Ranking 2018 Packer moves

[AmishMafia]

What are the moves that improved the Packers the most this offseason?

Here's my rankings. Post your own or dont if you think mine are perfectly brilliant and incitefull.


1. Pettine. I have plenty of posts deriding Capers. Players didn't seem to develop. They look good early and then wane. Players who were mediocre for us, leave and become All Pro. Miscommunication in our secondary at least a few plays per game. The last time I really liked a Capers game plan, was the loss to the Seahawks in the playoffs. Since then there have been 5 or 6 "WTF was he thinking?" Game plans. Pettine brings attitude, discipline and a clear vision. That is going a long way to improving this defense.

2. Gutekunst - I am a big TT fan, but it was time to move on. Not sure I like his FA moves, but they weren't bad. Thought he handled the draft like a champ. Like the gambles and moves he made. Will take a bit too see if the gambles paid off - but looks like we are in good hands.

3. Mo Wilkerson. He has been dominant early in his career, but still young. He has an attitude right now of proving people wrong. Helping him is having Daniels and Clark on the line as well. There should be some synergy going there and this trio can be our best we have had in a long time.

4. Graham. Rodgers being excited should make every Packer fan excited. I think we overpaid. But if that is what it took - so be it. Rodgers functions best having a great TE option. We are not getting him at the top of his game, sadly, that day is 2 years ago. But he will still represent a big improvement over what we have had. If he can stay healthy, he will be great in the red zone. Look for him to put up around 10 TDs.

5. Jaire Alexander. A CB that we really needed. Not only for his physical skills, but also he is going to bring some swagger to the secondary. This group is in need of some confidence and leadership. Look for him to infect the rest of the DBs with some excitement and attitude.

6. Josh Jackson. I think both Alexander and Jackson will be in the top 5 for rookie INTs. Both of these guys have the potential to create some big plays. I think both will see some significant playing time.

7. Tramon Williams. Very glad we got him at this point. Not just for his play on the field - but more for his veteran leadership to Alexander/Jackson/King. Tramon did it the right way, coming in as an UDFA and working his butt off. Great guy to have around for the youth to look up to.

 

[Mondio]

It's almost as if we share a brain at times. Be afraid.

 

[AmishMafia]

It's almost as if we share a brain at times. Be afraid.

I see I spelled insightful as inciteful. Was about to edit, then realized the latter may be more accurate.

 

[HardRightEdge]

5. Jaire Alexander. A CB that we really needed. Not only for his physical skills, but also he is going to bring some swagger to the secondary. This group is in need of some confidence and leadership. Look for him to infect the rest of the DBs with some excitement and attitude.

6. Josh Jackson. I think both Alexander and Jackson will be in the top 5 for rookie INTs. Both of these guys have the potential to create some big plays. I think both will see some significant playing time.

I have little doubt both these guys are perimeter corners. I'd like a do-over on King. Awuzie at nickel would have completed the set. Oh, yeah, you don't spend a #33 on a nickel corner. That bit of conventional wisdom is nonsense.

Maybe Williams can fill the nickel role, otherwise one of these rookies will be out of position.

 

[RRyder]

Best moves

1: Pettine- I think we all can agree it was time to move from Capers

2: Jackson Getting him in the 2nd is an absolute steal. Absolutely love this pick

3: Wilkerson- low risk/high reward guy and contract. Could pay huge dividends

Worst moves (in no particular order)

1: Graham- God I hate this contract. He'll help in certain situations but we're now paying 11 million for a big WR that even in a best case scenario won't produce close to what a WR should that's being paid 11 million

2: Burks- Just an absolute reach in the 3rd

3: complete lack of pass rush added- whether it was through the draft ,(could of added Sweat instead of Burks or Griffen later in the draft), or by getting an rotational guy in FA our pass rush was woefully neglected

Honorable mention: Fuller- While I wouldve loved to add him once the details were released the organization should've known pretty easily the Bears would match. Instead all Gute did was tie up a large chunk of the cap, in the middle of FA, on a restricted player we were never going to get with the contract that was offered

 

[Jerellh528]

I have little doubt both these guys are perimeter corners. I'd like a do-over on King. Awuzie at nickel would have completed the set. Oh, yeah, you don't spend a #33 on a nickel corner. That bit of conventional wisdom is nonsense.

Maybe Williams can fill the nickel role, otherwise one of these rookies will be out of position.

Why do you think Alexander would be out of position as our nickel

 

[AmishMafia]

I have little doubt both these guys are perimeter corners. I'd like a do-over on King. Awuzie at nickel would have completed the set. Oh, yeah, you don't spend a #33 on a nickel corner. That bit of conventional wisdom is nonsense.

