Randall Cobb is...

[Dantés]

My issue isn't as much with Adams as it is with the way TT does things. Is Adams talented? Yes. But not $10M talented. Had he or Cobb been on any other team, the production presumably would have been lower, as would their value on the free market. But a year or two of good production with an excellent QB seems to warrant the pay of a great player, which is not a good business model, IMO. You pay for talent, not the presumed value due to a very favorable situation which results in inflated production numbers.

I'm beating a dead horse, but I'd much prefer the way NE does things, by taking cheap, talented players whose production suffered due to crowded rosters or poor personnel decisions on their previous teams. They ultimately end up with guys who outperform their contracts. You may think the guys who I listed "aren't on Adams' level", but most, if not all could bring at least 90% of the production of Adams, which would be perfectly fine if they cost much less than what Adams would. Rishard Matthews and Eric Decker both went to the Titans, and make less combined than what Cobb does, despite outperforming him (2016 for Matthews, and 2015 for Decker's last full season). I know who I would rather have.

Martellus Bennett was an excellent pickup, all around. But it is difficult to justify the amount of money that would go into our WR/TE corp if we were to pay Adams the big bucks. He has more years left in him than some of the players who I mentioned, but the number of years Rodgers has left in him is more of my concern. There are wiser ways to spend the money than throwing another $10M at a WR just because you don't want to go into FA and really have nothing else to spend it on.

I'm not saying that Adams should get a top of the market contract like Cobb got. I'm just saying that 5M is ridiculous. But I also think fans need to match their expectations to the 2017 cap rather than 2014.

People are too hung up, in my opinion, with how much money would be tied up in the weapons for a brief period of time. Cobb has one or two years left on this team. Nelson's future is up in the air at his age. If TT doesn't pay Adams, Cobb leaves, and Jordy drops off, the same fans lamenting too much cap space in the WR corps would be calling for his head for not keeping some good, young weapons around. You can't waste Rodgers' last stretch of elite play by letting his best pass catchers leave.

Side note: given enough time, every thread on this form will devolve into complaints that TT is not BB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Farther down as in #2? I could see Adams topping Cobb's numbers this year but but right now I'd still say Cobb is our second best receiver.

Adams already topped Cobb´s numbers in every major category last season.

Cobb has not been playing all that well for some time (granted, due to injury at least partly) and Nelson is both getting old and stack´re ing up major injuries. For Cobb to merit a roster spot, he must either step up his production or his cost must come down. Otherwise the pure mathematics of the business insist he must be cut. If Cobb does not bring up his game or his price does not come down we will be losing him.

While I definitely agree that it would be smart to restructure Cobb´s contract the Packers front office has been extremely hesitant approaching players under contract about such a move.

The impending losses of Cobb and Nelson in the not too distant future underscores for me the importance of extending Adams.

In my opinion it´s far from a given that Cobb´s loss is impending. You´re right that Adams should be extended as soon as possible though.

Even if they give Nelson a 3rd contract, they need two more guys.

FWIW Nelson has already signed three contracts with the Packers.

I also tend to think that Adams gets his second contract, and that they don't skimp. I think he will be easily within the top 15 paid WRs with his next contract, and probably in the top 10 if this year is a reasonable build off of last year. I think that it probably ranges somewhere around 12 million a year over the course of 5 years - well into his mid/late 20s - and that they look to renegotiate at 4.

The Packers should absolutely retain Adams past this season but there´s no reason at all to make him one of the 10 or 15 highest paid receivers in the league, especially with him not even being the #1 on the team´s depth chart.

I like Adams, but having 3 WR's on big contracts eats a good portion of the cap, leaving you with less to spend on other positions of greater need.

I would prefer Thompson to extend Adams early this season and restructure Cobb´s contract but with the team currently having enough cap space and only a short list of core free agents to re-sign in 2018 it might work having three expensive receivers on the roster.

 

[gbgary]

My personal opinion on Cobb is that his decline is more due to the erosion of his ability than his usage in the offense.

i disagree here. lets see...two years ago he was the only guy other teams really had to defend so it was easy to limit his production. jordy was gone. jones helped for a few games but tailed off. the others were rookies, hurt, or both. last year jordy was back, but at his best he was only 90%. everyone else was available and contributed greatly which limited cobb some. mm's personnel packages limit everyone's touches. still he had a good year. i don't think his skills have diminished one bit.

 

[Dantés]

i disagree here. lets see...two years ago he was the only guy other teams really had to defend so it was easy to limit his production. jordy was gone. jones helped for a few games but tailed off. the others were rookies, hurt, or both. last year jordy was back, but at his best he was only 90%. everyone else was available and contributed greatly which limited cobb some. mm's personnel packages limit everyone's touches. still he had a good year. i don't think his skills have diminished one bit.

