’ve also drafted not 1 but 2 QBs in the last 5 years day 2 draft. I don’t understand why we can’t learn from the best

Drafting a RB at the end of Rd 1 is different than in the early first.

Here's how I look at it:

I would take an OT early and often. I would've drafted Q. Nelson at any time last year. I love OL. They're a necessity for a good team.

I think in this particular draft, there are some OT's worthy of being drafted at 12. I don't think there are any RB's worth it. I don't think there are any WR's worth it. There might be a couple edges, there might be some iDL available that are worth it. That's the strength of this draft at the upper end, imo. I wouldn't pass on one of them to reach for a WR/RB. Where NE drafted Michel, he was arguably the top talent available. So that's fine! I just don't see a RB/WR where we are drafting at 12 that we could say that about.

Every drafts talents are different. Some heavy on offensive skills positions, some aren't. I personally think that in general, the best value for WR's is rds 2-4. Just my opion. Doesn't mean I wouldn't take a WR round 1, I just wouldn't where we are at 12. I would at 30 if the right guy is there. Just depends on the board.

 

[Mondio]

While that sounds funny. NE just drafted a RB and OT this year. Why is that so funny.

We’re either of those picks “reaches”. Someone just suggested reaching for RBs and QBs to catch up with the rest of the league because it has changed. That IS funny.

 

[OldSchool101]

We’re either of those picks “reaches”. Someone just suggested reaching for RBs and QBs to catch up with the rest of the league because it has changed. That IS funny.

Oh I see. I’m not suggesting reaching for anything on Offense.
If anything changes it’s likely we back up a bit to get another 2nd day pick. There will be plenty of talent in the teens and likely there will be a Defender that in many drafts would be easily top 5-10 that’s still hanging around pick #12-#17 or so.

I actually agree with your earlier assertion that there will be some great prospects at WR, TE OL or RB day 2. Another angle would be to trade back #30 into the early 2nd round (Similar to the K King trade) but only if we get an additional 3rd rounder.

 

[brandon2348]

We’re either of those picks “reaches”. Someone just suggested reaching for RBs and QBs to catch up with the rest of the league because it has changed. That IS funny.

Call it what you want Mondio. People cant even get 50 dollars for there Packer tickets to watch this **** show defense and picks they been doing.

Time to do something different.

 

[Mondio]

New GM, new head coach, almost entirely new staff, I’d say things are already different. But yes, let’s call the defense fixed because Randall, Rollins and Datine Jones were drafted LOL

You’re not listening to anything I’m saying anyway, why bother explaining it again?

 

[GleefulGary]

You’re not listening to anything I’m saying anyway, why bother explaining it again?

Welcome to a discussion with Brandon.

 

[brandon2348]

New GM, new head coach, almost entirely new staff, I’d say things are already different. But yes, let’s call the defense fixed because Randall, Rollins and Datine Jones were drafted LOL

You’re not listening to anything I’m saying anyway, why bother explaining it again?

Your actually not listening to what I'm saying.

The Packers have a lot of young "top talent" according to where they were picked to develop on defense. I thought we were such geniuses at developing? To just rinse and repeat over and over again is ridiculous and actually insane. At some point you gotta lay in the bed you made and make the best of it. That's where this defense is at with Rodgers being 35 like it or not.

So now that we can establish that and see what other successful teams are doing around the league we can now effectively address the problem. Drafting another DB isnt gonna fix ANYTHING!

We haven't drafted a receiver high since Devante so why not try it again? What's the worse thing that can happen? The defense is still gonna suck or be marginal.

 

[Pkrjones]

I thought we were such geniuses at developing?

To just rinse and repeat over and over again is ridiculous and actually insane. At some point you gotta lay in the bed you made and make the best of it.

We have 4 promising young, big, fast WR's new to the team in '18 (EQ, MVS, Kumerow, and Moore) that will have the benefit of a year of coaching, adaptation to the NFL life, and game experience. A high draft pick will either sit behind the above-mentioned 4 OR be forced onto the field where AR won't trust him and/or be glaring at him for misreading plays.

Both sides of the ball need energetic, young playmakers from this draft (my preferred order): OLB, OL (RG year 1, RT for 10 yrs after that), TE, S, WR/Returner (fastest, shiftiest guy still available - Greg Dortch?), DE, OLB, OG and then BPA for remaining picks.

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Hopefully Gute will fill-in problem areas in free agency, such as OLB, S, & RB. Plenty of cap-casualty vets will be out there still looking to play & get a ring with GB in '19!

 

[El Guapo]

Since our magical seasons of 2010 and 2011, the Packers have spent 16 of their 21 picks in the first three rounds on defensive players. In the last four drafts, Jason Spriggs and Ty Montgomery were the only offensive players taken in the top half of the draft versus ten defensive players. Let's be clear, beginning with the 2012 draft it was very apparent that we needed defensive talent. Unfortunately we only got five decent players out of those 16 picks. Nick Perry and Clinton-Dix were serviceable starters. Kenny Clark, Kevin King, and Jaire Alexander appear to be top round talents, but that's not enough success from the top end of our drafts.

I'm not sure the question is where you spend your dollars, versus making sure that you get value for each purchase. We ceased getting value for our picks and that is the death nail for a draft & develop strategy. Pick your top two or three needs and take BPA in the first three rounds in those positions, then fill in the gaps in Rounds 4-7.