Maybe Williams can fill the nickel role, otherwise one of these rookies will be out of position.

I like King, he really impressed me with his agressiveness. I think our starters are King and Tramon with Alexander on the slot. I think Alexander can play anywhere. That leaves JJ as the nickel with waters and pipkins off the bench. Should our 2 rookies struggle in camp, house will be kept. I like all our young players. Their are some diverse skills sets there that a clever DC should be able to exploit.

 

[Jerellh528]

I like King, he really impressed me with his agressiveness. I think our starters are King and Tramon with Alexander on the slot. I think Alexander can play anywhere. That leaves JJ as the nickel with waters and pipkins off the bench. Should our 2 rookies struggle in camp, house will be kept. I like all our young players. Their are some diverse skills sets there that a clever DC should be able to exploit.

So we only play 1 safety? I thought nickel was the slot in vast majority of lineups.

 

[AmishMafia]

So we only play 1 safety? I thought nickel was the slot in vast majority of lineups.

Nickle is 5th DB. Dime is 6th. I should have said dime probably. But 1 to 3 safeties and 2 to 4 CBs are all possibilities with the new DC. Expect to see variety depending on offensive matchups

 

[Jerellh528]

Nickle is 5th DB. Dime is 6th. I should have said dime probably. But 1 to 3 safeties and 2 to 4 CBs are all possibilities with the new DC. Expect to see variety depending on offensive matchups

Yeah that’s what I thought which was why I was questioning. Either way, Alexander can play any cb spot and thrive imo

 

[HardRightEdge]

I like King, he really impressed me with his agressiveness. I think our starters are King and Tramon with Alexander on the slot. I think Alexander can play anywhere. That leaves JJ as the nickel

Somehow you have 4 guys playing 3 positions.

King's Combine measurables have not shown up on the field. Frankly, I didn't see them on his college tape either other than jumping ability. He's not the twitchy player his 3 cone would suggest. For me, that's the first qualification to play on the perimeter assuming speed is adequate; the ability to react to the break or flip and run before the guy gets away. He's also mostly clueless in zone, which we may expect less of in the Petine defense, so he's got that going for him.

Yeah, I'm reading pundits putting Jackson in the slot, probably because of his 4.55 combine time. That was a blended 4.49 and 4.60. In the latter run, he got out of rhythm, probably streatching to better the first time. His field speed is closer to the 4.49, perfectly fine for the perimenter given he's twitchy and has excellent ball skills. Lots of upside here given his limited experience.

I see Alexander in the slot against the small waterbug slot receivers, but not a steady diet. His aggressiveness exceeds his size; he'll be less prone to injury on the perimeter. And with plenty of teams using a TE-like player out of the slot, the size matchup is prohibitive.

I could see moving these guys moved around for optimal matchups, but that's a high bar to climb even with vets let alone rookies. But if it's man D and things are kept simple it's a possibility. King, for example, might do fine against the bigger long striding WRs. I imagine Adams quick breaks beat him up in practice.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Nickle is 5th DB. Dime is 6th. I should have said dime probably. But 1 to 3 safeties and 2 to 4 CBs are all possibilities with the new DC. Expect to see variety depending on offensive matchups

Right, dime. The saftey roles don't go away if you plug a CB into one of them.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Why do you think Alexander would be out of position as our nickel

See above.

 

[Jerellh528]

See above.

Because he’s too small to play the slot? Meh, I disagree.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Best moves

1: Pettine- I think we all can agree it was time to move from Capers

2: Jackson Getting him in the 2nd is an absolute steal. Absolutely love this pick

3: Wilkerson- low risk/high reward guy and contract. Could pay huge dividends
Jone
Worst moves (in no particular order)

1: Graham- God I hate this contract. He'll help in certain situations but we're now paying 11 million for a big WR that even in a best case scenario won't produce close to what a WR should that's being paid 11 million

2: Burks- Just an absolute reach in the 3rd

3: complete lack of pass rush added- whether it was through the draft ,(could of added Sweat instead of Burks or Griffen later in the draft), or by getting an rotational guy in FA our pass rush was woefully neglected

Honorable mention: Fuller- While I wouldve loved to add him once the details were released the organization should've known pretty easily the Bears would match. Instead all Gute did was tie up a large chunk of the cap, in the middle of FA, on a restricted player we were never going to get with the contract that was offered