So if Cobb is the best option out there, that's an excuse, but if he has a great group around him, that's also an excuse?

I'm not saying he's bad, but to my eye he has clearly declined. It's not the total volume of yardage and receptions, but the reduction in his efficiency. He doesn't break the big plays like he did at one time-- hence my opinion that his athletic ability has eroded.

I would also point out that if he really was the only good option in 2015, it's weird that he didn't lead the WR group in yards or touchdowns.

 

[mongoosev]

.....playing great today

 

[Patriotplayer90]

.....playing great today

2 catches, 4.5 YPC?

 

[Dblbogey]

Gutsy quality player. Small and seems beat up most of the time. He's not worth his salary but nothing you can do. I'd use him as the punt returner as well, he's very reliable.

 

[Dblbogey]

Yeah, you were wrong there too.
About $9.5m cash each of the next 2 years. $8.6m base salary with the rest bonuses. $6.5m dead cap this year drops to $3.25m next season, (they don't add together.)

In other words, they can cut him after the season, save 6+ million in cap space? I'd like that - use the money towards Adams.

 

[Dblbogey]

Wow. I couldn't just sit here and lurk while people bash Cobb. Yes his production has gone down, mainly due to injuries, but Cobb plays such an important role in our offense. Cobb is a top 3 slot receiver in the game. With our new TE depth, Cobb will be even more valuable. No way I'd get rid of Cobb. He's worth every dollar.

He's been hurt a lot and never breaks a tackle. I like him too, but he's overpaid based on performance during his contract.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He's not worth his salary but nothing you can do.

Thompson could try to restructure his contract.

In other words, they can cut him after the season, save 6+ million in cap space? I'd like that - use the money towards Adams.

The Packers would save $6.15 million in cap space by releasing or trading Cobb before the start of the 2017 season. That number increases to $9.5 million next offseason.

 

[tynimiller]

Thompson could try to restructure his contract.



The Packers would save $6.15 million in cap space by releasing or trading Cobb before the start of the 2017 season. That number increases to $9.5 million next offseason.

And as far as any of us know restructure may have been or will be attempted. Not typically something the outside hears about until it happens.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And as far as any of us know restructure may have been or will be attempted. Not typically something the outside hears about until it happens.

While it's entirely possible that Thompson approached Cobb about restructuring his contract the only thing that matters is that he's still overpaid.

 

[tynimiller]

100% agreed....and in all honesty depending how comfortable they are with the future I'd entertaining a trade or cut. But I feel team must do this with ARs blessing..

 

[Pkrjones]

Just throwing this out there with the recent news of Anquan Boldin retiring from Buffalo and leaving them with a veteran-leadership (and WR talent) void... think a trade of Cobb & a 3rd rounder in '18 for Shaq Lawson would be considered fair?

I love Cobb and his effort and willingness to do whatever the team asks of him, but this type of trade would bolster the D as well as allow (more easily) keeping Adams in GB. There are others to pick-up the short/intermediate passing game production (Bennett, Kendricks, McCaffrey, Allison, ???).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While it's entirely possible that Thompson approached Cobb about restructuring his contract the only thing that matters is that he's still overpaid.

A few of us have been kicking the idea of restructuring Cobb as well as some of us have said the same should happen with Clay. I am trying to remember the last time a Packer player was restructured for less money than he was currently set to be paid. You see the reverse happen when a player is on a rookie or lower end contract and deserves more, they get a restructured deal for more money.

How often has it happened in the NFL in general?

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Just throwing this out there with the recent news of Anquan Boldin retiring from Buffalo and leaving them with a veteran-leadership (and WR talent) void... think a trade of Cobb & a 3rd rounder in '18 for Shaq Lawson would be considered fair?

I love Cobb and his effort and willingness to do whatever the team asks of him, but this type of trade would bolster the D as well as allow (more easily) keeping Adams in GB. There are others to pick-up the short/intermediate passing game production (Bennett, Kendricks, McCaffrey, Allison, ???).

Do you mean us giving Cobb and a 3rd rounder for Lawson?

 

[gopkrs]

Sometimes I wonder if some of you guys realize the season is about to start.

 

[Dantés]

Just throwing this out there with the recent news of Anquan Boldin retiring from Buffalo and leaving them with a veteran-leadership (and WR talent) void... think a trade of Cobb & a 3rd rounder in '18 for Shaq Lawson would be considered fair?

I love Cobb and his effort and willingness to do whatever the team asks of him, but this type of trade would bolster the D as well as allow (more easily) keeping Adams in GB. There are others to pick-up the short/intermediate passing game production (Bennett, Kendricks, McCaffrey, Allison, ???).

It's a good thought.

It seems pretty clear to me that the Bills are sort of punting on this season. They dealt their best corner and receiver for picks. So I almost wonder if they would be more inclined to deal the more expensive and older Jerry Hughes rather than Shaq Lawson. I would personally love to acquire Hughes. However, I'm not sure Cobb would be their target, as he is a slot and they just traded for Matthews who is also a slot almost exclusively.