 

[brandon2348]

L

We have 4 promising young, big, fast WR's new to the team in '18 (EQ, MVS, Kumerow, and Moore) that will have the benefit of a year of coaching, adaptation to the NFL life, and game experience. A high draft pick will either sit behind the above-mentioned 4 OR be forced onto the field where AR won't trust him and/or be glaring at him for misreading plays.

Both sides of the ball need energetic, young playmakers from this draft (my preferred order): OLB, OL (RG year 1, RT for 10 yrs after that), TE, S, WR/Returner (fastest, shiftiest guy still available - Greg Dortch?), DE, OLB, OG and then BPA for remaining picks.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Hopefully Gute will fill-in problem areas in free agency, such as OLB, S, & RB. Plenty of cap-casualty vets will be out there still looking to play & get a ring with GB in '19!

Dorch is fine but I'm tired of late round fliers as our bread and butter on offense. I'm not saying they never work but the percentages go way down. We haven't drafted a real receiving talent since Devante. The other guys we have are just okay. They are the types you would be happy to have as your backups but I don't see them leading us to a Super Bowl. We need to start adding some elite talent on offense and I'm not talking about a TE.

Teams are passing us left and right and we either need to get in the fast lane or just pull the hell over and shut the car down. If we invest in offensive talent now you got those guys locked up for 4-5 years on rookie deals and probably the rest of Rodgers career. Spend the cap $ patching up the D. The time is now.

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

Might help if our qb can throw to them without having to pass the super secret double Dutch password drills workouts just to have him toss it their way. Brady seems to do well with receivers no one has ever heard of, and does it year, after year and then no one ever hears from them again.

On a serious note, it usually takes a couple of years for receivers to get familiar with all the option routes, defensive calls and such, so that is why there are so few rookie receivers that are all pro in their first year.

No one gave a crap about Brooks, Driver, Freeman, Nelson, etc. etc. in their rookie years, and even in their second years. So just stop the rants. Give the young guys a chance to grow. There are many more pressing needs and let our new coach show what he has in store with these promising youngsters.

 

[brandon2348]

Might help if our qb can throw to them without having to pass the super secret double Dutch password drills workouts just to have him toss it their way. Brady seems to do well with receivers no one has ever heard of, and does it year, after year and then no one ever hears from them again.

On a serious note, it usually takes a couple of years for receivers to get familiar with all the option routes, defensive calls and such, so that is why there are so few rookie receivers that are all pro in their first year.

No one gave a crap about Brooks, Driver, Freeman, Nelson, etc. etc. in their rookie years, and even in their second years. So just stop the rants. Give the young guys a chance to grow. There are many more pressing needs and let our new coach show what he has in store with these promising youngsters.

The NE comparison doesn't work for me. They are almost always making trades and signing guys to come play receiver or TE and they usually have immediate success in there system. Also, Brady doesn't have to do near as much as Rodgers is asked. Finally, we don't have BB on our sidelines.

Rookies are coming in and playing and contributing now at all positions now more then ever. We just haven't seen it as much because we keep wasting all our top picks on DB's and do this yearly mind meld to trick ourselves into its gonna get better with just a few more top defensive picks.

Innovate or disintegrate.

 

[PackAttack12]

Drafting a RB at the end of Rd 1 is different than in the early first.

Here's how I look at it:

I would take an OT early and often. I would've drafted Q. Nelson at any time last year. I love OL. They're a necessity for a good team.

I think in this particular draft, there are some OT's worthy of being drafted at 12. I don't think there are any RB's worth it. I don't think there are any WR's worth it. There might be a couple edges, there might be some iDL available that are worth it. That's the strength of this draft at the upper end, imo. I wouldn't pass on one of them to reach for a WR/RB. Where NE drafted Michel, he was arguably the top talent available. So that's fine! I just don't see a RB/WR where we are drafting at 12 that we could say that about.

Every drafts talents are different. Some heavy on offensive skills positions, some aren't. I personally think that in general, the best value for WR's is rds 2-4. Just my opion. Doesn't mean I wouldn't take a WR round 1, I just wouldn't where we are at 12. I would at 30 if the right guy is there. Just depends on the board.

I'm totally cool with taking an OL if he's the BPA.

The older Rodgers gets, the more valuable OL talent is.

 

[scotscheese]

i don't think that the offense needs much of a rebuild, Aaron needs better protection, and is IMO the biggest need on the O. another proven vet WR would be handy, but the young guys acquitted themselves well last year, and i wouldn't want to hinder their progress, and after seeing several posts i would probably agree with another RB to bolster that position. fine tweaks not much of an overhaul IMO.

again the DEF is where i think we're weakest, but a lot of that was due to capers. the D looked a bit improved last season under Pettine. the balance of being able to have a good secondary and being good upfront will always be tough.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that we shouldn't concentrate on a NEW offense, or go all out for the D either. good additions to either side of the ball will benefit the team as a whole

 

[Deleted member 6794]

another proven vet WR would be handy, but the young guys acquitted themselves well last year, and i wouldn't want to hinder their progress, and after seeing several posts i would probably agree with another RB to bolster that position.

While MVS and EQ showed some promise as rookies Rodgers and the offense would definitely benefit by adding another veteran receiver next to Adams.

 

[scotscheese]

While MVS and EQ showed some promise as rookies Rodgers and the offense would definitely benefit by adding another veteran receiver next to Adams.

i get that, it's one of those situations where you don't want to hinder progress of good young players, but at the same time another vet receiver would probably make a big difference. these kind of things is why MLF gets paid the big bucks