I'm not crazy about that Graham contract either.the

I believe Burks is a reach but I'll qualify that. First, if you look at the spotlight tape of Burks against Alabama, his run defense was dreadful. His anticipation is slow, angles are poor, he puts himself in position to be easily blocked, he overuns plays. As for the qualification, this was the first year he played ILB which may account for some of the above; before that he was a safety and an edge rusher with a smattering of inside play. Still and all, you'd have to conclude that being a 3-down ILB is a bar likely beyond his reach. He could prove of value as the dime backer or more snaps against teams at the low end of run emphasis; he shows the Combine speed on the field in the few instances where he runs with a receiver. Then there are special teams. That's not a lot for a third rounder. But for a team that has been perenially weak at the coverage backer position, we may end up being happy to have him even if he's expensive as a rotational and special teams player.

As for the pass rush, it would appear Wilkerson and a healthy Biegel are expected to provide some upgrade. I'm skeptical as well. Expecting Wilkerson to regain the dynamic of his youth after years of 80-90% snap counts is wishful thinking. Will he contribute in rotation? One would expect that. A game changer? Uh uh. Biegel, same. He should at least be upgrade over Fackrell as the first OLB/Edge off the bench. Maybe there'll be a Ahmad Brooks-like pickup as teams cut players as we move along, preferably somebody who doesn't have back issues or some other lingering injury.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Because he’s too small to play the slot? Meh, I disagree.

Like I said...some slot WRs yes, some slot WRs/TEs, no. From that position you also get mixed up in the inside run game. Look, Alexander's size together with his aggresiveness presents injury risk. He only took 300 snaps last year, for example. The perimeter is where he belongs.

"He plays bigger than he is", it is said. That's true. But he's only as big as he is when covering 6'5" TEs, and playing bigger than he is against a 220 lb. running back or a pulling guard is a risk.

I'm pretty sure they drafted Alexander to recreate what they got from Sam Shields: a guy who play on the island not requiring safety help, the woeful secnario we've been witness to these past couple of years. And he'll be better tackler in space than Shields.

 

[bigbubbatd]

You can dislike Burks the player but he wasn't a reach. I posted a while back in a different thread so I wont do it again but a lot of rankings had him going in the 3rd or early 4th. He was in many top 100 rankings. So you don't have to like him but calling him a reach isnt accurate

 

[Jerellh528]

You can dislike Burks the player but he wasn't a reach. I posted a while back in a different thread so I wont do it again but a lot of rankings had him going in the 3rd or early 4th. He was in many top 100 rankings. So you don't have to like him but calling him a reach isnt accurate

In my opinion, anything after the obvious
consensus top prospects or so nothing can be called a reach. All we can go off is what we see on the field, our own amateur opinions and where media tells us a guy should be taken. But we have zero clue how each of the 32 teams has these guys ranked and what’s goin on in their war rooms. Calling anyone a reach before they step on the field is prolly wrong.

 

[gbgary]

1. Pettine - someone different doing the yelling. that alone is good. will be hands on.
2. Gutekunst - he's also someone different. too soon to tell. i'm thinking he's a risk taker.
3. Mo Wilkerson - meh
4. Graham - good move. hope he's got at least two years left in him.
5. Jaire Alexander - highly rated, also highly needed. hope he's the real deal.
6. Josh Jackson - same as alexander. if so, we could be set for a while...if king improves and can stay on the field.
7. Tramon Williams - meh. hope we can get one more year out him while the rookies transition. experience with petine's system should help.
releasing jordy... (graham signing makes it a wash)
not signing burnett and handing the job to jones... (risky...could be dicey for a while but we'll see)
leaving the spot opposite adams to the best backup to survive camp... (baffling. the o needs to be as potent as possible, to make up for the d again this year, as that side of the ball will have the biggest learning curve and have many first and second year players starting)
maybe 10-6 if things go well.

 

[Jerellh528]

Like I said...some slot WRs yes, some slot WRs/TEs, no. From that position you also get mixed up in the inside run game. Look, Alexander's size together with his aggresiveness presents injury risk. He only took 300 snaps last year, for example. The perimeter is where he belongs.

"He plays bigger than he is", it is said. That's true. But he's only as big as he is when covering 6'5" TEs, and playing bigger than he is against a 220 lb. running back or a pulling guard is a risk.

I'm pretty sure they drafted Alexander to recreate what they got from Sam Shields: a guy who play on the island not requiring safety help, the woeful secnario we've been witness to these past couple of years. And he'll be better tackler in space than Shields.

