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Randy Moss...maybe Favre was right to want him

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by bfavre74, Jun 6, 2010.

  1. bfavre74

    bfavre74 Cheesehead

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    I'm not a huge Moss fan, but these are some compelling stats. He would have looked good in green and gold

    (From nflstatanalysis .net - remove the space)

    "
    I haven't seen any recent NFL Lines for the 2010 season. But, I'm willing to bet that Moss's presence factors greatly into the final odds placed on the Pats' chances to hoist the Lombardi trophy.


    Here are some facts to chew on:
    • Moss has 148 TDs in 12 years. That's second only to Jerry Rice - who owns the record with 197 TD catches. Unlike Rice, Moss probably won't play 20 years, but he’s very close to Rice’s pace (154 through 12 years) at the same point in his career.
    • Moss has 14,465 yards. Hall of Famer Michael Irvin had 11,904 in his 12 year career. Oh...and Irvin had 65 TDs......less than half of Moss's total.
    (Rice had over 17,600 yards at the same point in his career).
    • Most WRs blossom in their 3rd year and look completely lost as rookies. In his rookie season, Moss had 1,300 yards and 17 TDs. Rice had 900 yards and 3 TDs. Irvin 650/5; Harrison 800/8; Chad Johnson 300/1.
    • The only rookie who came close in recent years was, believe it or not, Terry Glenn with 1100 yards and 6 TDs.
    • In 1999, after getting absolutely torched by Moss in his rookie year the Green Bay Packers selected defensive backs in the 1st 3 rounds and another in the 7th. Think about that, they went into the 1999 draft with the specific intention of finding a way to stop Randy Moss - who was a rookie the year before!!!!!

    The common belief is that a wide receiver is only as good as the quarterback throwing him the ball. While that's typically true, the most impressive piece of Moss's resume is how much better he has made each of his quarterbacks.

    In hindsight, Brady's incredible season in 2007 seemed almost inevitable when you combined one of the best QBs of all time with Moss' incredible talents.

    Here's a comparison of some of Moss' QBs throughout his career and their average stats with him and without him.


    Per Game Key QB Statistics With Moss vs. Without Moss
    Player With Moss Without Moss
    Seasons Yards TDs Y/A Seasons Yards TDs Y/A
    Randall Cunningham 11 215.4 1.5 6.9 1 264.6 2.4 8.7
    Jeff George 6 217.4 1.2 6.8 1 281.6 2.3 8.6
    Daunte Culpepper 5 179.0 0.6 6.9 5 255.0 1.8 7.8
    Tom Brady 6 229.0 1.6 7.0 3 281.2 2.4 8.0


    Difference Per Game in Key QB Statistics With Moss MINUS Without Moss
    Player Yards TDs Y/A
    Randall Cunningham 49.2 1.0 1.9
    Jeff George 64.2 1.2 1.8
    Daunte Culpepper 76.0 1.2 0.9
    Tom Brady 52.2 0.8 1.0

    The numbers are fairly telling. Each player's yards per attempt - the statistic that most closely correlates to points scored - jumped dramatically.


    A few other facts about the QBs that have played with Moss

    •Of the 4 qbs, only Jeff George did not break his career high in TD passes when he played with Moss. And that's because he only started 10 games - projected out over 16 games he would have crushed his career high. •Brady was an outstanding player before Moss and you can't attribute all of the jump in his numbers to Moss. However, In Brady's two full seasons with Moss, he has throw for 4,806 and 4,398 yards. The top two outputs of his career.
    •He has thrown for 50 TDs (an N.F.L. record - and his highest total by 22TDs) and 28TDs - tied for his second highest career total.
    •Cunningham broke his career high for TD passes by four in his one season with Moss.
    •Culpepper had 19 more TD passes in 2004 - his last year with Moss - than he has had in the five years since.....combined.
    •Playing in place of an injured Tom Brady in 1998, Matt Cassel threw for almost 3,700 yards and had almost a 2:1 TD to Int ratio.
    •In his one year in KC without Moss, Cassel threw for 700 fewer yards, had a 1:1 TD to Int ratio, and averaged 1.3 fewer yards per attempt (7.2 vs 5.9).