 

[gbgary]

So if Cobb is the best option out there, that's an excuse, but if he has a great group around him, that's also an excuse?

I'm not saying he's bad, but to my eye he has clearly declined. It's not the total volume of yardage and receptions, but the reduction in his efficiency. He doesn't break the big plays like he did at one time-- hence my opinion that his athletic ability has eroded.

I would also point out that if he really was the only good option in 2015, it's weird that he didn't lead the WR group in yards or touchdowns.

he lead the WRs in targets, catches, and % by a wide margin. he was basically their only option. and "excuse" isn't the right word imo. i'd use the word 'reason.'

he's not a number 1. at his best he's a tweener 2-3. slot is his best spot. he's not slower, his hands are great, he's a great route runner, and more importantly, in the Packers system, a great reader of defenses. jordy is better, adams is better (maybe. he's certainly different), and then there's cobb. cobb's better than everyone left. why would anyone want him gone and the team to be less talented? LESS!

what we, and the Packers, want is the best players playing. so he's starting this year! the money is irrelevant when you're talking best players playing.

 

[gopkrs]

All this talk of trading Cobb is irrelevant and ridiculous.

 

[PikeBadger]

A few of us have been kicking the idea of restructuring Cobb as well as some of us have said the same should happen with Clay. I am trying to remember the last time a Packer player was restructured for less money than he was currently set to be paid. You see the reverse happen when a player is on a rookie or lower end contract and deserves more, they get a restructured deal for more money.

How often has it happened in the NFL in general?

Generally only happens when teams are having problems with the salary cap.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

All this talk of trading Cobb is irrelevant and ridiculous.

So? The entire game is irrelevant and ridiculous when taken cognitively in context. I mean, there are literally little children starving to death while we waste literally billions of man hours on grown men fighting over a ball. Where do you draw the line on what is and is not an irrelevant and ridiculous topic to discuss?

 

[PackAttack12]

So? The entire game is irrelevant and ridiculous when taken cognitively in context. I mean, there are literally little children starving to death while we waste literally billions of man hours on grown men fighting over a ball. Where do you draw the line on what is and is not an irrelevant and ridiculous topic to discuss?

Laaawwwdhamercyyyy.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Laaawwwdhamercyyyy.

For real, though. I love the game as much as we all do, but to say that discussing the future path of one of our players is "irrelevant and ridiculous" is kind of hilarious.

 

[Dantés]

he lead the WRs in targets, catches, and % by a wide margin. he was basically their only option. and "excuse" isn't the right word imo. i'd use the word 'reason.'

he's not a number 1. at his best he's a tweener 2-3. slot is his best spot. he's not slower, his hands are great, he's a great route runner, and more importantly, in the Packers system, a great reader of defenses. jordy is better, adams is better (maybe. he's certainly different), and then there's cobb. cobb's better than everyone left. why would anyone want him gone and the team to be less talented? LESS!

what we, and the Packers, want is the best players playing. so he's starting this year! the money is irrelevant when you're talking best players playing.

A couple things.

While I do absolutely think that his abilities are diminished from his peak-- i.e. speed, quickness, explosiveness, etc.-- I am not saying he's bad or denying that, right now, he's the 3rd best wide receiver on the team. But at his best in 2013-14, he was averaging over 14 yards per catch and a TD every 7.6 catches. Since that time, his YPR has dropped under 10.5 and he's scoring every 13.9 catches. I believe those stats are illustrative of what I actually see on the field, a guy who just isn't as dynamic as he once was. I don't think you explain away a 4 yard drop in YPR and his TD % virtually being cut in half. And I don't think this should be all that surprising. Despite perceptions to the contrary, Cobb was never a stellar athlete by NFL standards. Coming out of Kentucky, he was well below average in just about every measurable other than the forty, despite only being 191 lbs. It doesn't take a whole lot for those guys to drop off a bit.

Secondly, I have never said I simply want him gone. If he could be traded for something that would improve the team elsewhere, that would be great (though that's super unlikely to happen). That wouldn't leave the team less talented, just differently talented. It would also potentially address a weakness while opening up room to keep an extra young receiver, as the Packers currently have more guys worth rostering there than they have room for. However, if he can't be moved I don't want him anywhere but on the roster. Some have said that they don't see an Adams extension happening because of all the money tied up in Nelson and Cobb. My response to that is, if the FO really sees it that way, cut Cobb and keep Adams, the younger and better player. However, I've also said repeatedly that I don't think you have to cut Cobb to keep Adams. They have the space to keep all three, and the contracts would not overlap for very long.

In short, I think you're mistaking me saying that I think Cobb has declined with saying that I just want him out the door.