Yeah I agree they prolly want in Alexander what they had in shields, but I don’t think his size would be a problem whatsoever in the slot, all the top slot cbs in the game are around his size Kendal fuller, Chris Harris jr, Patrick robsinson, Bobby McCain, tyrann mathieu, and the list goes on.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Honorable mention: Fuller- While I wouldve loved to add him once the details were released the organization should've known pretty easily the Bears would match. Instead all Gute did was tie up a large chunk of the cap, in the middle of FA, on a restricted player we were never going to get with the contract that was offered

From a cursory Google search:

- The first mention of the Graham signing was on March 13.

- The first mention of the Wilkerson signing was March 13.

- The first mention of the offer to Fuller was on March 16.

- The first mention of the Bears matching was on March 16.

Gutekunst, et. al. are evidently able to multi-task, and I don't think 24 hours put any slow in Gutekunsts roll. Given the draft outcome, one would surmise they had other disucssions with other CB agents before the Fuller offer, but came away dissatisfied with performance-per-dollar or $ relative to injury history or $ relative to age.

In any case, the Fuller offer was pretty generous at $14 mil per year, only $1 mil shy of Norman's $15 mil at the top of the list. I don't think it was a slam dunk the Bears would match.

 

[AmishMafia]

In any case, the Fuller offer was pretty generous at $14 mil per year, only $1 mil shy of Norman's $15 mil at the top of the list. I don't think it was a slam dunk the Bears would match.

What is strange about the whole thing is the Bears let it out that they were planning on matching any offer. That only encourages any team trying to sign Fuller, to up the price. Maybe they thought other teams wouldn't bother? The thing is, the more the Bears pay, the better for the Packers. It was probably a very interesting discussion when the Packers came up with their dollar amount.

 

[HardRightEdge]

What is strange about the whole thing is the Bears let it out that they were planning on matching any offer. That only encourages any team itrying to sign Fuller, to up the price. Maybe they thought other teams wouldn't bother? The thing is, the more the Bears pay, the better for the Packers. It was probably a very interesting discussion when the Packers came up with their dollarWith amount.

If you're suggesting the Packers made a generous offer to force the Bears to pay more than otherwise, I seriously doubt that.

The Bears making that statement was intended to disourage offers; they obviously would not want to get other teams to up the price if that was they're intent to match any offer. Yes, they thought other teams wouldn't bother. They were 29/31 correct.

The point being, the Packers (or Chiefs) wouldn't know why the Bears would make such a peculiar statement. Maybe they were lying and trying to get the Packers to overpay! What if somebody made a stupid-rich offer? Everybody has their limits.

Two teams put in an offer they were willing to pay, and I wouldn't look past that fact. The Bears may have blanched.

Here's a "what if" to contemplate: if Fuller was a Packer, what would the draft have looked like? Quite a bit different after the 1st. round I would think.

 

[RRyder]

From a cursory Google search:

- The first mention of the Graham signing was on March 13.

- The first mention of the Wilkerson signing was March 13.

- The first mention of the offer to Fuller was on March 16.

- The first mention of the Bears matching was on March 16.

Gutekunst, et. al. are evidently able to multi-task, and I don't think 24 hours put any slow in Gutekunsts roll. Given the draft outcome, one would surmise they had other disucssions with other CB agents before the Fuller offer, but came away dissatisfied with performance-per-dollar or $ relative to injury history or $ relative to age.

In any case, the Fuller offer was pretty generous at $14 mil per year, only $1 mil shy of Norman's $15 mil at the top of the list. I don't think it was a slam dunk the Bears would match.

The Bears came out right away and said it would be matched. They didn't actually do it until they reached the deadline and as such the Packers had the cap space tied up for that time.

Also the contract is only a few more million this coming season then they were ALREADY on the hook to pay him and it's a very easy contract to get out of after two years.

There was little to no chance the Bears wouldn't match this given their cap situation.

At worst cap space was tied up for a significant amount of time in the middle of FA on a player we weren't going to get. At best it was a complete waste of time

 

[HardRightEdge]

The Bears came out right away and said it would be matched. They didn't actually do it until they reached the deadline and as such the Packers had the cap space tied up for that time.

Also the contract is only a few more million this coming season then they were ALREADY on the hook to pay him and it's a very easy contract to get out of after two years.

There was little to no chance the Bears wouldn't match this given their cap situation.

At worst cap space was tied up for a significant amount of time in the middle of FA on a player we weren't going to get. At best it was a complete waste of time

You assume the Packers were sitting on this cap for an extended time, waiting to spring the contract offer at some opportune time, without exploring other options.

I find this highly implausible.