    There are a few obvious caveats to the results of this analysis:

    1.I'm not including the Raiders years. There are a few reasons for that.
    First, three different quarterbacks started at least eight games during his two years there. This made it difficult to tease out their production.
    Secondly (and more imprtantly) Moss looked like a shell of himself during those years. Obviously, this waters down the results of his body of work. However, when Peter King named him a starter on his all-decade team, he wrote the following:
    "Message to Moss: I am not happy, not at all, with your dog act in Oakland in 2006. It was petulant. But you've been such a great player for so long, and you continue to be a deep threat in your 12th season, and if you stay healthy and interested another four years playing with Tom Brady, you just might threaten Jerry Rice's all-time record of 208 touchdowns. Moss has to be here."I don't feel right simply ignoring those two years. But, at the same time, he was such a dominating player outside of those two years that you almost have to give him.........not quite a pass......but, maybe a mulligan?
    2.You can place extenuating circumstances with almost any of these statistics.








    ◦Culpepper got hurt soon after Moss left.
    ◦Moss had Cris Carter on the other side taking the pressure off in Minnesota
    ◦Ditto Wes Welker in New England

    But, the extenuating circumstances become weaker once you start to see that the common denominator is Moss.
    "
     
  2. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Great stats. How many teams have won a Championship with Moss?

    BTW, Favre is a Viking.
     
  3. armand34

    armand34 Cheesehead

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    what if the sky was green & gold?
     
  4. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    It is green and gold--haven't you ever seen the northern lights, or a sunset?
     
  5. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    Can you really blame Moss for having to spend most of his career in Minnesota and Oakland?

    If this was a QB, that argument would be valid. But a great WR can't get his team to a Super Bowl without help.
     
  6. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Even the great QBs have trouble getting a Championship--Marino the best example. I'm hoping The Interceptor becomes a GM after his player-coach job with the Yikes is over--and hopefully with his favorite team. I suspect he'd be a complete failure at it.
     
  7. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I strongly believe we would have beat the Giants with Randy. Its my biggest complaint on TT
     
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    As soon as Marino reached the playoffs he started playing like Jamarcus Russell
     
  9. fataldrummer

    fataldrummer Cheesehead

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    The Packers have one of the deepest receiving corps in the NFL roght now, we don't need Moss
     
  10. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Whatever the reason, you can add Sonny Jurgenson, Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, Kenny Anderson, Fran Tarkenton, Charley Connerly, Ron Jaworski, Jim Plunkett, Jack Kemp, Joe Theisemann, Daryl Lamonica, etc. to the list of good QBs that never won a Championship. Then there are QBs like Trent Dilfer who have won one.

    It's still a team game.

    Getting back to Moss, he had this to say at the time: "my whole career I have been taken out of context sometimes, but at the end of the day all I wanted to do was win games. ...I didn’t really feel they wanted me. I felt that Brett Favre wanted me, but I didn’t really feel the Packers wanted me.” (Pack missed first pass at Moss - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com)

    I bet the Raiders have another take on his attitude, even if it's hard to side with Al Davis on much.

    In hindsight, it seems to me The Interceptor had already made up his mind that he wanted out of Green Bay since his pet coach had been replaced, the new coach expected him to practice with the team, and the GM was not listening to his personnel wishes. Amazing that anyone would question such a genius.
     
  11. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    That's a great logic. Except he went to a SB, had 5 catches for 62 yards and a TD...

    While it wasn't bad, he didn't help them win. Welker had 11 for 100+ yards.
     
  12. dude

    dude Cheesehead

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    Of course Favre wanted Randy Moss. He wanted more talent on the team so he could win. We all want to win, but Brett is a bit of a win-whore where how you win, or who you win with is not all that important.

    Really, the only thing against Moss was his personal insults to Packer nation. The wipe his *** on the goalpost was so childish, vulgar, and offensive that there is really no way he could have ever come to GB and Brett should have known that, and let it go as soon as he gave it two seconds of thought. Would he want his daughter to go out with someone who called his wife a whore? Doubt it.
     
  13. DergaSmash

    DergaSmash Cheesehead

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    Exactly. Moss has great ability but he is a piece of sh*t. Big time. He has also shown that he isn't going to stop being like that. Its one thing to bring a young misguided player to a team and hope that your vets can help mentor him and get him squared away. Its a totally different thing when you bring in a guy like Moss who many of the younger players look up too. The scariest part about the whole if Moss came to GB thing is the fact that Jennings, Jones, and Nelson would all be looking to Moss for advice. Yikes.
     
  14. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    More to do with Brady being harassed by the Giants stellar d-line than it is to do with Moss. Moss runs deeper routes most of the time and Brady didn't have a lot of time to let plays develop that day. That's why Welker had such a good day, because he's the underneath receiver.

    And he had a TD in a low scoring game (17-14), so he certainly helped.
     
  15. TheGiftedApe

    TheGiftedApe TheGiftedApe

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    and it would be great if we could have ladanian tomlinson and Ray Lewis in their prime too.........
     

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